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Africa

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ryanvergel

ryanvergel

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People are still dying.

In 1996, 800 million people worldwide suffered from chronic malnutrition. the sub-Saharan population of Africa is expected to double in 25 years.

When are we going to do something?
 
We probably won't do anything about it anytime soon. I just don't see where we're going to get the funds to help with world hunger especially when we're in an economic crisis.

Wanting to do something about it is great but those feelings fall short if you don't have the resources to fulfill those feelings.
 
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Nothing? When the countries choose to modernize and (a majority of the people) surrender their tribal ways, that's when they begin to change.
 
What do you mean "we," Ryan?

"We," as in us as individuals?

"We," as in our government, which is by the people and for the people?



I believe that "we" as individuals should consider to donate to any genuine charities, including any that would help solve malnutrition. The only catch is that my money shall not land in the hands of a corrupt, brute-run government.

I believe that "we" as taxpayers - controllers of the federal government - should stop with that kind of aid...At least temporarily. It is ineffective, forced, and worst of all, polluted.

We have the biggest debt in the history of humanity...We can (and should) be altruistic, but we have to be mindful of our obligations before our luxuries.

Although tell that to 90% of the United States...What with all these i-Pods, Blackberries, and FY 2009
vehicles, lol.
 
One of the classes that I'm in this quarter actually has been talking about a lot of this, as far as other countries suffering from malnutrition and lack of resources. Many of the reasons these people are still dying is their lack of wanting to modernize. The villages have their own beliefs, and when someone from the outside comes in and tries to help them, few are eager to jump to the new technology. For example, much of the water in these countries are unclean, but they still drink it. Health officials from the US have come to show them the advantages to boiling the water, along with the health benefits. But few in these villages are willing to do so, as their beliefs are that those who boil water are unclean.

Sadly, we can't help them if they are not willing to modernize and change. And I hate to say it, but the US has a great deal of problems on its own. We really need to help ourselves first.
 
Why would we do anything? What is there to gain from helping Africa?
Call that wrong and selfish, but its the truth: Helping out a Continent full of people who still consider Mud Houses and spears to be top of the line technology isn't going to appeal to anyone when we could be helping Asian countries who could actually do something to help us in return.

To put it bluntly, unless someone discovers something of value in Africa the only help they will receive is from hippies and Christian organizations.
 
No amount fo money could fix Africa. Nor could any amount of man power. The poeple there are uneducated, primal in a sense, and care nothing about moving forward as a culture. Not all of the poele of course, but the hefty majority. We could literally rebuild all of Africa into a Giant metropolis, but within a small amount of time it would be ruined by the stupidity, greedy, and tribal bloodlust of the Africans.

General point of my post: We are doing nothing because there is no point in doing anything.
 
Well, there are places that love to be modernize, but it'll take a lot of work which we currently don't or can't do in this time of economy crisis.

Anyways, all that charity money never gets to the problem, only to hands or corrupted leaders.
 
edwarpy said:
Tell me what _you_ are going to do, then I tell what I have done....
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Why does that matter?


If I do nothing, does that change your sense of obligation? Do my actions somehow change the necessity or obligation for you to act?


Why would we do anything?
Because suffering is a bad thing, and it should be avoided. I think the the universalizability of this situation is quite evident- anyone in their situations would want help. Would need help.What is there to gain from helping Africa?
All the resources that an entire, functioning, modern continent can give. A lot.
Call that wrong and selfish, but its the truth: Helping out a Continent full of people who still consider Mud Houses and spears to be top of the line technology isn't going to appeal to anyone when we could be helping Asian countries who could actually do something to help us in return.
Is this an appeal to some sort of ethnocentrism? I couldn't help but sense but some serious racial undertones to this last bit. Are you saying that because they don't have the same technology as us that helping them is not appealing? That it is more appealing to help people with more technology? Wouldn't those with less be more in need? Shouldn't PEOPLE be equal?

To put it bluntly, unless someone discovers something of value in Africa the only help they will receive is from hippies and Christian organizations.
Call me a hippie then. If feeling pity and guilt for allowing my fellow man to starve to death while I enjoy exorbitant spending and consumption patterns makes me a hippie, then rock and roll.
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Responses in bold.

What do you mean "we," Ryan?

"We," as in us as individuals?
Mostly this sense. It is the dire "we". The last resort "we". The dying "we".

"We," as in our government, which is by the people and for the people?
I don't WANT this to be the "we" that I refer to, but if it is the only extension of our general society that can/will do it, then it must be done in this way



I believe that "we" as individuals should consider to donate to any genuine charities, including any that would help solve malnutrition. The only catch is that my money shall not land in the hands of a corrupt, brute-run government.
This is a good idea.

I believe that "we" as taxpayers - controllers of the federal government - should stop with that kind of aid...At least temporarily. It is ineffective, forced, and worst of all, polluted.
I believe in this too.

