Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

2009 State of the Game Observations

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Judge support should, just like prices, be adjusted to player base...

We had one small State Championship with 1 or 2 Judges who basically had nothing to do and earned a box each (not sure how much exactly but something along these lines) and then we had a giant state championship with 4 or 5 judges wo worked harded all day under pretty chaotic conditions and a lot of players, just to split the same judge support that the 2 judges got for judging a small tournament into 5 pieces and walking away with far less than the 2 judges wo had nothing to do :/

I just dont get how support doesnt get changed depending on the player number...
 
Judge support is set by the individual organizer, and not by Pokemon International.

If I have "training" judges, they may get less than one of my veterans who I know I can count on.

I tell you this, if I have a large turnout, my judges ALWAYS get well compensated.

As for the Battle Road with 10+ judges vying for judge spots, I hope the TO was wise enough to pick the right judge(s) who are there when the bigger prizes are on the line and those "player" judges want to play and not judge.

There are two sides to the coin here.

The TO makes the final judging decisions, and for what it is worth, I have a 3* judge in STL right now who is only 15 years old. I will get him to 4* or 5* by the end of the season.

I am a FIRM believer in that the professor test does not determine whether or not you have the qualities to judge.

Vince
 
Judge support : a reward/payment for services rendered.

Prizes: what you receive for competing and doing well.

I just don't see how these two can be compared. Note that I expect that if POP had to pay for staff then it would cost a lot more than bringing in experienced "volunteers" who accept that they are on a zero $/hour rate. POP would still have to pay accomodation and transport along with actual dollars. I've been to events with "professional" staff whose first experience of pokemon was a crash course on the morning of the event.
 
To complain about judges getting more than the players is just....wow. I don't even know what to say to that one. I'm one of the people who tends to judge a lot more than I play. I love judging, and I enjoy working with the groups of judges that I've met over the years. I started judging in the 2006-2007 season (the same season I started playing) and immediately was judging more than playing. I've never played at my home states tournament because I've judged it every year for the last three years. I love doing it, so if I'm asked, I'll step forward. I then change my plans a little bit and go to another states to be able to play there. I've been a judge at nationals twice. To me, that's a fantastic opportunity, and makes me feel that I must be doing something right as a judge if I have had that invitation passed to me twice in my 3 years of judging.

Have I pretty much sealed my fate for not getting a worlds invite by doing this? Yes, I have. But at the same time, I enjoy giving back to the game in as many ways as I can. I don't typically get my packs in any other way except for judging, and some of my product does go back to my leaguers and helping new folks get some of the cards they need to build decks.
 
I do reject the argument that pokemon has to fatten up the player prize support for us to enjoy the game more. I enjoy the game, even if I won just a "atta boy!" for winning a big event.

OP is not the players. OP is the TO and judges and staff. OP needs to take care of them first.

The players, splttt. The players get OP, that is all they need, love of the game. If Pokemon game itself wasn't enjoyable, then why would anyone play!!! If someone plays only for the fact that you get some scholarships and trips, that seems warped. Their are easier and more direct and certain ways to get trips, and save for college!! The key is the prizes and ranking support gives us a nice reason and goals to shoot for to participate in organize play.
 
Well, after reading the article, and then reading the responses, I'd like to chime in on one of the topics addressed that has gone almost completely ignored because of this OP prize support issue overshadowing it, and that is the marketing strategy employed by PUSA. Ruiner wrote a great deal about the way the game is marketed exclusively to young children, most likely with the intention of getting life-long consumers. He also pointed out that that doesn't necessarily work on everyone because of what a kid goes through socially developmentally between about the ages of 10-16, and it makes a lot of sense. Now that I think about it, I was one of those kids that got my cards from my parents back when I was that age, but I moved on to Yugioh for several years, and I didn't look at Pokemon again until I was 16 and a friend of mine brought me to a league. If that hadn't happened, I don't know what I would be doing right now. Now I know that if Pokemon had been marketed as a game for people that are genuinely interested in a game with the depth of strategy that Pokemon has, it wouldn't have been necessary for my friend to literally convince me that Pokemon is better than Yugioh. And for those that want to say this is a kids game, don't, because it isn't. That is just what PUSA seems to want you to think. Another negative aspect of this marketing strategy is that kids like my friend and I have more or less been forced to keep our hobby a secret from friends outside of Pokemon because we don't want people to think we are immature or something. I know in my heart that Pokemon is not just a game for little kids, but they don't, and if the marketing strategy were directed at high school kids like us, we wouldn't have to do what we do. In this regard, it makes it a lot more difficult for PUSA to get older kids to take a look at Pokemon because of the way they are currently marketing the game. I know I have spent a great deal more on this game as a competitive player than I did as a kid that just wanted to have the cards, so in a way, PUSA is really hurting themselves with the marketing strategy they currently employ. By directing the game at little kids, they are making the game socially unacceptable to what should be their most lucrative market.
 
