Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Alex Frezza and 2010 National Champion Con Le Banned!!!

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Scizor, I would like to request clarification about something you said:
I'm going to go ahead and just say I heard of a player that received 15 play points to play in U.S. Nationals and/or the Last Chance Qualifier without actually playing an event!
Putting aside argument of "I heard from a friend's friend..." and taking this as true for the sake of argument, are you saying a player was provided with 15 points by TPCi or are you saying that an organizer, or a number of organizers, reported this player as participating in events that he was not present for?
 
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why blame 'hordes of pokeparents' for the nationals drops? i saw plenty of posts on pokemon collecting/fan communities talking about reg'ing at nats to 'get a free shirt'...and the vast majority of members of those sites are teens and college-age adults, NOT parents.

Do you have any proof that a majority of the drops were these "fans"...not attacking rather asking, because most of the ones I saw were parents.
 
i was judging in juniors on the other side of the hall.

if the 'reg'd for a t-shirt' players were round one no shows, how would anyone 'see' who or how old they were?
 
i was judging in juniors on the other side of the hall.

if the 'reg'd for a t-shirt' players were round one no shows, how would anyone 'see' who or how old they were?

There was a lot of talk around the halls about it and a lot of parents freely admiting they only entered for the shirt.
 
Can anyone state that the official reason that there is even a Play! Point requirement for nationals is that because non-players signed up for the swag? This being prevented by the Play! Point requirement could just be a happy coincidence.

State your creditable source and provide a link please.

Anyone with a different reason that comes from an official source please share it.


That being said, Chad, Jay or anyone else who is against a Play! Point Requirement... Can you explain why there is a Play! Point requirement for LCQ? If there is no swag given out at the LCQ, why is there a Play! Point requirement?
 
Even if Alex and Con are indeed guilty as charged that does not change my opinion of TCPI's recent policies. The Play Point requirement is a joke.

I'm going to go ahead and just say I heard of a player that received 15 play points to play in U.S. Nationals and/or the Last Chance Qualifier without actually playing an event! I'm not going to name names but I trust him that this is true. If so, that is some serious favoritism. I mean, you're giving a player who hasn't played all season a free pass? What about me? What about the tons of other players that have played over the years that are forced to get play points? You have got to be kidding me!

I doubt I will even receive a positive response on here and I don't really care. I would bet that TCPI will get many nasty e-mails about this but I have little reason to not make this public. As a company they are being so contradictory and illogical with decisions like this.

Bring it on, TCPI apologists.

Chad: Was this person in the military? A PTO/judge that contributed mightily to their area and didnt get the chance to play? I know TPCi has allowed waivers to the PP requirement when it fit ie military active service personnel.

Keith
 
Why should seniority grant special privileges? This questions is so obvious to the point I'm wondering whether you're feigning ignorance or just being facetious. Obviously, seniority should grant special privileges.

The answer "seniority should grant special privileges" is so obvious that you unwittingly provided the answer to this question in your post. You claim yourself that "Nats it the largest event in America, and is aimed at active and EXPERIENCED players, who compete for a spot at Worlds."

Now think about how experience is measured. Experience can either be measured in terms of the length of time that someone has been playing the game or by the quantity of tournaments that a player has attended. My proposal allows the Play! Point requirement to be waived for EXPERIENCED players who have (1) played for X amount of years or (3) accrued X amount of Play! Points. If Nationals is for active and experienced players to try to compete for a spot in Worlds (as you claim), then my proposal would be perfect.

Let's just take Jaeger as an example. Jaeger has earned several (9?) invitations to the Pokemon World Championships. He has Top 4ed U.S. Nationals a couple times as well. When he becomes a police officer, he will have to work nights and weekends (with inflexible vacation time). There is no chance that someone who has played this long (and is this experienced) in the game is going to sign up for U.S. Nationals to get the door prizes and drop after the prizes are handed out. An unintended consequence of the current Play! Point requirement is that players in good standing that have real life get in the way (and in Jaeger's case, who are serving the country and protecting you and me) can no longer play in Nationals, even if they are competitive and going to make a serious effort to win the event.

Remember, the goal of the Play! Point requirement is not to keep actual players out of the tournament. The Play! Point requirement is a reaction to the hordes of Pokeparents that signed up for Nationals 2011 just to get the door prizes and dropping after the prizes were handed out.

