A Generation 1 deck

[Ridley]

My friends and I, to spite the large Magic community at my school, decided to grab our old pokemon cards and get to battling. However, we realized that most of the newer stuff is horribly overpowered, and only one guy has any of the newer cards. So to be fair, we are only using Generation 1 cards (Base set 1, Base Set 2, Jungle, Legendary Collection, Fossil 1, etc.).
After grabbing some random cards and trying them, we realized that there's a bit of deeper strategy that goes in with some cards and decks.
So, I've grabbed some of my old cards and I decided to make a deck. I need to order some from Troll and Toad, which is fine by me. I'm also borrowing some cards from people.
It's my first time building a deck, so keep in mind it will only be up against the Gen 1 cards.

So here's my deck.

20 Electric energy

4 Potion (remove 2 damage counters)
3 Super Potion (remove 1 energy and 4 damage counters)
2 Bills (draw 2 cards)
1 Switch
2 Energy Retrieval (discard a card to retrieve 2 energy)
2 Poke ball (flip coin, get basic or evolved poke)
2 Traders (Send evolved or basic poke from hand to deck to get another basic or evolved poke from deck)

2 Jolteon
3 Eevee
1 Zapdos
4 Electabuzz
4 Pidgey
3 Pidgeotto
2 Pidgeot
3 Doduo
2 Dodrio

(Links below)

Mono-typing, this deck is focused on using my energy to heal and do some serious attacks. The electric types (except Zapdos) are weak to fighting, while everyone else resists it. Other electric types may pose a problem, but I should be able to keep anything I don't like away.
The basic strategy of this deck is to get a Dodrio or a Pidgeot and switch, switch, and switch. Hurricanes will provide stalling support and prevent my opponent from setting up.

Early game: Electabuzz/Pidgey/Eevee go out and try to stall. Pidgey is frail, and will only be used unless I have no other basics. Doduo must be kept alive and will almost never be fighting (leaving more energy available). Eevee and Electabuzz can stall with Tail whip and Paralysis until I can evolve, and quick attack and ThunderPunch can do decent damage.

Mid-Game: hopefully I can get Dodrio in the bench and a Pidgeotto or Jolteon. Pidgeotto can screw with the bench and Jolteon can finish anyone weak off. Free switches allow me to use energies for Super Potions.

Late-Game: Pidgeot hurricanes everyone. If anyone else sets up, I go suicide bird with the ion cannon that is Zapdos to kill anything that is left.

Suggestions, comments, strategies, whatever. Just let me know what you think.

LINKS
Eevee
Jolteon
Electabuzz
Zapdos
Pidgey
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Doduo
Dodrio

 

[Kunx990]

- 4 Potions
- 3 Super Potions

+ 4 Gust of Wind
+ 3 Energy Removal

Potions where always usless and you are better off using Scoop up or Super Scoop up but, Gust of Wind is funnier and Energy removal works out great because of the high energy cost of most attacks.

 

[psychup2034]

Hey, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but Pidgeot and Jolteon are relatively weak cards to be playing in the format. While you might want to play with them because they're your favorites, I'm going to give you some advice if you're looking to be a little more competitive.

First, Trainers are king. There's literally no trainer lock in the format you're describing, so you need to take maximum advantage of that. Cards like Energy Removal, Super Energy Removal, and Gust of Wind, since they offer tremendous disruption and cannot be stopped.

Second, draw cards are super important. There are only 2 straight draw cards in the Base-Fossil format, which are Bill and Professor Oak. You need 4 of each. There's no getting around that.

Third, quick, consistent attackers are the way to win. As a Stage 2, Pidgeot's 80 HP and horrible lightning weakness isn't something you want to be playing. The card investment it takes to even get Pidgeot in play isn't worth the marginal benefit of an attack like Hurricane. An Electabuzz with Pluspower sends your Pidgeot to the discard pile 100% of the time.

If you're looking for a strong Electric deck in the Base-Fossil format, here's an old list I used back in the day, which I dug up from the harddrive backup of my old Windows 95. I was probably 10 years old when I made this original list, but it should still be good against more experienced competition. There were no age divisions back then, and I was able to win tournaments with this deck even against people twice my age, so I'm confident that I'm giving you a solid list to work with.

Pokemon (15)
4 Scyther
3 Electabuzz
3 Jigglypuff
3 Wigglytuff
2 Ditto

Trainers (30)
4 Bill
4 Professor Oak
4 Computer Search
3 Itemfinder
3 Gust of Wind
4 Energy Removal
2 Super Energy Removal
3 Pluspower
2 Scoop Up
1 Energy Retrieval

Energy (15)
11 Lightning Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy

Other options include Lass, a 4th Wigglytuff, a 4th Itemfinder, or more Super Energy Removal.

