Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Archeops - Viable now?

KazamBolt

KazamBolt

Active Member
Here's why I think that it's a good great card now. This ruling makes it almost overpowered.

The only thing keeping it from being broken is the dumb fossil mechanic.
 
KazamBolt said:
Here's why I think that it's a good great card now. This ruling makes it almost overpowered.

The only thing keeping it from being broken is the dumb fossil mechanic.
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It's a "Decent" card.

The Fossil Mechanic is what's keeping it from even approaching "Good". You need to search the bottom 7 cards of your deck (The toughest area to know the order of) and find 1 Archen. To get Archeops out, you need to jump so many hurdles- Getting the Plume Fossil Trainer, playing it successfully, have Archen survive a full turn, and have/play Archeops.

Sure once it hits, it stops....Gothitelle, Magnezone, Emboar, and Typhlosion Prime. It still has trouble dealing with Zekrom, Reshiram, Tornadus, Kyurem, Cobalion, and Mew.
 
research records helps the whole"search bottom of deck" thing. My question is, do you really plan on facing off against many multi-stage decks? I see this hurting something like primetime most. Even Reshiram can trade prizes at worst. And if they get to play first, they can get out at least 1 typhlosion b4 you can set this up. Will ppl play it? Of course. Will it place t8-t4 in places? Possibly. Can It win? I don't think it can. ZPTS and decks like coballion/kyurem will litter the top tables this season. I just don't see this winning against those decks.
 
djjoe227 said:
The Fossil Mechanic is what's keeping it from even approaching "Good". You need to search the bottom 7 cards of your deck (The toughest area to know the order of) and find 1 Archen. To get Archeops out, you need to jump so many hurdles- Getting the Plume Fossil Trainer, playing it successfully, have Archen survive a full turn, and have/play Archeops.

Sure once it hits, it stops....Gothitelle, Magnezone, Emboar, and Typhlosion Prime. It still has trouble dealing with Zekrom, Reshiram, Tornadus, Kyurem, Cobalion, and Mew.
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1.) Research Records. You wouldn't be looking for an Archen until like the 2nd turn anyways, and your deck will probably have like 40 cards max by that time. If you play 4 Archen, and can look not only at the bottom 7 cards, but also check the top 4 before that, you've seen 11 cards (theoretically) and the probability of finding an Archen is quite high. Now, I know that most of the time, people won't play 4 Archen, but it's just an example.

2.) Archen won't likely be knocked out in the first turn it's on the field. As long as you get it out early enough, the only deck that has the speed and Catchers to get the knockout, basically, is Zekrom. Sure, Donphan and Yanmega could do it too but they aren't as quick usually (even though Archen has a weakness to Grass). But what I was saying, is that if you know you're playing Zekrom, why even get your Archen out anyways? They probably don't play any evolutions.

3.) Yes, it has trouble dealing with those cards, but think about if it were paired with those cards. I'm thinking especially Kyurem here. Kyurem would just clear the opponents field of all basics that aren't legendaries in like 2 turns, leaving you to clean up with Cobalion or Tornadus or something.

I'm not saying it's game breaking, but it is game changing, and it's kind of sad that this may be the 2nd step out of 3 in the death of the stage 2s.
 
If I played this, I'd play 4 archen. I'd play 4 research records as well as 4 junk arm. And I'd try to get 1-2 archen up by t1-2 The question becomes, what do you pair the parrot with? Is it gonna go w/ tornadus, Terrakion,Landorus, or some other big basic? You can't reliably play a second multistager yourself, and this deck would NEED a secondary attacker.
 
I am currently building an Archeops build, and I find it to be quite good when paired with Accelgor and Escavalier, expecially since they can evolve from the deck. Accelgor does a quick 60 for one grass, and Escavalier one shots Kyurem if you hit one Heads with Twineedle (of course, that is given that you have the energy by that time).

Anyway, I feel that Archeops has great potential in this format, stopping a lot of techs before they hit the field if you get it out fast enough.

@ djjoe227 You forgot Vileplume and Reuniclus XD
 
4 Research Records
4 Plume Fossil
4 Archen
2 Archeops

That's nearly 25% of your deck dedicated to getting out a bench-sitting tech. Ok, that's the same amount of space as Vileplume plus Reuniclus, but those cards aren't a complete waste of space vs ZPST.