For the record I have been playing the game in some form since its inception, and playing competitively since at least 2005, I only say this because some comments seems to be under the assumption of otherwise. (Not you in specific)

Anyway, if you bothered reading that excerpt in its entirety you'd notice I said it was aimed at someone who was active as well as experienced. Activity is what is in question here not experience. (If that were the case there'd probably be a CP req)

Also again why does should seniority mean anything. If I took a two year break and suddenly decided I wanted to go to Nats, why should I be given favor over the players who have been actively been supporting and playing the TCG during my absence. In this scenario I haven't been supporting or participating in any events, and what's even more, what about players who haven't touched the game since RS? They've had their POP ID since the start, but they haven't done anything since. That's why the Play Point req is a good idea IMO it rewards the players who are active and actually trying.

Lastly if you are a player who has been absent from the game, but chooses to go to Nats so you can meet up with old friends and the like, you can still do that, if that's the main reason you're going then not playing in the tournament, especially since your lack of participation is a clear sign of not being as invested in an invite to Worlds.

In short, why should inactive players who used to play get special treatment and put on the same level as active players (both old and new)?
 
Chad: Was this person in the military? A PTO/judge that contributed mightily to their area and didnt get the chance to play? I know TPCi has allowed waivers to the PP requirement when it fit ie military active service personnel.

Keith

No he was not...it's a rather well known player. Its not my place to say who, but it was on FB.

I don't know the player well, nor am I claiming its true just what has been said.

---------- Post added 05/18/2013 at 10:47 PM ----------

For the record I have been playing the game in some form since its inception, and playing competitively since at least 2005, I only say this because some comments seems to be under the assumption of otherwise. (Not you in specific)

Anyway, if you bothered reading that excerpt in its entirety you'd notice I said it was aimed at someone who was active as well as experienced. Activity is what is in question here not experience. (If that were the case there'd probably be a CP req)

Also again why does should seniority mean anything. If I took a two year break and suddenly decided I wanted to go to Nats, why should I be given favor over the players who have been actively been supporting and playing the TCG during my absence. In this scenario I haven't been supporting or participating in any events, and what's even more, what about players who haven't touched the game since RS? They've had their POP ID since the start, but they haven't done anything since. That's why the Play Point req is a good idea IMO it rewards the players who are active and actually trying.

Lastly if you are a player who has been absent from the game, but chooses to go to Nats so you can meet up with old friends and the like, you can still do that, if that's the main reason you're going then not playing in the tournament, especially since your lack of participation is a clear sign of not being as invested in an invite to Worlds.

In short, why should inactive players who used to play get special treatment and put on the same level as active players (both old and new)?


Isn't that kind of like saying I can go to the Super Bowl without a ticket, but only my friends can watch the game?
 
Is this a joke....like seriously? I cant take this story seriously. Are you sure your not making this up LOL? Anyone who thinks this is a serious issue just hasnt lived life what so ever or has completely lost their mind.

I dont see what was WRONG enough to ban somebody over. Its 2 packs and some imaginary points for a tournament that a guy who already won and another experienced player has probably played in multiple times, this is so petty beyond belief. It just sounds like some uptight jerk with some mental issues took his anger out on someone.

Like seriously, this makes people not want to play this game when you start treating adults like they are children. Who wants to play a game ran by total power hungry wack jobs?? Yeah rules are rules but to act like they are so absolute and to have no understanding and to be extreme about it all makes it absolute ludicrous. We arent 5 year olds that need punishments for spilling milk, to be that aggressive about it just makes incredibly bad taste for the game.

If I was this guys I would probably be telling some people to put some things and shove them things in some places. It seems like TPCi cares more about rules than about people who have invested more time, energy and effort into this than many others. Id just move on with my life, not even worth giving someone my attention if I was treated like that. If anything if I was them I would just be laughing and making jokes about this people since realistically its a joke and to give TPCi power over them makes no sense.

Theres more to life than Pokemon, they had fun playing it, its just probably their time to move on to other things. But if I was the guys that got banned, I wouldnt be that desperate to come back or even let it get to them. If anything it would be funny to give it to the media as a story for the whole world to see what a joke that it is.
 
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Even if Alex and Con are indeed guilty as charged that does not change my opinion of TCPI's recent policies. The Play Point requirement is a joke.