 

[Ridley]

Interesting. I prefer Bill to Oak, so I'll probably add two more Bills. I was considering energy removal, so I may add that in.
I know Jolt and Pidgeot are kind of weak, but my strategy is to switch and heal often. Not much is strong enough to OHKO either of them in this Gen, and Pidgey and Pidgeot force energy spreading instead of stacking. I don't like having so few energy, and I don't like having no healing.
So how about same pokemon, 18 energy and
-1 switch
-2 energy retrieval
+2 energy removal
+2 bills
+1 super energy removal
I have a feeling energy removal would be good to protect my somewhat frail Pokemon.
I considered Gust of wind, but with Pidgey and Pidgeotto, do I need them? I don't get to pick the target, but hey, I do get to spread some damage.
I don't get how Plus Power and scoop up would be beneficial.
Although, aren't Energy Removal and super energy removal banned? In that case I would add 2 gust of winds and a retrieval.

 

[psychup2034]

Interesting. I prefer Bill to Oak, so I'll probably add two more Bills. I was considering energy removal, so I may add that in.

There is no "preferring" Bill to Professor Oak. You need 4 of each. It's that simple.

I know Jolt and Pidgeot are kind of weak, but my strategy is to switch and heal often.

Unfortunately, Switching and healing often is not a viable strategy in the Base-Fossil format. Cards were too fast, damage too quick, and healing too insufficient to make this strategy viable. The best healing card of the time is probably Scoop Up, since it eliminates all damage counters on a Pokemon without giving up a prize.

Not much is strong enough to OHKO either of them in this Gen, and Pidgey and Pidgeot force energy spreading instead of stacking.

Electabuzz with a Pluspower OHKOs Pidgeot with a Thunderpunch. Hitmonchan's Special Punch OHKOs Jolteon. Unfortunately for the strategy you're proposing, Electabuzz and Hitmonchan are two of the five most prominent attackers in the format. (Ditto with 3 energy also sends your Pidgeot out of play.)

Ironically, Pidgeot is actually playable in Unlimited (all legal cards can be used), as the Hurricane attack can be used on turn 1 (with Broken Time Space and Boost Energy) to bench out an opponent, although Drifblim does this much better (takes 1 less spot).

I don't like having so few energy, and I don't like having no healing.

I understand that Magic decks require more lands to play, which is why you're so inclined to include more energy. For example, if I built a WUR Aggro deck with 15 lands, what would you tell me? That I'm playing too few lands.

In a similar way, I'm telling you that 20 energies is too many for a Pokemon deck, especially since there's much more draw in Pokemon than in Magic.

I don't get how Plus Power and scoop up would be beneficial.

Pluspower adds damage to your attacks. It allows Wigglytuff to OHKO Electabuzz and Hitmonchan. It allows Electabuzz to OHKO things like Pidgeot. Two Pluspowers (easier to achieve than you think) allows Electabuzz to OHKO Blastoise. It turns a lot of Scyther's 3HKOs into 2HKOs. An additional 10 or 20 damage here and there is just too good to be without.

Scoop Up is the best form of healing in the format. Does your Scyther have 6 damage counters on it? Just use Scoop Up and deny the prize.

Although, aren't Energy Removal and super energy removal banned? In that case I would add 2 gust of winds and a retrieval.

Pokemon generally has no banlist. Only 2 cards are banned: Ancient Mew and _____'s Pikachu. These two cards are banned because one was printed in hieroglyphics and the other was a fun card never intended for play.

 

[Not Astlos]

Hey psychup2034 I'm currently in a situation similar to Ridley's (but a completely unrelated situation) as my friends and I have also started playing with our old cards, a neo genesis if u will, and judging by your responses to Ridley's post you seem like a knowledgeable guy in terms of Gen 1 Pokemon cards. So i was wondering if you could tell me how a good deck should be structured? At the moment I rely on a healing strategy in which I pair a healing field with two vileplume with some potions on the side, and its having some issues.

 

[psychup2034]

Hey psychup2034 I'm currently in a situation similar to Ridley's (but a completely unrelated situation) as my friends and I have also started playing with our old cards, a neo genesis if u will, and judging by your responses to Ridley's post you seem like a knowledgeable guy in terms of Gen 1 Pokemon cards. So i was wondering if you could tell me how a good deck should be structured? At the moment I rely on a healing strategy in which I pair a healing field with two vileplume with some potions on the side, and its having some issues.

This all depends on which sets you guys are allowing to use. Base Set-Neo Genesis is a completely different format compared to Gym Heroes-Neo Genesis.

Perhaps we could communicate via private message to discuss this (as to not "hijack" another thread). I'd love to help you out. Feel free to send me a message. :lol:

 

[Jahikoi]

It depends if you're trying to win or if you're trying to have fun. The two are vastly different.

 

[Otaku]

What does "etc." mean, just that you're allowing cards that were reprinted in later sets, or did you leave a set out? I personally would recommend allowing Team Rocket cards myself, since it allows for Trainer blocking decks built around Dark Vileplume. I am biased however because that allows one of my favorite decks, Turbo Snorlax, to exist. While most of the Team Rocket Pokemon were lackluster, the set has some good Trainers and Rainbow Energy.

