I'm sure by now we all know that tropical beach is ridiculously good but ridiculously expensive. Some people have said that we should ban it, but that is unfair to those who just bought it (please note I don't currently know anyone who owns tropical beach, so i am not being biased) as it would significantly drop the price. It would also look pretty bad to ban a card that was given out at worlds. Some people have suggested taking the Klaczynski Open route and allowing all copies of tropical beach, including foreign and world championship deck cards, this is bad as we will have to severely crack down on bringing matte sleeves to tournaments. just imagine if you put a beach in a faulty sleeve and didnt notice it, you could get kicked out of the tournament. i think that the best thing we could do is to make it an ace spec. It will drop the price slightly, but it wont make it worthless. it will also let more people use it, because everyone who already owns more than 1 can give the others to other people. one of the biggest complaints people have is that there is not enough beaches for all the players out there, this will fix that since we will only need one. what do you guys think?
A Solution To Tropical Beach?
- Thread starter r1234oc
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deckmaster
Active Member
I suggested to many asking to make Tropical Beach a League promo. Not only will it increase League attendance; in some areas, and it would allow Tropical Beach to be re-released while retaining its Promo number.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Disagree. If only you could use it, maybe. But making it an Ace Spec functionally WOULD make it worthless - who would ever play an Ace Spec Stadium card instead of Computer Search, Dowsing Machine, Scoop Up Cyclone, etc?
I would lay down a significant amount of money saying TPC would never allow it to be reprinted as anything other than a Worlds promo, whether TPCI wanted to or not.
Ness
Member
All Tropical Beach cards have the same back except for the Japanese version and World Championship version. I was particularly lenient at the KO by allowing the World Championship version, something I would never recommend at premier events, but allowing all European versions would pose no potential sleeve issues.
While releasing the card as an easily-acquired promo would make the card easily accessible to players, you must remember there are still a lot of people who value the collectibility of a card only obtainable by playing in the World Championships. Reprinting this card would take away some of its uniqueness, and might annoy collectors.
The best solution to keeping Tropical Beach accessible to players would be to allow foreign versions at premier events. It's fair to the players, without taking away the significance of a World Championship promo.
While releasing the card as an easily-acquired promo would make the card easily accessible to players, you must remember there are still a lot of people who value the collectibility of a card only obtainable by playing in the World Championships. Reprinting this card would take away some of its uniqueness, and might annoy collectors.
The best solution to keeping Tropical Beach accessible to players would be to allow foreign versions at premier events. It's fair to the players, without taking away the significance of a World Championship promo.
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Hi All
just a thought would it not be a good idea to do what they have done with Professor Juniper and Cheren and re-release Tropical Beach under a different card name?
the original promo's would still keep their uniqueness as the re-print would essentially be a new card with the same effect.
just a thought would it not be a good idea to do what they have done with Professor Juniper and Cheren and re-release Tropical Beach under a different card name?
the original promo's would still keep their uniqueness as the re-print would essentially be a new card with the same effect.
They're doing it with all the other cards with same card effects. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like this. Speaking as someone who has faced off with Tropical Beach twice during this past LC, I would agree with such a compromise.
Otaku
Active Member
Now... why is that a major concern?
1) I don't know of anyone that wants an exact reproduction of either of the previous promos... thus from a collector's standpoint the supply won't change. What may change is that the value, currently inflated due to demand from the competitive side of the game, will diminish as a less "collectible" version will become available. Even that is uncertain because the initial supply of Tropical Beach (either version) is small enough that collector demand may still outstrip supply enough that those in possession of the card can just "sit" on them and wait for a buyer willing to shell out (their own finances permitting).
2) When it comes to making the Pokémon TCG successful, it is important to remember the three major component's of its customer base:
- Players of the game
- Collectors of the cards
- People buying it because its Pokémon (neither player nor collector)
The third group appears to be the biggest... but they are also the least discerning and easiest to please and so while technically a constraint, seldom will it actually be binding because other factors will prevent you from breaching the boundary e.g. keep it Pokémon and they keep buying.