Battle Roads need to change. They need to be held by League Leaders while PTOs hold bigger tournaments. If Battle Roads were more common in league areas, more players would be brought into the tournament scene and be more likely to continue on to bigger events.

Battle Roads don't deserve to even been ranked, or associated with Cities/States/Regionals/etc. They aren't on the same level. The idea behind them is different.

Battle Roads are introductory tournaments. Hold them at leagues during Battle Road "time" (twice a year).

PTOs can then run more Cities, something, to take up the space.

Players get options. If they want an easy win with little reward, they can do BRs. If they want a harder win with slightly better rewards, they can do whatever PTOs run.

Really, if this changed, players wouldn't travel to BRs, since BRs would be a lot more local-like tourneys with lower competitiveness and easier for new players. Most players would just opt for the real events. But for those who don't travel, or don't travel far, having an event in their neck of the forest twice a year, held by the LL they trust so dearly, would be fantastic.

It would also promote Modified in leagues. A common problem with the game right now, in my area, is that many new players are really old players with old cards coming back and don't buy any new product.

If anything changes in the next 2-5 years, this would be the #1 thing I'd like to see.
 
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Ok, I am a bit disappointed that half the comments on this thread have to deal with judging when the ONLY mention of judging I used was in regards to Battle Roads and Cities. In one sentence. Never did I ask for LESS support for judges, I simply used it as a comparison point for how bad player support is at these events. So please don't get defensive that I am "calling out" your support. I'm not asking judges to get dropped down to player prize support levels at these events, I am asking that player support be brought up to judge level!

Obviously the amount of work done at a battle road or city championship is FAR different than a State level event and up. It is VERY possible to breeze through a smooth battle road without much effort. There is also a VERY large difference in quality amongst judges. Long time veterans like Vince here are not comparable to many of the judges who show up and judge events. I have seen a SICKENING number of unqualified judges at events around the country. I'm glad to see that at bigger events PUI has done a great job weeding these out, but they still are judging many tournaments.

Scipio- There is a difference between knowing how to spell ( and using the built in Pokegym spell check ) and opting to scroll back through a long list of replies to check a screen name which isn't in and of itself a word. None the less, I am sorry I didn't take the time to go back and make sure I had it correct.
 
I skimmed/read most of this article.

What I'd like to point out is that Magic is popular mainly on the coast line states and certain states else where (I live in Kansas and we've only a few areas that really focus on magic). Yu-Gi-Oh is killing itself with the ban list mechanic, along with all the theft/etc - the ppl incharge (KDE) don't seem to care much about the players as Pokémon USA does.

I agree that Pokémon USA should increase the prize pool/etc, however we should also count our blessings that we get to enter these events for free - excluding travel expenses (you pay those in Magic/YuGiOh as well, and then dish out an entry fee) and prereleases.

I'd like to point out that I don't really play pokémon on a competitive level, and I do play Yu-Gi-Oh! and have played MtG and to be honest I'm rather enjoying pokémon a lot more than either of the other two.
 
I have a few points on this. I agree with parts and disagree with parts, but I have a few things that I would like to comment indepth on.

In 2006, there were 156 invites in Masters, while in 2007 there was only 64, I am not going into this further other than to state that for you Chris.

As far as everything discussed I am going to break it down a lot.

First off is Judging. I don't judge a lot, but when I do I always have fun. It is tiring, however it can be argued both ways which is harder and it really depends on a lot of factors. However, in truth, judging support has been drastically cut as well, and if I am going to argue that players should get more prizes, then the judges should as well. There are so many things different with this than back in 05 , 06, and even 07. If you volunteer at Nationals or Worlds you get packs, from my understanding those who Judge and are invited to do so don't but get other really cool swag. While cool swag is great and getting anything is nice, it is a step back from when they got cards as well. The other thing is those who judge now are paid by the store for certian events as far as packs because there isn't enough support given. However, I don't have an indepth view on this as I don't have info about the inner workings of this to go any farther and the fact is some of those facts above could be wrong.