Still, even if you are not allowing Team Rocket, what about the various "Blackstar" promos? Movie Promo Mewtwo is quite a potent card, and was released originally (in the U.S.) with the first Pokemon movie. That means it was available as of November 10, 1999 in the United States. That is about a month after Fossil was released over here, but well before Base Set 2.

The advice psychup2034 is giving you is quite sound. I know little of Magic first hand but after learning the must rudimentary fundamentals (e.g. playing with the online tutorial and its various decks) Magic is a far, far different beast from Pokemon of this era. The game at this time has an unprecedented level of draw and search power not only for Pokemon itself, but for any TCG I've ever played. :lol:

It may look like overkill, but it is probably easiest to just list Trainers and explain their usage in the Base-Fossil era. Staples are cards you run in ever deck, many with the full four allotted. Great cards are very good but you won't have enough room to run all of them, and you often won't need to max out what you run.

Good cards are really hard to fit into a deck, but a few strategies will call for them. They usually aren't bad, just crowded out by better cards. Cards where I said to Ignore It, do just that: most never proved to be worth playing in my experience, or have such niche usage you shouldn't bother until you finish reacquainting yourself with the game.

Beginner cards are good for those just learning or relearning the game, usually because are easy to use. The thing is they also tend to have minimal returns and are best used for "learning" the game. You'll notice a lot are coin flip based.

Base Set
Clefairy Doll - Ignore It
Computer Search - Staple
Devolution Spray - Ignore It
Imposter Professor Oak - Ignore It
Item Finder - Staple
Lass - Great Card*
Pokemon Breeder - Staple for Stage 2 decks
Pokemon Trader - Good Card
Scoop Up - Great Card
Super Energy Removal - Great Card**
Defender - Good Card
Energy Retrieval - Beginner Card
Full Heal - Ignore It
Maintenance - Beginner Card
PlusPower - Great Card
Pokemon Center - Good Card
Pokemon Flute - Ignore It
Pokedex - Beginner Card
Professor Oak - Staple
Revive - Ignore It
Super Potion - Good Card
Bill - Staple
Energy Removal - Staple
Gust of Wind - Staple
Potion - Beginner Card
Switch - Staple***

Jungle
Poke Ball - Beginner Card

Fossil
Mr. Fugi - Good Card
Energy Search - Good Card
Gambler - Ignore It****
Recycle - Beginner Card
Mysterious Fossil - Skip It (unless running something that Evolves from it)

*Lass can be really hard to use properly, and so you may want to Ignore It for now.

**SER can also be really hard to use properly, but its potency can allow you to run less normal ER.

***I consider a single Switch a Staple, and sometimes even run two, but that's because I can Computer Search it when needed and then use Item Finder to re-use that lone copy in the unlikely event I need it more than once. This plus a free retreating Pokemon like Jungle Scyther are how to handle effects of attacks like Poison, Paralysis, or effects that make your Pokemon flip to attack.

****For the card pool you have, I found a single Gambler to actually be a staple, but this requires your deck is capable of doing well even when it fails. It is also something I only used if I had too many Staples in hand to comfortably use Professor Oak or it was my last card in hand so that worst case it was a half-Bill. I will be surprised if anyone reading this agrees with Gambler having any good uses. :wink:

A lot of the Beginner Cards can help take the sting out of better cards. I've known people learning (or like I said, re-learning) who struggle using cards like Computer Search, Item Finder, and Professor Oak with their heavy discard costs. The cards that are "tails fails" are a pretty dead give away that they are meant for players who have more luck than skill.

Have fun! :biggrin:

 

[psychup2034]

Otaku's advice is pretty good. Take it.

Here's a skeleton that every deck in the format should be based around, in terns of trainers. It gives you something solid to build your deck around.

4 Bill
4 Professor Oak
3-4 Computer Search
3-4 Itemfinder
3-4 Energy Removal
2-4 Gust of Wind

 

[Ridley]

Yeah, I can't use energy removal or super energy removal in this deck.
I'm also trying to have fun, not win (although winning is nice).
I think Rockets are allowed, its just no one else is using them so I'd rather not.
Also, if Pidgey and Pidgeotto can do the same thing as Gust of wind, then why do I need Gust of Wind?
Scoop up sounds interesting. I didn't really get it at first but it is better than giving up a prize card.
And yeah, I think I'll keep switch in there. It's good for when I don't have Dodrio.
I really hate giving up energy though, because when I played with a dual-type deck, I was always so strapped for energy. I realize 20 may be a bit much, but I don't want to go under 12.
I'll have to mull this over.
Thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it.

Also please derail this thread, I want to know all I can about this (plus I know astlos - hes my rival in this sort-of tourney. If he gets to hear the help I'm getting, it's only fair I get to hear his. Either that or I'll hunt down any threads hes made.)