The first and second groups... I don't know who is bigger. I know there is a significant amount of overlap as well. The important thing to remember is market penetration; the game can get alone without either of these groups, but the goal is to get as many as possible. So... can you make the game collectible without damaging the players? Indeed; many players are thrilled that because they pull a hard-to-find version of a card they can sell/trade it to collectors... because the player can use the mundane, easier to find version that has significantly less monetary (and collectible) value.
TL;DR: This is an artificial situation brought about by the foolish practice of creating "unique" cards for exclusive Worlds Promos; eventually such a card was bound to be good enough to impact competitive play significantly, let alone affect it at all. While releasing a third version of Tropical Beach that is clearly not either of the previous printings may not be solution, the only reason there is a problem is due to questionable policy and failure to weight the situation properly. A new printing of Tropical Beach will not impact anything but the most casual of "collectors" that settle for any version of a card; any remotely serious collector will still desire the elusive "Worlds" versions because the supply of those promos will not be changing.
losjackal
Technical Administrator
I don't know exactly why, but the feedback I've gotten from people with experience with TPCi is there seems to be strong reasons why they wouldn't open up the foreign card rule again. So I'm taking their word for it.
Besides, that solution doesn't bring down the price of the English Beaches in my opinion, it just jacks up the price of the foreign ones. I think the newfound supply would dry up pretty quickly.
So I'm personally resigned to the fact that if anything is going to happen, it's simply going to be prohibited from tournament play. It's really the simplest solution if the current situation is unacceptable.
Besides, that solution doesn't bring down the price of the English Beaches in my opinion, it just jacks up the price of the foreign ones. I think the newfound supply would dry up pretty quickly.
So I'm personally resigned to the fact that if anything is going to happen, it's simply going to be prohibited from tournament play. It's really the simplest solution if the current situation is unacceptable.
rivershock
Member
What if they released a similar, but weaker, clone of Beach that, say, only drew up to 6 or something? It'd still be playable, but there'd still be a reason Beach would be desirable. Not an ideal solution either, but probably a little better than outright reprinting it or allowing foreign copies.
deckmaster
Active Member
Jayson, allowing foreign versions at premier events of Tropical Beach would only drive the value up of foreign versions. The International players would be upset.
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Otaku
Active Member
Why?
No, really. Anyone who is not a newbie knows I can be frustratingly thick, so I am seriously asking (as opposed to in jest or as a rhetorical question). I will clarify though; I agree with losjackal and deckmaster, though if someone is certain they can explain why that is a mistaken analysis, go ahead and challenge it.
Otherwise, I don't see why reprinting Tropical Beach in a manner that makes it distinct from the two World Championship promos is an issue at all; perhaps because the idea of any legal-to-play card that is so restricted in distribution is baffling at best and appalling at worst.
rivershock
Member
Honestly, I feel this way because, compared to prize cards of other card games like Yu-Gi-Oh!, Tropical Beach has a rather high number of copies in circulation (especially factoring in foreign copies), so minor changes in their perceived worth can have a much more significant impact on their prices, and devaluing them significantly would cheapen the experience somewhat. (Probably not to a very damaging level, but enough to cause some... Bitterness, which isn't good for the game.) In a game like Yu-Gi-Oh!, the smaller number of copies help to keep the card valuable even in the event of such a card being reprinted. (This even applies to cards with little gameplay value, not just cards in a similar vein to Tropical Beach that confer a significant advantage.)
I agree that it should be reprinted with a different name and given Juniper/Sycamore rules. It will be able to remain the "exotic" nature of a Worlds promo, but it will make Stage 2 decks significantly more accessible to your average player. I'd be surprised if there wasn't SOMETHING that either was a reprint or a nerf of Beach in XY. Card designers tend to like to shake up the meta.
Otaku
Active Member
I... don't follow. Again, let me be careful; I mean I really don't follow your post very well.
Let's look at it in a bit more detail. The amount of prize cards compared to other card games is... largely irrelevant. You just cited one of the reasons I don't play those other games (or at least didn't play those other games when I had the means). You haven't given criteria that proves those games aren't just making the same mistake only to a larger degree.