As far as paid trips, I am okay with having less of them, but it would be nice for those who qualify for Worlds to get some type of break more so than those who are grinding in or coming to Worlds as a extra. I mean I am not sure how many more some players can afford to play 300 or so a night at Worlds.

As far as Worlds, didn't they get more stuff for winning as well? I liked the entertainment system when they gave it out and while I am not sure what else they gave out I do believe it was a bit more than they currently give out. I do like how prizes are right now and I am happy they rectified not giving out DS to the T32 this year, however, I wish they would give some type of scholarship money to T32. Even if it is $500, it would be nice.

US Nationals first, should be giving invites to T16 not T8.

Nationals in general, I did like it when they gave out the TV and all that cool stuff and wish that would return, not that I expect to win Nationals anytime soon, but it would be nice to see.

Regionals, I would like to see scholarships given out to atleast T4, I wasn't very happy to see then given to only T2. I also didn't like to see that they were moved all onto one day, but it has made life a bit easier as I don't have to travel to 3 of them.

States, has stayed nearly the same, with the exception this year of the minus Origins Badge as Nationals was not at Origins this year. However the one thing that I continue to dislike about states and that with an increased budget would be nice is to give 150 in Travel Allowance to 2nd as right now it seems that 2nd gets the shaft as far as prizes. It is NOT easy to make T2 and to get 18 packs and a Trophy while 1st gets $300, a box, and a Trophy just seems a bit unbalanced.

I think BR and Cities are fine as far as prizes.

I think that decline of prizes compared to the increase of sales is VERY disturbing. I would like and hope that those who do have the power can fix this so that isn't the continuing they way it is with increased sales but lowering prize and judge support.

I am sure I have more thoughts and a more indepth view, but for now this is good and clearly states my thoughts and place on the matter.

Drew
 
ticka222 said:
in accordance to the topic--->we,that is the players and the judges should have an online petition and send it to PUI/POP.perhaps that would make a difference lol.but i do not think that the prize structure will change as i see no change in the game.
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Having an intelligent discussion here on the Gym and making good, sound points, has a much greater inpact on POP's thought processes than any petition.

Not to say that if players all demand something here that POP will do it. They have to factor the regular players' needs along with a ton of other factors. But they do read topics here and have listened and made changes in the past based on reasoned discussion.

Emphasis on "reasoned".
 
Chris you ask why so little comment on the rest of your post? Maybe because none of us know the figures. Its all just hand waving and speculation.

My understanding of marketing is that when you launch (or relaunch) your marketing spend is typically at unsustainably high levels. The early years are the golden years for those that are in at the beginning.

If the launch is successful then the number of customers increases. Revenues increase and hopefully support the level of marketting spend and even justify its increase.

So why did I say that the marketting spend is unsustainable? I've just said that the budget is supported and can even increase with a sucessful launch! Unsustainable on a per customer basis, thats why. You spend a lot to get a new customer and then less to maintain that customer. Periodically you do have to throw the old customers a special offer, but you have to be very carefull that the customer does not think that the special offer is setting a precedent. Periodically you have to ride out the drop in sales when a competitor launches in your market with their unsustainable marketting budget. It isn't a surprise that special offers come in waves.

I don't know the figures but I wonder how many non-playing customers are supporting each player. OP costs millions each year. Each million of OP spend I expect requires ten times that amount of sales revenue. Hand waving gets me to guestimate of $50,000,000 sales to support OP each year. Double that to get to the retail $$.

Is it time for a pokemon special offer in the USA? If yes what on earth should that look like? Not an easy question given that humans are inherently greedy and like to be given stuff and resent having it taken away. Often responding excessively negatively if we feel hard done to regardless of the facts.
 
SuperWooper said:
OP participation increases year-by-year on a budget that doesn't. What's the problem?
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Um... yes, it does increase. More players start playing every year, so they make more money.

And I'm pretty confident that the cards cost WAY less to make than we buy them for, probably 25% as much. I don't know for sure so I'm not going to push this information down everybody's throats, but as the amount of cards purchased grows, so do the profits.
 
bullados said:
Ruiner, I think that this group of links will help your sales argument a lot. ICV2 is usually pretty accurate with these numbers.
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Great links! I keep forgetting about ICV2 for some reason.