 

[Not Astlos]

As my name says I'm not Astlos...

 

[Otaku]

Yeah, I can't use energy removal or super energy removal in this deck.

Why? I mean if you guys have self-banned it, that is fine but let us know. Without Super Energy Removal/Energy Removal Base Set Electrode has some chops; its Buzzap Pokemon Power will cost you a Prize, but as we learned years later with a variety of cards it is well worth it when you're getting two Energy of your choice.

One thought is with Venusaur; you can keep those Buzzaped Electrodes floating around in play for quite some time unless your opponent can OHKO what you've got them attached to. This can make Venusaur itself a good attacker: turn two 60 any time it gets closed to being KOed (unless it is a OHKO) you just move the Buzzapped Electrodes onto an undamaged Pokemon and play Pokemon Center, then move them back and resume attacking!

I'm also trying to have fun, not win (although winning is nice).

Fun is good, but if you're intentionally banning/restricting cards I suggest you and your friends formalize it. If it is just you, that is still fine, but let us know sooner. XD

I think Rockets are allowed, its just no one else is using them so I'd rather not.

Personally I find them very fun, so it is your loss. Dark Alakazam/Tauros/Dodrio can make for a fun deck. Dark Blastoise is a solid card, and while weaker than Base Set Blastoise the two can be used together (hello Pokemon Breeder!). I ran a Dark Charizard deck, and that was when Neo Genesis was legal; I didn't win a lot but it was quite fun! I could go on... but I won't; there are only another four or five Pokemon worth using from this set I think.

There are several Trainers and of course Rainbow Energy, which makes multi-type decks much easier. Rocket's Sneak Attack, Imposter Oak's Revenge, and Goop Gas are "Great Cards" as per earlier, though I usually only run one Goop Gas and Item Finder it as needed.

Nightly Garbage Run on the other hand is a staple! You know how you were worried about discarding so many cards? Say hello to the solution. A single copy lets you handle key cards, and if you need more than that (say while learning how to use cards like Computer Search, Item Finder, and Professor Oak) that's fine as well. If you're really not digging using Professor Oak, at least Challenge! can give you an extra draw card.

Also, if Pidgey and Pidgeotto can do the same thing as Gust of wind, then why do I need Gust of Wind?

They don't do the same thing as Gust of Wind. With Gust of Wind you choose which of your opponent's Benched Pokemon are forced into the Active position. This allows you to force something up and then attack it for damage. The Pokemon attacks in question do damage to the current Defending Pokemon and then force it to the Bench, your opponent then selects what comes up instead.

Even if the attack did let you choose, like Base Set Ninetales with Lure, you're using an attack; your turn is now over. Your opponent has an entire turn to deal with the problem.

Scoop up sounds interesting. I didn't really get it at first but it is better than giving up a prize card.

It also helps to remember that the Pokemon that demonstrated its power to average players were ones that used very little Energy, or at least could attack efficiently for a single Energy. Hitmonchan can Jab away for just :fighting: and the turn before he'd be KOed you drop Scoop Up and promote the Pokemon you've been building on the Bench. This is a common opening move: most Pokemon don't hit hard enough earlier enough to prevent you from getting two or even three uses of Jab in; that's 40 to 60 points of damage!

I really hate giving up energy though, because when I played with a dual-type deck, I was always so strapped for energy. I realize 20 may be a bit much, but I don't want to go under 12.
I'll have to mull this over.

First and foremost, dual-type meaning dual Energy? It does take more to make such decks work. Also one of those areas of mild disagreement with psychup2034 is about Energy in your deck. Since you seem to be relearning the game, you shouldn't go over 20 Energy but it is okay to clock in between 15 and 20 Energy since you are still learning. The more you practice, the better you'll get and investing that Energy. Especially if no one is running Energy Removal or Super Energy Removal.

Re-reading your first paragraph, I also thought I should remind you that while you're covering your Weakness, unless the lack of Super Energy Removal/Energy Removal changes this, the best deck during the Base through Fossil era was the Fighting/Lightning Haymaker deck, built around Base Set Hitmonchan and Electabuzz. Remember that Movie Promo Mewtwo I mentioned? Once it came out, the best deck was Base Set Hitmonchan, Base Set Electabuzz, and Movie Promo Mewtwo.

Scyther is also in there, and is a common sight in most decks since a free retreating 70 HP Fighting Resistant Basic Pokemon is handy in most decks. Almost no one worries about having Energy for Swords Dance; with the damage output seen in this era Slash for :colorless::colorless::colorless: is plenty effective.