Subjectively speaking, Tropical Beach has a high number of copies. Objectively, comparing it to other cards in general, it does not. The former does not really matter, because it is so subjective; this is literally holding up an example cards that are even harder to obtain (from other games no less) and stating that proves the amount we have must be sufficient. Objectively, we merely have to consider how they were distributed, in what approximate quantities, and the price on the secondary market to see that demand is significantly outstripping supply.
Others have explained better than I why just legalizing foreign copies won't work; you can disagree but if you don't explain why, you aren't going to convince me that they are wrong. As for the "bitterness" re-releasing another version of the card would bring to the game... no. If your awesome Worlds experience is spoiled because the promo that is going for big bucks is now going for smaller bucks (but still probably a lot, based on past examples) due to making it more available to others, promoting their potential happiness and fairness... something else is wrong.
Even if I tried to accept the basic premise, the amount of Worlds' qualifiers and staff that are "bitter" versus the amount of other players/collectors that are "bitter" over the current situation... the latter group is going to outweigh the former. For that matter, why shouldn't past World's Staff or qualifiers be bitter because their respective promos weren't worth as much?
It's easy, to help keep the advantage for stage 2 decks everywhere forever, is make it a permanent effect that you are limited in how many times you can use it in a game/match or having a drawback like putting some damage on your pokemon or you draw less cards than beach. It would still make beach better by there being no draw backs and unlimited uses do if their angle is to give worlds players and advantage or keep the promo exclusive. Plus they wouldn't have to produce a card so they could do it for virtually free.
The same thing could be done with something like champions festival and it would be interesting to see how if they changed it every year the new mechanics coming out and keeping the game fresh.
My opinion is that even though beach is bad in that it is expensive but it is really good effect wise for every deck. It gives players the chance to get out of a bad hand while giving stage 2 decks a very good solution to the early game to help them thrive. And also my opinion is that stage 2s will be part of the meta for as long as this game may last and basics will stay as well, so instead of just having to reprint beach and keep this sort of caste system of players who can and cannot afford beach just make it part of them game to keep health in the meta for a long time.
The same thing could be done with something like champions festival and it would be interesting to see how if they changed it every year the new mechanics coming out and keeping the game fresh.
My opinion is that even though beach is bad in that it is expensive but it is really good effect wise for every deck. It gives players the chance to get out of a bad hand while giving stage 2 decks a very good solution to the early game to help them thrive. And also my opinion is that stage 2s will be part of the meta for as long as this game may last and basics will stay as well, so instead of just having to reprint beach and keep this sort of caste system of players who can and cannot afford beach just make it part of them game to keep health in the meta for a long time.
SolarPichu
Member
How about an errata? When you play Tropical Beach, your turn ends. This at least gives the opponent a turn to counter, and slows the draw a turn.
vaporeon
Moderator
A better option would be for them to just print a stadium card with the same effect in one of the XY booster sets without doing anything to the promo at all. No need to ban or errata it, just some good judgement on TPC and making it is all thats needed.
Hope there's no more reprints but personally I'm not too terribly unrested over Tropical Beach. I've been able to handle decks that have used it against me so I'm not too terribly worried. besides, if it isn't reprinted and the promo cut assumption is true, it'll be gone by the end of the current season. At least, that's my assumption as well.
vaporeon
Moderator
We are trying to get a fix now while we have it. As of now, players who have them have deck building advantages over those who have it and its unfair to have a competitive edge like that. While I can play Blastoise with it, the play who plays Blastoise with it has more options for deck space and different supporter lines then the players without it.
That's absolutely true and I do agree with you. I was saying as someone who has sat across from a Trop. Beach and seen in action doesn't bother me. I've thought about it for some time and can manage to work with it or around it. In my deck, I run 3 Frozen City's myself for the deck's strategy and for "Stadium Wars." If my opponent plays 4 Beaches/any stadium, then I am at that disadvantage but still, a good/great competitor can work through it. I had to in two of my LC matches and certainly during the last Nats tournament, where I saw it for the first time.
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