What happened in 2007!? I thought we were pretty strong even then.

But we got outperformed by WoW (new, fad) and Naruto (!?! Also because it was new?)
 
For what it's worth, Naruto/Dragon Ball are great games that are very popular in my area. Being outperformed by them isn't anything to be ashamed of, I have a feeling Naruto at least will be around for quite a while.
 
I will say that if paying 1$ for events made the prizes much better for all I would gladly do it. I play in about 20-30 tournaments a year that are premier, I would gladly pay $1 in each so that we could get better prizes. I can understand that Nationals and Worlds be free, but in the grand scheme of things, I think it might be beneficial.

Drew
 
meganium45 said:
Yay! I love it when a lot of people discount the value of judges in these events.

Hmmm...wonder why certain areas of the country have judge issues? Because people believe that anyone can step up and do this. Let's face it people, we really don't want the "anyones" stepping up and doing this. You need to have good, or great judges at event, and sorry people, good help costs, and is worth the price.

Judges have to be there before the opening bell. They have to help with set-up, player training, and all aspects of the event, along with the breakdown of the event. A judge has to be there for every moment that the top players have to be at the event.

There is a difference. If a player does not like the way something is going, they can scoop, drop, or concede and TAKE A BREAK. If a judge has issues, they are there for the duration. If a player gets a donk, win or lose, the player gets a 30+ minute break. If a judge has all the tables end early, what do we do? We start the next round early.

The attitude towards judges surprises me from some of you, but from others, I consider it par for the course. I have the word "unappreciative" bouncing through my head right now.

Vince
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I really don't see too many "unappreciative" posts regarding judges here, Vince...Most people actually seem to be pretty appreciative of them.

My beef, though, is that judges are virtually invisible in this argument. People ignore that their support has been hit hard, too!

When the hidden deities behind OP finally increase their budget, both player prizes "and" judge support should be increased.
 
yoyofsho16 said:
Um... yes, it does increase. More players start playing every year, so they make more money.

And I'm pretty confident that the cards cost WAY less to make than we buy them for, probably 25% as much. I don't know for sure so I'm not going to push this information down everybody's throats, but as the amount of cards purchased grows, so do the profits.
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I have read that the OP bosses have descended to the Gym and declared that their budget remains the same from year to year. I think you might be confusing the terms "profit" and "budget."

Let me put it more simply. Tournament participation increases year by year, while the amount of money that POP spends remains the same.
 
Please re-read No Pokes post.
2004 POP Budget = 2.0 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG LOSS = -4.0 Zillion Yakers
2005 POP Budget = 2.2 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG LOSS = -2.0 Zillion Yakers
2006 POP Budget = 2.4 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG Profit = 1.0 Zillion Yakers
2007 POP Budget = 2.6 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG Profit = 4.0 Zillion Yakers
2008 POP Budget = 2.8 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG Profit = 8.0 Zillion Yakers
2009 POP Budget = 3.0 Zillion Yakers .... Pokemon TCG Profit = 12.0 Zillion Yakers

Thus in the early years, Pokemon OP paid for trips and gave scholarships to a realtively small player base... WE KNEW IT... As more people see that it was fairly possible to ge those prizes, more people participated. Pokemon TCG profits increased as the player base encourage the card sales to both players and non-players....

The 2009 profit of 12 Zillion Yakers was from the investment in OP from the current year and prior year INVESTMENTS. (thus the term investment) Personally I think Nintendo goal with the TCG is to have modest profit or loss, but the support of keeping PICACHU! and other characters popular to help sell the Nintendo DSi and Wii systems and Pokemon video games.

Pokemon and Nintendo is in this for profit. The early years PRIZE support was well outside of the player base would have supported..... IT WAS AN INVESTMENT into the game, with hopes of future profits. This is Capitalism 101/Business School 101 folks, this isn't socialism... (not yet we need just a few more years to get there!)
 
TheDarkTwins said:
I will say that if paying 1$ for events made the prizes much better for all I would gladly do it. I play in about 20-30 tournaments a year that are premier, I would gladly pay $1 in each so that we could get better prizes. I can understand that Nationals and Worlds be free, but in the grand scheme of things, I think it might be beneficial.

Drew
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Perhaps you are, but what about us in Europe.
We already do pay $7 for each tournament and most of us would love to see this go down not up.
I play with 2 kids about 30 tournaments a year, which is already 30 x 21 = $630 only to play.
 
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