In fact, let me dig up a Potpourri* deck list from about that time frame... or not. I can't find it. I don't have my exact list from when I was in High School, or later when I rebuilt the deck in college. I do have my Game Boy Color and copy of Pokemon Trading Card Game for it, with something similar. I was trying to quite playing that game (great game by the way) because eventually I hope to sell off all my remaining Game Boy/Game Boy Color games and Game Boy Color system itself... but if I keep this up it will sound like I am trying to get a sale. >_<

Name: Potpourri*

Pokemon (10)
2 Electabuzz (Base Set)
2 Hitmonchan (Base Set)
2 Magmar (Fossil)
2 Mewtwo (Black Star Promo 3 or 14)
2 Scyther (Jungle)

Trainers (35)
4 Bill
4 Computer Search
3 Energy Removal
1 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
1 Gambler
3 Gust of Wind
4 Item Finder
4 Plus Power
3 Professor Oak
1 Scoop Up
2 Super Energy Removal
1 Switch

Energy (15)
3 Double Colorless Energy
3 Fighting Energy
3 Fire Energy
3 Lightning Energy
3 Psychic Energy

*Note: Not actually a true Potpourri deck, since I didn't include Water Pokemon, but for the life of me I can't remember what water Pokemon I did include. True Potpourri decks would have a representative of Water Pokemon as well, and some might insist there be a Colorless Type as well.

I'll probably let myself play the game for a bit to fine tune that list, but that's what I am working with now. Right away I don't see a need for three DCE in the deck, since I have only two Scyther, but I left it in there until I decide what to add (I am thinking Lass). Maxing out on Computer Search and Item Finder allow me greater flexibility, but if I was really struggling to afford them I could drop one of each and still probably get by (maybe adding Pokemon Trader in their place; less flexible but less costly).

Strategy
Less reliable than a Haymaker, it could still give most decks a run for their money through type matching. It's main weakness was basically choking on itself, and with a good build that wasn't a huge problem. With what is available, you've got to be careful not to waste any Pokemon; you'll typically want to have Mewtwo, Scyther, and then whatever hits for Weakness ready to go.

Some things to remember are that you could add in Rainbow Energy for even better Energy options, Nightly Garbage run to recycle important Pokemon and Energy, and Goop Gas to mess up decks like Rain Dance or Venucenter. Plus if you aren't using Energy Removal/Super Energy Removal (see, we need to know if this is just a "you" thing or a group thing XD) you'd have five more slots to play with.

Note that you can use this concept to design something a little more "you". The Eeveelutions (Jolteon, Vaporeon, Flareon) aren't great, but you could back them with Scyther easily enough to cover four different types. That would only be 8 Basic Pokemon, so you might want to add something else in as well. All three Eeveelutions have flexible Energy requirements, so despite being a "tri-color" deck it is easier than other tri-color Stage 1 decks.

Well, other than managing Eevees. Oh, and again if there is no S/ER, you could safely use Electrode for Buzzap. You'd have to cut way back on the Trainers, but that might suit your more laid back atmosphere.

 

[Ridley]

We banned Energy removals yesterday, so I let you know as soon as I found out.
As for winning, we're all relearning the game, so I'm not too worried about the competition (except for astlos).
Also, I should really not trust my friends because they told me Gust of Wind and Pidgeotto do the same thing. Guess I'll just check sources next time. A gust of wind would come in handy, then.
Could Fuji be a suitable alternative to scoop up? Most of my Pokemon have a 1 or 2 retreat cost, and especially if they've evolved, I'd really like to have them for later if possible.
Also, I didn't even know computer search or itemfinder existed or what they did. Absolutely going to add a bunch.
Since I'm learning, I think heals are still good. I'd prefer them to energy searches and retrievals.
No one else is using the Rocket expansion cards, so I'd prefer to stick to the Jungle stuff. My loss, I know.
Scyther is tempting, because he is my favorite pokemon of all time. However, I'm going to be stubborn and say no, because I want no more than two types of pokemon in my deck. Call me weird, but that's the way I want it. My loss, I know.

Anyway, finals coming up, teachers running around to finish material they didn't cover, so I'm kinda swamped right now. I'll come up with a new list soon.

Again, really, thank you for all the time you've spent helping me, I really appreciate it.

 

[Not Astlos]

Thanks Ridley im flattered. Also I'd say Tanooki is probably better, he has the most experience with the game. Also that fearow, that god damn fearow....

 

[Otaku]

We banned Energy removals yesterday, so I let you know as soon as I found out.

You said you "can't" use them... that could easily mean you simply didn't have any. Remember you're the only source for information about the custom "format" you and your friends have created; be explicit in details.:thumb:

As for winning, we're all relearning the game, so I'm not too worried about the competition (except for astlos).
Also, I should really not trust my friends because they told me Gust of Wind and Pidgeotto do the same thing. Guess I'll just check sources next time. A gust of wind would come in handy, then.

"Trust but verify" is a useful explanation. Given that this very website has a "Researching Tower" section with scans of all cards (the default shows just Modified - simply click the link that says to show for Unlimited). The link to the researching tower should be halfway between the top center and top right hand corner of this very page (or any page on the forum). If scans don't work for you, try Pokepedia.net for text spoilers.