We have the biggest debt in the history of humanity...We can (and should) be altruistic, but we have to be mindful of our obligations before our luxuries.

Although tell that to 90% of the United States...What with all these i-Pods, Blackberries, and FY 2009
vehicles, lol.

Bingo. Want to blow your mind? Look up the international combined revenue for perfume and compare it to the estimations of the amount of money needed to get Africa modernized.
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I was also hoping someone would mention the genocidal conflicts that have erupted. If we want to be at the seat of power and a beacon of freedom, we need to show that the mass murder of a people is entirely intolerable, and that the world, and the US especially, will never stand for such a thing to exist while it has the power to prevent such a thing.
 
ryanvergel said:
Why does that matter?


If I do nothing, does that change your sense of obligation? Do my actions somehow change the necessity or obligation for you to act?
Click to expand...

Er, read: _done_. You posted the accusatory challenge. And the Socratic questioning is cute.
What's yer plan? Rubber meets the road and stuff...
 
Many times people have a tendency to say "well, if you haven't done anything, I don't have to either" which is not an acceptable response.
 
Cyrus said:
We have the biggest debt in the history of humanity...We can (and should) be altruistic, but we have to be mindful of our obligations before our luxuries.

Although tell that to 90% of the United States...What with all these i-Pods, Blackberries, and FY 2009
vehicles, lol.
Click to expand...
Actually I believe just after WWII ended the national debt was higher. (as a percentage of GDP)
 
I would give my thoughts on this but then someone like DarthPika, Cosplat, or Cyrus would just shoot me down and call me a liberal tree hugger ;/
 
If you simply give a hungry man a fish, he is not hungry that day, but he has learned nothing. Teach the man to fish and he wont go hungry in the future.

Now, the problem with Africa is multiple tribes/groups. They dont all work together. Add in the fact that some parts of Africa are not the best suited to growing food (read DESERT land). As Sam Kinison put it, stop sending food there, move the people where the food is! (much cleaned up, if you remember Sam's work). Therein lies the problem...most of the ppl there dont want to move! If they dont have a ready food source, dont have the resources to import said foodstuffs and desire to live in said "rat hole"....what can you do??

Of course, the biggest thing we can do in Africa is to EDUCATE the young and old! Open their eyes to the rest of the world. To a more modern living. A sewer system. A water cleaning system. With knowledge comes the desire to (possibly) change.

The US gov't, like most gov'ts, only jump into a situation if it BENEFITS them. Africans have been killing themselves for centuries. The Middle East gets into a squabble and the USA jumps in to protect their oil interests. Yes, I am saying the current Iraqi war is all about the OIL. Nothing else. So, until Africa has something to benefit the US gov't, they will turn a blind eye to the genocide going on and let the "liberal tree hugger" charities send clothes, food, etc to Africa.

Keith
 
ryanvergel said:
People are still dying.

In 1996, 800 million people worldwide suffered from chronic malnutrition. the sub-Saharan population of Africa is expected to double in 25 years.
When are we going to do something?
Click to expand...


My problem is the part that is bolded above. What would help them more than anything is if they would quit having children at such an alarming rate. I know that if I were suffering with malnutrition and lack of resources the LAST thing that I would do is keep having kids.
 
PokemansForGeeks said:
I would give my thoughts on this but then someone like DarthPika, Cosplat, or Cyrus would just shoot me down and call me a liberal tree hugger ;/
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GET OFF MY THREAD YOU LIBERAL TREE HUGGER WE DURNT LIKE YOUR KIIIIIIND.

lol. But seriously, I never "shoot [you] down": you just get too emotional about issues that require tons of patience...Precisely because everyone else is so emotional.

Now that I've got my personal call out settled, time for some fun:

Ryan: We have so much more to agree on than not, but "but if it is the only extension of our general society that can/will do it, then it must be done in this way" is where I draw the line. Government can certainly do good in many areas, but almost nothing short of the doomsday (literally...I'm thinking about the nuclear arms race here) should attach the word "must" to government.

Although the "sorta long-term" policies of the Bush Administration are very likely going to be huge for us, such as all our efforts to stem AIDS. I fully expect the Obama administration to continue with this, and maybe even take it further...Just not so far that it becomes what Lawman was mentioning as a problem.

Keith: Speaking of, your "hungry man" quote is perfectly applicable here. I hope that the Obama administration does its best to keep that in mind.



So to all you guys that may've thought otherwise, I'm not saying that it's not worth our time to help Africa - we just have to conscious about our own needs.

Also...Remember that it's not a bad thing to have some selfish motivations for undertaking a task - just make sure that that task isn't being done for selfishness exclusively. Otherwise you're no better than the thugs in Africa. Likewise, as nice as altruism may be, a government can't be exclusively altruistic either.

Instead, we can be both.
 
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