I'm going to go ahead and just say I heard of a player that received 15 play points to play in U.S. Nationals and/or the Last Chance Qualifier without actually playing an event! I'm not going to name names but I trust him that this is true. If so, that is some serious favoritism. I mean, you're giving a player who hasn't played all season a free pass? What about me? What about the tons of other players that have played over the years that are forced to get play points? You have got to be kidding me!

I doubt I will even receive a positive response on here and I don't really care. I would bet that TCPI will get many nasty e-mails about this but I have little reason to not make this public. As a company they are being so contradictory and illogical with decisions like this.

Bring it on, TCPI apologists.

OK, let me see if I got this straight.

Someone, who you won't name,
got a waiver for a reason, that you won't state,
from someone, whom you don't identify,
because of some kind of favoritism, that you won't specify.

And you dare people to defend it.
O.......K....... :rolleyes:
 
OK, let me see if I got this straight.

Someone, who you won't name,
got a waiver for a reason, that you won't state,
from someone, whom you don't identify,
because of some kind of favoritism, that you won't specify.

And you dare people to defend it.
O.......K....... :rolleyes:

I feel like this is skirting the overall issue at hand. With moving the giving out of the "swag" to the end of Day 1, the main widely perceived reason for Play Point requirements at Nationals is no longer relevant. So if the main draw of Pokemon OP is that it is "free" and "accessible", why discourage people from attending the biggest and most important event of the year?
 
Also again why does should seniority mean anything. If I took a two year break and suddenly decided I wanted to go to Nats, why should I be given favor over the players who have been actively been supporting and playing the TCG during my absence.

Saying that you would be "given favor over the players who have been actively supporting and playing the TCg during your absence" is a massive misnomer.

You're not given favor OVER anyone. It's not as if you're taking someone's spot at Nationals. You would be allowed to play in Nationals in addition to all the players who are active. As someone who has played the game for more than a decade, you have likely spent more money on Pokemon products than the "active" players will spend over their entire lifetime. Why should past loyalty to the brand and past expenditures on Pokemon products not be recognized?
 
I feel like this is skirting the overall issue at hand. With moving the giving out of the "swag" to the end of Day 1, the main widely perceived reason for Play Point requirements at Nationals is no longer relevant. So if the main draw of Pokemon OP is that it is "free" and "accessible", why discourage people from attending the biggest and most important event of the year?

Sadly as much as I love Pokemon, the sad reality is that the game just likes to treat people like children regardless of how old they actually are. Granite, the demographic is younger kids, the reality is that the older people are the ones who invest the most money and are the most competitive. I shouldnt even say treat like children, since it seems like TPCi just doesnt even like to treat people with respect, but treat people like they arent even human beings that are capable of making simple errors. Sorry TPCi, your not someones parents, your not sending any messages or doing anything right banning people over something so stupid.

Think about it, a "points system" to qualify for nationals? What other TCG has that? In other TCGs the only other methods of going on to bigger tournaments is by winning other tournaments. I get that TPCi is incentives people to play their game, but to be so strict and to flat out ban someone is doing the complete opposite. As many said, why even give people the opportunity if theres going to be so much bureaucracy behind it? To me it just seems like a personal issue more than it is a OP issue.

Since the fact that this situation came down to this, I just find that to be incredibly disturbing. For some reason its just getting more obvious that this game likes turning people into life lessons more than playing a game. I just notice im starting to see more and more of this and its just sad since all your doing is just giving people bad experiences in something they should have fun doing. Is making examples out of people more important than playing a childrens card game LOL?
 
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Saying that you would be "given favor over the players who have been actively supporting and playing the TCg during your absence" is a massive misnomer.

You're not given favor OVER anyone. It's not as if you're taking someone's spot at nationals. You would be allowed to play in Nationals in addition to all the players who are active. As someone who has played the game for more than a decade, you have likely spent more money on Pokemon products than the "active" players will spend over their entire lifetime. Why should past loyalty to the brand and past expenditures on Pokemon products not be recognized?

If you give players who have been registered longer (which is the group of people you've been talking about) a waive on the prerequisites, then that is favoritism, as you are giving that minority an advantage, because evereyone else has too meet a requirement that they don't have to. It would be an unfair advantage as then they don't have to invest any effort the entire season to participate while the rest of the players have to invest time and effort.