Could Fuji be a suitable alternative to scoop up? Most of my Pokemon have a 1 or 2 retreat cost, and especially if they've evolved, I'd really like to have them for later if possible.

Definitely given what you're describing. Scoop Up was so good because it was being used with Basic Pokemon, and ones with lower Energy costs too boot! If you're continuing with the Pidgeot and Jolteon lines, that doesn't describe your Pokemon. If you're still using Dodrio (that is actually one of the good-but-not-great Stage 1 Pokemon of the format) so that your Pokemon can retreat for free, your laid back format should suit Mr. Fuji well. If your Pokemon aren't retreating for free (either a different deck or you dropped Dodrio) then you'll want to combo with Switch.

Also, I didn't even know computer search or itemfinder existed or what they did. Absolutely going to add a bunch.
Since I'm learning, I think heals are still good. I'd prefer them to energy searches and retrievals.

I could use some clarification here. Not on the first part; since you guys have a finite format, once your school work dies down you really should take a few minutes to sit through and read every card from Base Set, Jungle, and Fossil (plus anything else you guys are allowing). Since right now that sounds like at most those three sets and maybe Team Rocket (in case someone else starts using it) and the Black Star Promos out from that time, it is pretty much a "no brainer" to do this. You're dealing with maybe 400 cards tops, and most you just need to know exist, not be able to quote from memory.

Once you have a basic working knowledge, Pokepedia.net will make it easy to look up cards based on characteristics. You can go over there, specify things like "Base Set, Jungle, Fossil cards only", and then bring up a list of all Basic Lightning-Type Pokemon that don't Evolve. The search parameters are many and customizable.

As for Energy Search and Energy Retrieval, those aren't exactly general usage cards. Energy Retrieval is for when you're new, and both are useful if you're running a mutli-Type deck. A few people use(d) Energy Search as a literal filler card in mono-color decks (basically in place of cards 57-60), cashing it in for an Energy as soon as one was needed or as a painless discard option when said Energy was not needed.

I suggested them for you because you said you were having so much trouble with Energy. Just making sure "healing" cards means Potions and the like and not Full Heal. Full Heal really is bad. XD

No one else is using the Rocket expansion cards, so I'd prefer to stick to the Jungle stuff. My loss, I know.
Scyther is tempting, because he is my favorite pokemon of all time. However, I'm going to be stubborn and say no, because I want no more than two types of pokemon in my deck. Call me weird, but that's the way I want it. My loss, I know.

Just being clear; even though you can run the same Energy you already use and play Scyther, you're not going to use it... just because? Yeah, it is your call, but I want to make sure this is a fanciful whim (like refusing to use the best baseball bat in a ball game "just because") and not because you are still scared of running multiple kinds of Energy in your deck.

This is Pokemon, not magic. Running Jungle Scyther almost never involves running Grass-Type Energy. You ignore Swords Dance and just use Slash. You get a 70 HP Fighting Resistant Pokemon with a free Retreat Cost. Scyther was a near staple in decks at the time because of those traits. I suppose with Dodrio that is less important for your deck, but the fighting Resistance still fits.

Also, nothing resists Grass Pokemon prior to the release of Metal Pokemon in Neo Genesis. During the time frame the sets you're allowing represents, Scyther was basically a Colorless Pokemon that occasionally hit Weakness (again, actual Colorless Weak Pokemon didn't come about until years later).

Anyway, finals coming up, teachers running around to finish material they didn't cover, so I'm kinda swamped right now. I'll come up with a new list soon.

Again, really, thank you for all the time you've spent helping me, I really appreciate it.

You're welcome. PM me if you want some more deck lists from this time, or those tailored to your somewhat unique format. I caved and have been testing stuff that I can on the GBC game. Pity the game lacks Fossil Ditto and Base Electrode. Oh yeah, and that Turbo Arcanine deck was developed for people on a budget: the only in demand cards in it are the staples of the format. The first version of it I saw was for a "no Rares" tournament.

---------- Post added 05/02/2012 at 10:56 AM ----------

Thanks Ridley im flattered. Also I'd say Tanooki is probably better, he has the most experience with the game. Also that fearow, that god damn fearow....

Fearow? Do you mean the Jungle version in the TCG, or are you talking in the video games?

I had a friend with a killer Fearow deck in the TCG... because my friends and I had mistaken Double Colorless Energy (the only Special Energy card in the first three sets) as a Trainer. I mean, we were new to the game and it was almost the same color. :redface: While a lack of S/ER would help it, competent Electabuzz use should render it pretty poor.