And the funny thing is, it can STILL fail. Or die to Catcher, or become useless vs a fast Vileplume.

What were they thinking when they came up with this mechanic?

Unless there is some kind of support in future sets, none of these Fossils will be playable imo.
 
who said it HAS to be a bench sitter? It has an attack(albeit a fairly mediocre one). Vs zekrom it can even hit for weakness.
 
baby mario said:
4 Research Records
4 Plume Fossil
4 Archen
2 Archeops

That's nearly 25% of your deck dedicated to getting out a bench-sitting tech. Ok, that's the same amount of space as Vileplume plus Reuniclus, but those cards aren't a complete waste of space vs ZPST.

And the funny thing is, it can STILL fail. Or die to Catcher, or become useless vs a fast Vileplume.

What were they thinking when they came up with this mechanic?

Unless there is some kind of support in future sets, none of these Fossils will be playable imo.
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Although true, I still feel that this has a very good fighting chance. It definitely isn't a top tier deck as of right now due to the Fossil Mechanic, but I do not believe it is a lost cause either. It's a fighting type, which could pair well with Terrakion. They catcher up your Archeops for the KO? Cool, I'll just send Terrakion/Bouffalant to KO you back. But, then again, I could be wrong. As I had posted earlier. I use Accelgor and Escavalier since they are not reliant on the hand to evolve. :]
 
RxWolffe said:
Although true, I still feel that this has a very good fighting chance. It definitely isn't a top tier deck as of right now due to the Fossil Mechanic, but I do not believe it is a lost cause either. It's a fighting type, which could pair well with Terrakion. They catcher up your Archeops for the KO? Cool, I'll just send Terrakion/Bouffalant to KO you back. But, then again, I could be wrong. As I had posted earlier. I use Accelgor and Escavalier since they are not reliant on the hand to evolve. :]
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That can be said about any card though. Alls you need is Energy, specifically fighting for Terrakion, to make that particular action work. It's convenient, but not much more than that. There's minor synergy in that convenience, but fighting is tough to commit energy with, considering it has little to no acceleration and a mediocre attack. Archeops is not something you'd commit energy to.

Kazambolt: Research Records, immediatley followed by Plume fossil, is an OK play- it increases the chances. However, you need to get both cards in your hand, and both are trainers. There are games where I draw 1 energy for 3 turns, and I run about 14 in my decks. 8 is alot lower than 14, so the likelyhood is about the same. Additionally, since you need Plume Fossil to do a specific thing, either you're dedicating the deck to Archeops, or your putting in a "Chance" tech. You either need 4 Research Records, 4 Plume Fossil, and 4/2 Archeops, or you're purely relying on luck.

Also- don't forget that any Archen drawn needs to be accompanied by a Pokemon Communication, Judge, Copycat, or Professor Oaks New Theory. That card is 100% dead in your hand.
 
i think Archeops is viable if you use mew. Assuming you start with mew and a psychic you can send a leavanny EP into the lost zone to evolve your pokemon (basically you have a spiritomb AR now). from this pont on you can evolve your archen to archeops immediately and you can still evolve your pokemon. Jirachi must be played as well to devolve Stage1 and Stage 2
if you use mew, you need some good partners. I think

Zoroark
Lucario COL
Cincinno
Excadrill or a pokemon which can discard energies
(for league Whimsicott, mienshao)
lock pokemon like scrafty or lilligant EP

are good partners because

zoroark: useful against basics. can ko zekrom and reshiram with pp or special darkness, also useful against cobalion
Lucario/Cincinno: your main damage. lucario is useful against zekrom and magnezone but bad against tornadus. cincinno is better against tornadus because you need 1 pp to ko a tornadus
excadrill: can be useful against decks like cobalion/electrode which needs the energy acceleration. excadrill can discard these energies which slows them a bit mroe
Whimsicott gives you energy acceleration. Can be useful with excadrill
lock pokemon: your opponent cant remove the special conditions unless they use switch (cant be evolved because of arcehops)


However if we have a heavy basic meta, i think archeops wont be that good. it can shut down stage 1 and stage 2 decks but you need a t2 or t3 archeops. In order to get a fast archeops you have to play cards which hurts your consistency a lot
 
Maybe I am crazy but if I am using ZPST and playing agaisnt an archeops deck... I am not using my catcher on archeops...
Posted with Mobile style...
 