As for rewarding past loyalty, why should they? You aren't supporting them anymore. You aren't attending events, you aren't actively buying the product, and you aren't helping to expand or maintain the game. Saying they should give you a reward for past loyalty is like saying Walmart should reward me for a purchase I made ten years ago. Why reward players who no longer support you instead of focusing resources on the ones who support you now?

---------- Post added 05/18/2013 at 11:54 PM ----------



Before I start I just want to mention that, yes, by the way the rules are written, and intended. The players in question, as far as I can tell, did cheat. It may be unpopular to say as much, but I'm not going to give someone pity for cheating, even if they didn't mean anything by it.

Sadly as much as I love Pokemon, the sad reality is that the game just likes to treat people like children regardless of how old they actually are. Granite, the demographic is younger kids, the reality is that the older people are the ones who invest the most money and are the most competitive. I shouldnt even say treat like children, since it seems like TPCi just doesnt even like to treat people with respect, but treat people like they arent even human beings that are capable of making simple errors. Sorry TPCi, your not someones parents, your not sending any messages or doing anything right banning people over something so stupid.

Pokemon is not only intended for kids, but it also has to keep an environment that is kid friendly. And if anyone doesn't treat you with respect it is more likely you're being overly critical and irrational than it is their fault. (I've seen how people blow up about things they are fully at fault for, blaming a PTO or TPCi when the fault is their own.

Also, they weren't banned for 'making a simple mistake,' by the first post's quote, they just thought it wasn't a big deal, they were fully aware and they didn't bother to talk to the PTO before doing anything. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Tournament staff are not some sort of demon, and they won't spit acid in you face if you go up to ask them a question, and most of the time they will try to help you. This is one of those cases where the accused didn't inform they tournament staff, and the staff reacted as if it were cheating.

Think about it, a "points system" to qualify for nationals? What other TCG has that? In other TCGs the only other methods of going on to bigger tournaments is by winning other tournaments. I get that TPCi is incentives people to play their game, but to be so strict and to flat out ban someone is doing the complete opposite. As many said, why even give people the opportunity if theres going to be so much bureaucracy behind it? To me it just seems like a personal issue more than it is a OP issue.

True, most TCGs have a tier system where you have to compete smaller tournament to enter bigger ones. Pokemon isn't too dissimilar only requiring competing instead of placing highly, it's a compromise that I actually find very fair in that regard, keeping the bar low enough for most average players to enter. However their ban has nothing to do with them being strict with the Nationals, but cheating in a premier tournament, a low tier tournament, but cheating all the same. (Yes, I am saying that having someone else play in your place counts as cheating, and by the rules a pretty severe one at that)
 
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If you give players who have been registered longer (which is the group of people you've been talking about) a waive on the prerequisites, then that is favoritism, as you are giving that minority an advantage, because evereyone else has too meet a requirement that they don't have to. It would be an unfair advantage as then they don't have to invest any effort the entire season to participate while the rest of the players have to invest time and effort.

As for rewarding past loyalty, why should they? You aren't supporting them anymore. You aren't attending events, you aren't actively buying the product, and you aren't helping to expand or maintain the game. Saying they should give you a reward for past loyalty is like saying Walmart should reward me for a purchase I made ten years ago. Why reward players who no longer support you instead of focusing resources on the ones who support you now?

---------- Post added 05/18/2013 at 11:54 PM ----------



Before I start I just want to mention that, yes, by the way the rules are written, and intended. The players in question, as far as I can tell, did cheat. It may be unpopular to say as much, but I'm not going to give someone pity for cheating, even if they didn't mean anything by it.



Pokemon is not only intended for kids, but it also has to keep an environment that is kid friendly. And if anyone doesn't treat you with respect it is more likely you're being overly critical and irrational than it is their fault. (I've seen how people blow up about things they are fully at fault for, blaming a PTO or TPCi when the fault is their own.

Also, they weren't banned for 'making a simple mistake,' by the first post's quote, they just thought it wasn't a big deal, they were fully aware and they didn't bother to talk to the PTO before doing anything. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Tournament staff are not some sort of demon, and they won't spit acid in you face if you go up to ask them a question, and most of the time they will try to help you. This is one of those cases where the accused didn't inform they tournament staff, and the staff reacted as if it were cheating.