 

[Ridley]

So here's what I think I'll do.
15 Lightning Energy
3 Double Colorless
3 Scyther
All the same pokemon I had earlier -1 Electabuzz (21 total)
4 Potion
2 Super Potion
1 Switch
2 Fuji
3 Bill
2 PokeBall
2 Trader
2 Computer Search
2 Gust of Wind

I'm sad I don't get to add Itemfinder or have more Gusts of Wind, but I like being Pokemon-heavy.
You also convinced me to use Scyther.
I'm ordering these cards tomorrow.

 

[psychup2034]

4 Bill, 4 Professor Oak. Yes, 4 of each. You wanted help with your deck. This is a solid piece of advice. Please just take it. (Your refusal to run Professor Oak is similar to a Magic player using Mage-Blade who refuses to run any Vapor Snag just because he's already running Ponder. I know the analogy isn't perfect, but you need both Bill AND Professor Oak.)

Focus on either Jolteon or Pidgeot. Having both evolutions in there will hurt your chances to win the game, as you'll find some inconsistencies. Pidgeot may seem like a good choice, but Hurricane is actually rather quite weak in a format full of Basic Pokemon attackers. Pidget and Pidgeotto are really bad, making Pidgeot even less worthwhile to play.

Additionally, healing is pretty useless in the format, especially since a Hitmonchan's Special Punch or Electabuzz's Thunderpunch (Pluspowered) will OHKO your whole deck, except Scyther.

You need Ditto. One of the best cards in the format.

Don't be so reluctant to run Computer Search and Itemfinder. They're great cards. Searching for a guaranteed card (especially when refreshing your hand is so easy with Professor Oak) is really good. [The abundance of search in Pokemon is often a thing that Magic players will take a while to adapt to when playing Pokemon, but trust us, search is good.)

If you must include either Jolteon or Pidgeot, here's where I'm at with this list:

Pokemon (14)
3 Eevee
3 Jolteon
3 Scyther
3 Electabuzz
2 Ditto

Trainers (30)
4 Bill
4 Professor Oak
4 Computer Search
3 Itemfinder
4 Gust of Wind
4 Pluspower
2 Switch
2 Mr. Fuji
1 Energy Retrieval
2 Lass

Energy (16)
12 Lightning Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy

Lass takes some strategy to play, but seems like a possibility with this deck. Scyther and Ditto are your only options to stop Hitmonchan, although an Electabuzz can be useful early against it.

As you play more and more with this deck, you will realize that Jolteon is holding this deck back, and its damage output leaves something to be desired. (Wigglytuff will be your answer here.)

 

[Otaku]

Ridley: Based on the numbers you have given, we have a discrepancy.

Here's what I have based on your own postings:

Pokemon (26)
02 Dodrio (Jungle)
03 Doduo (Base)
03 Eevee (Jungle)
03 Electabuzz (Base)
02 Jolteon (Jungle)
02 Pidgeot (Jungle)
03 Pidgeotto (Base)
04 Pidgey (Base)
03 Scyther (Jungle)
01 Zapdos (Base)

Trainer (20)
03 Bill
02 Computer Search
02 Gust of Wind
02 Mr. Fuji
02 Poke Ball
04 Potion
02 Super Potion
01 Switch
02 Trader

Energy (16)
04 Double Colorless Energy
12 Lightning Energy

Organization makes this easier for everyone; you don't have to alphabetize or break up your list by Pokemon/Trainers/Energy, but it really does help us help you. I included sets for the Pokemon but not the Energy or the Trainers, as only Pokemon can have the same name but different effects (barring errata and the like).

So yeah, by my count your deck is over by two cards. There is another problem as well: half following our advice will probably backfire. Nothing personal, but a lot of cards and techniques psychup2034 and are are recommending work together as fundamental "combos". The one foundational to decks using this card pool is Computer Search + Professor Oak + Item Finder, and closely related are things like telling you to run just one of a particular Trainer. Computer Search, Item Finder, and Professor Oak all should be at four cards since you're still learning.

If you run no Professor Oak, then you'll find it really hard to have enough cards in hand to "fuel" Computer Search and Item Finder. Cards that we've suggested you run at less than three are usually only possible because you're maxing out Computer Search/Item Finder/Professor Oak. You might still get by with a single copy of Switch but only because of Dodrio... and if it isn't clear, running four Item Finders and one Switch is one less slot than running a 3-2 Dodrio line and a single clutch Switch.

Your deck uses Pokemon to do a lot of things we suggest using Trainers for; using Pokemon may allow you to reuse those effects but is slows you down tremendously. I think we touched upon this earlier; even if you had an attack like Lure from Ninetales (Base Set) it doesn't work as well as using Gust of Wind. If you use Lure, your opponent has their entire turn to undo what you just did: one Switch essentially reads "Your opponent wasted their attack last turn."

Even a deck built around that Ninetales is running at least three Gust of Wind, and with three or four Computer Search and three or four Item Finders to get Gust of Wind quickly and re-use it as needed. After all, Gust of Wind + Fire Blast (Ninetales' second attack) is going to KO most Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon.