Nah.

You would need to draw 2 Plume Fossils, and have them both succeed in finding an Archen on the same turn. Otherwise they die to Catcher. This is the exact same reason why you must play 2 Oddish or 2 Solosis down in deck like the Truth. The problem is, they are basics and can be drawn very easily- Archen is not. If you Plume for 1 Archen and it doesn't get Catcher'd for a KO, I'd say you got lucky. Not to mention against decks with attacking Basics, you play sooo many dead cards. It's just... bad.
 
Use Mew and Leavanny or just Leavanny to avoid the archen problem. with leavanny and mew you just need 1 archen in play to get an archeops.

Against basic decks you just play your attackers and you can discard your archen, archeops (although it can be useful against some decks), plume fussil etc by using junk arm
 
Ace- said:
Use Mew and Leavanny or just Leavanny to avoid the archen problem. with leavanny and mew you just need 1 archen in play to get an archeops.
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Actually getting an Archen in play in the first place is most of the problem. You need to devote a huge amount of deckspace to it and it's still hit and miss. Now you want to add a Stage 2 line (and use an attack), or tech Leavanny/Mew (and use 2 attacks - See Off/Lost Link) just to evolve it. How many more cards is that going to take?

Against basic decks you just play your attackers and you can discard your archen, archeops (although it can be useful against some decks), plume fussil etc by using junk arm
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Are you even going to have any room to consistently get out other attackers in this deck? Are you really going to be able to defeat Basic decks when just about half of your own deck is nothing but Junk Arm fodder?
 
Math on Research Record followed by Plume Fossil: You're getting the 4 from the top and the 7 from the bottom, but if you had an Archen in your hand you'd have played a shuffle-draw supporter before hand or a Pokemon Collecter. This is a hypergeometric probability distribution. The probability you miss Archen 11 times is (56/60)*(55/59)...(46/50) = 43.4%, so the chance you hit an (at least one) Archen is 56.6%. You can skew the numbers slightly, for example by considering the smaller deck size. You have the basic you started with and the two trainers in your hand, so modelling it as 7 non-Archen cards outside the deck makes the equation (49/53)*(50/54)...(39/43) = 38.2%, so a 61.8% chance of hitting (at least one) Archen in the 11 cards. Which is only a modest improvement. It's more complicated still than that, ie the chances of actually getting the Plume Fossil in the first place, but it's not looking consistent enough to be fast even with the two trainers and five non-Archens in hand let alone opening with an Archen in hand!

I think it's a donk deck at best. If you hit that Archen, great, if you don't then you lack the firepower to win the prize exchange.
 
The best chance would be if they print a card that allows you to play restored Pokemon from your hand or search the deck via an ability/attack. They've done stuff like this in the past with older fossils, so I wouldn't rule it out here either.
 
baby mario said:
Actually getting an Archen in play in the first place is most of the problem. You need to devote a huge amount of deckspace to it and it's still hit and miss. Now you want to add a Stage 2 line (and use an attack), or tech Leavanny/Mew (and use 2 attacks - See Off/Lost Link) just to evolve it. How many more cards is that going to take?
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well lets see:
2 leavanny
3-4 mew
3-4 plume fossil
3-4 archen
2 archeops
4 research record
1-2 energy search

2 psychic
4 rainbow energy

20-28 cards.

baby mario said:
Are you even going to have any room to consistently get out other attackers in this deck? Are you really going to be able to defeat Basic decks when just about half of your own deck is nothing but Junk Arm fodder?
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i dont think half of the deck is junk arm fodder because only
2 leavanny
3.4 mew (if you play cincinno, zoroark or any other good pokemon for mew it will be useful somehow)
3-4 plume
3-4 archen
2 archeops

=13-16 cards != half of my deck.

are junk arm fodder in my opinion.

energy search, research record, the energy search and the energies can be useful against heavy basic decks

But i didnt play an archeops deck. if i find some time and if i am not too lazy i will build an archeops deck, play against a heavy basic deck (ZPTS e.g.) , a stage 1 deck, a stage 2 deck and a stage 2 deck with a basic pokemon as main hitter (e.g. tyram, emboar/reshiram) and let you know how bad/good the deck is.
 
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