True, most TCGs have a tier system where you have to compete smaller tournament to enter bigger ones. Pokemon isn't too dissimilar only requiring competing instead of placing highly, it's a compromise that I actually find very fair in that regard, keeping the bar low enough for most average players to enter. However their ban has nothing to do with them being strict with the Nationals, but cheating in a premier tournament, a low tier tournament, but cheating all the same. (Yes, I am saying that having someone else play in your place counts as cheating, and by the rules a pretty severe one at that)

This idea of cheating seems very subjective. Many people "cheat (or get around)" the system in this game consistently, yet nobody is banned over it. Especially it being very minor in this case.

TPCi is trying to make example out of someone specifically. Its a joke, like Im still wondering if this is even real since it sounds unbelievable. How anyone can take this seriously or even think twice about it is beyond my grasp.
 
This idea of cheating seems very subjective. Many people "cheat (or get around)" the system in this game consistently, yet nobody is banned over it. Especially it being very minor in this case.

Are you sure they're cheating? Have you reported them to event staff? In either of these are no, then make sure. Unless your TO isn't doing their job (in which case submit a ticket to TPCi, and you gotta have some good evidence BTW) then cheaters should be very easy to handle so long as you do your duty as a player to report malicious activity. It isn't subjective, it's strongly defined, specifically to prevent abuse of the rules.

TPCi is trying to make example out of someone specifically. Its a joke, like Im still wondering if this is even real since it sounds unbelievable. How anyone can take this seriously or even think twice about it is beyond my grasp.

What makes you think they're trying to 'make an example,' out of anybody. Cheating is cheating, regardless of the tournament size, and replacing a player mid-tournament is most certainly grounds for severe punishment, even if it IS a prerelease. In some ways the fact that it was a prerelease makes it worse. If they really wanted a proper resolution they should've talked to the PTO and explained themselves before taking matters into their own hands.

And before you say something about it being harmless and had no harmful intentions. The rules don't know that. The Judges won't know that. The TO won't know that. And rest assured TPCi won't know that. Why? Because the players didn't explain it before hand, when they should have.
 
On the subject of Play! Points at Nationals: I find it perfectly fine to have a Play! Point requirement -- though I think 15 might be a little high as it stops players who join the season a little late from joining in on the festivities unless they live in an area with many events and have the time to attend all of them.

If Play! Points are a way of managing attendance or due to the dropping issue mentioned earlier, I think it's a poor way to do it. However, I think requiring players to have some experience with the game before playing at a Nationals level tournament is perfectly fine. It decreases the chances of having to play a theme deck in R1 after all and I'm sure players appreciate that. However, it does hurt players who have been absent from the game for a while but want to get back into the swing of things. For those players, I think the alternate lifetime Play! Points requirement idea that psychup proposed would be great idea. Something like setting it at 3x the current season requirement would surely satisfy many people.

Like it has been mentioned multiple times: Nationals is an awesome time to catch back up with your friends. Even once my day-to-day life has me too busy to attend as many tournaments as I'd like, I still plan to attend Nationals as much as I can to catch up with the friends I've made all over the continent playing this game. The main event is a big part of that and I think those players who have been playing for a long time and love the community should be thrown a bone here.

Edit: Maybe this should be a different thread though?
 
Taking neither side - since I'm retired I can do so and have my opinion not matter. However, consider this: would this even have been an issue had Con and Alex been Canadian (where there is no Play Point requirement for participation in Nats)?

Just out of curiosity, why should Americans be saddled with this point requirement at all? Like I just mentioned, I'm retired, and to be honest, I have no cards which are of use in the current format. I used to be a PTO, and currently still am a professor so I definitely know how to play, but haven't done so for a few years - even when I did play, mostly it was at prereleases. Nothing stops me (as a Canadian) from showing up with a theme deck, or a deck of one pokemon and 59 energy or even borrowing a top deck from an old friend and playing at our Nats. And guess what? My POP id is even lower - in the low 3 digit numbers. But why should I be allowed or disallowed from playing based solely upon my geographical location? How is that fair? EDIT: Perhaps an even better question might be: what would stop me from attending Nats, getting the swag, and not showing up for any of my matches - other than the fact that a trip costing $30 or more in gas and the time and food costs (gotta have my coffee on long trips) would make it unreasonable for me to do so.

Hopefully this post raises some interesting questions.
 
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Taking neither side - since I'm retired I can do so and have my opinion not matter. However, consider this: would this even have been an issue had Con and Alex been Canadian (where there is no Play Point requirement for participation in Nats)?


Yes, players in Canada are held by the same standards as the rest of the world.
 
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