Since you're ordering cards, you're ordering cards, and that is why we are getting a bit insistent. Oh, and have you been checking eBay? Seems pretty regular someone sells off their old collection of cards, and considering how many old staples and such you need, that might be a better deal. I don't know exactly which cards you are ordering, so if Troll And Toad is less expensive, okay go with it. Oh, and make good use of Base Set 2 if the prices for those cards are lower than the Base Set/Jungle versions!

I know this is already a monster post, but your deck has very low synergy. You've explained your strategy, and we are trying to help you with it, but there are concerns. Jolteon is an "Eeveelution" and is best used in a deck built around Flareon, Vaporeon, and itself. Since you've got Pidgeot in your deck, I assume it is the main focus... which means you can use any Energy for it, and shouldn't be "forced" to use Jolteon just because it is the only Stage 1 Lightning-Type Pokemon that isn't weak, self-destructive, or both.

Oh, and yes psychup2034 gave you a mono-Type Jolteon list, but that's because you've been insisting on both; he's doing the best he can with the constraints but if you let him, he'll yank that Jolteon line right out of the deck.

If you're using Lightning Energy just for Electabuzz and Zapdos... well Zapdos isn't really a good fit for the deck either: it takes too much support to run well that it would need to be the focus of your deck. Don't think like Magic: you won't have a mana pool to tap to bring it out after Pidgeot is KOed; you'll be slowly building it one turn at a time, and even with your healing cards, Zapdos will only last three turns against a good, well made deck.

So if you really want to use Pidgeot, consider backing it up with Wigglytuff or Clefable. Then if you still want to use Electabuzz, use it and stick with Lightning Energy. If you'd rather use Hitmonchan, then you can keep your Double Colorless Energy and run fighting Energy instead. Scyther can use anything, so its good no matter what primary Energy Type you're using as well.

I'd ditch the Dodrio line: you shouldn't be retreating that often. Remember, with the number of slots dedicated to Dodrio, you could max out on Switch. In fact dropping Dodrio and adding three Switch would lower your deck to a legal size (as I have it listed above). Scyther and Pidgeot would still have free Retreat Costs, and a single Energy Retreat Cost isn't that bad; you'd mostly want the Switch for getting out of a Special Condition or moving 'Buzz back to the Bench.

Now what if you weren't focusing on Pidgeot? Well I just said, if Jolteon is the focus, you need to be running a tri-Type deck: Fire/Lightning/Water. If Zapdos is the focus, you need to be running a deck built just around it, and I think I have an idea for that. We already told you how to use Electabuzz well, and I could probably come up with a solid shared Strategy for Electabuzz/Zapdos. Lastly if you really want to use Dodrio, again you need to be looking at how to maximize what it does (Retreat Aid and Rage), and I can give you ideas there.


tl;dr: You'd better PM and see if we can converse via e-mail or an Instant Messenger because there is a lot of ground to cover. :lol:

 

[Ridley]

Yeah sorry I made a mistake, there should be two Scythers and three double colorless.
(Side note - I also added Scyther because a friend of mine is running Aerodactyl - who's weak to grass)
In terms of strategy, how should I use Oak? I'm guessing I use it when I have no hand, then use computer search, pokeball, trader, and itemfinder to get the cards I need. Preferably I would set up Pidgeot or Jolteon early to keep sending energies back or do some damage. I didn't add those cards initially because I really wasn't sure how to use them in-game. Just telling me to use them wasn't very convincing, please tell me how to use them so I can understand their value better. I had no one to play with as a kid, so this is really my first experience with card games (except I've been playing a lot of Yugioh recently, but I've never built my own deck).
As for all your suggestions, I've ordered the cards above as a prototype and will edit them as needed. Jolteon is my second favorite Pokemon, so I'd rather not ditch him. Zapdos is there because my friend had one and I thought he was cool. I'll ditch him if he doesn't work. I'd rather not take whole Pokemon lines out, I'd rather mess with the Trainers or cut back on the amount of Pokemon. If I have too, I'll ditch one of each on the Pidgeot line and one of each on the Dodrio line and add 4 Oaks and another Bill. If Potions don't work out, I'll switch them out for 2 Itemfinders, 2 more Computer searches, and 2 Gust of Wind (or add one more Gust and a second Switch). I enjoy Potions, but I need to see how it works out.
I'm not worried about ordering more cards. I have some cash left over for spending, and I can't think of a better way to spend my money. Plus any spare cards I can sell back for a similar price to my friends. Most of them also have extra Oaks and Bills and stuff I can borrow.
Really, I learn by experimentation, and I need to see what cards fit my playstyle. I'll see what's good for me and what is not, and adjust accordingly. I don't want to create an entirely new deck and call it modified because it has 1-2 of the same pokemon in it.
But I realize that half-following advice is a bad idea. I'll probably rework it to be 20 Pokemon, 15 energy and 25 Trainers. Like I said though, I need to see what works for me and what doesn't.