Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Arena Cups 2011

With all Nationals uploaded, even a single Battle Road could make the difference, not to say a K8.

K8 means 2-3 points average per win; supposing at least 5 turns (4 swiss + finals), there's a stake of 10-15 points at least, which is not exactly “nearly nothing”.

If this stays as it is, German players who stand “on the edge” will have the unfair privilege to boost their ranking at the very end of the season, perfectly knowing that the “games are over” in all the rest of Europe.

And in this kind of situation one doesn't necessarily need to be good: sometimes having a lot of friends is enough (if you know what I mean).

If the K-Value counts nothing and these tournaments are just a chance to test the new format and win big prizes, do not make them Special Premier Events, all the more so since it's not allowed by TPCi (unless this is an exception -- and if it is, what Ippe wrote in his post would be perfectly understandable.)

---------- Post added 06/16/2011 at 12:16 AM ----------

UPDATE: They're flagged as (2012) Special Premier Event now. Thanks TPCi!!!!!!!!
 
The thing I'm most concerned is the thing NoPoke mentioned - the flip-flop status on these events. On the day I made this topic they were 2011 Premier Events. A 1 day after I made this topic, they changed into 2012 Premier Events.

Then they just changed mysteriously back to 2011 Premier Events. I'm really intersted why they have flip-flopped so much. I hope that they didn't try to hide the change of the year from players and made the change in the first place just to calm down the discussion. And now they have changed back to 2012 again and probably only because of this discussion. It's the right decision but I'm really disappointed about the way PCI is handling things.

And anyone who says K-8 is a low value has never been 3 points away from winning a Hawaii trip.
 
P!P have to take the responsibility but that does not mean it is they who caused the issue. I understand that the Arena events were always supposed to be 2012 events for ratings purposes. A foretaste of a potential change for when the ratings season might start in future years. Its no secret that many of us want the tournament year spread out a bit more as right now it seems to be compressed into the first four/five months of the new year. The arena events even if many can't get to them are a good thing for the event calendar.

So why were they initially tagged as 2011? most likely an unintended mistake.
Then set to 2012: the correction to what was always intended.
Then back to 2011: no idea. Database issue?
and back to 2012 ..

I doubt that this thread will have influenced P!P much if at all. I expect it did result in some contact from players to P!P. But even then P!P are very careful not to be driven by the latest comment from players or organisers. Such an approach just leads to anarchy.

The arena events are a good thing for all of us. That they have a k value is good too. That the German players get an early start on next season does not hurt either. All rating systems need data, all rating systems work better with more events. So here's to more events and a longer tournament season.
 
From what I understood from my information a while ago the Arena Cup are meant to count for the 2012 season. If TO/LD and TPCi handle the premier santioning buttons independently, I can imagine that there will be some flip-flopping..... Best is to stay tuned and notify TPCi when someone is flip-flopping the buttons again to 2011. After Nationals there is no K-valued tournament for 2011 in each European country!
 
it is bound to be a bit more complicated than that as it is rather easy for players on the European mainland to travel to an adjacent country. The only way that hard and fast rule could work to prevent players gaining a few points after their nationals on the mainland is if no battle roads are allowed after the very first nationals. Excluding the Scandanavian countries as probably a bit far away that would mean that no EU battle roads could count after May 28th. Include the scandanavian countries and no battle roads after May 7th could count: which is nearly all of them.
 
hope u whiners are satisfied now, gosh. Can i make a big fuss because I wanst able to play trhe prague tournament and others have an unfair advantage?

QQ moar

bah -.-
 
Yoshi- said:
hope u whiners are satisfied now, gosh. Can i make a big fuss because I wanst able to play trhe prague tournament and others have an unfair advantage?

QQ moar

bah -.-
Click to expand...
of course you can make a big fuss. But it will make you look foolish so I'd suggest that you don't. Not too sure who is doing the whining in this thread....
 
Dunno what the problem is with the Arena Cup points being moved to 2012.

People get a chance to play competitive HGSS-on before Worlds and earn some ranking points for next season. What's not to like?
 
...they were not supposed to be in 2011... maybe some thought that they should be? The problem was that they were moved to 2011 where they would cause grief to OP and disturbance in the [del]force[/del] ratings
 
To stop the confusion here: All five Arena Cup tournaments will count towards season 2011/2012 rating and have a k-value of 16. This means players will earn rating points for Worlds 2012. And of course, international players are welcomed to play at these events (especially as they are located rather near the borders of than central to Germany / Austria)!

Let's jump-start into season 2012! :thumb:
 
Yoshi- said:
hope u whiners are satisfied now, gosh. Can i make a big fuss because I wanst able to play trhe prague tournament and others have an unfair advantage?

QQ moar

bah -.-
Click to expand...

The Prague Cup is a really bad example. At that point there is an element of risk to playing in a high K Value tournament, considering the high amount of points to be lost that affects those people's rankings for the rest of the season. I figure I'm a good example to use here, I'm around 60th in the rankings and I think around 10 points from an invite. I would essentially have nothing to lose by trying to play this tournament to secure a Worlds invite, as is the same with a lot of other people in my position.

I don't agree with having tournaments with a K value past Nationals if it hasn't been at least talked about in the past, but to put it off limits to the majority of Europeans seems even more unfair to me.

I also find it kind of ironic that you are complaining about people whining :wink:.
 
I just dont see how its any different then any other irregular tournament. Some people couldnt attend the praque cup, some people couldnt attent the benluxicantrememberthenewnamecup, some people cant attend this. just because nats are over this makes any difference? How?

And risk is a pretty bad argument imo because really loosing out in these tournaments is something that happens rarely. And do you honestly believe that no one wouldve complaiend if this wouldve happened the week before our nats?

I couldnt attent praque and benelux but I didnt complain because irregular tournaments happen and you have to accept this but suddenly when another one happens everyone complains and says its so unfair just because, this time, its not to their personal advantage :/?

And I dont buy this "it was supposed to be for the new season anyway" stuff, my guess is that they changed the k value to make up for this change. HGSS on is the format for the rest of the season and all tournaments that happen there, doesnt really mean anything.
 
But you're still getting the tournaments. You get points for next season, nice Prizes, and a chance to test out HGSS-on before Worlds.

Sounds brilliant.

What are you unhappy about?
 
Yoshi- said:
I just dont see how its any different then any other irregular tournament. Some people couldnt attend the praque cup, some people couldnt attent the benluxicantrememberthenewnamecup, some people cant attend this. just because nats are over this makes any difference? How?

And risk is a pretty bad argument imo because really loosing out in these tournaments is something that happens rarely. And do you honestly believe that no one wouldve complaiend if this wouldve happened the week before our nats?

I couldnt attent praque and benelux but I didnt complain because irregular tournaments happen and you have to accept this but suddenly when another one happens everyone complains and says its so unfair just because, this time, its not to their personal advantage :/?

And I dont buy this "it was supposed to be for the new season anyway" stuff, my guess is that they changed the k value to make up for this change. HGSS on is the format for the rest of the season and all tournaments that happen there, doesnt really mean anything.
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I just explained why I think it's different, and I stand by that. The risk argument is extremely important, considering it's a very key factor in how the ranking system works. In order to not give an advantage to players who can attend more tournaments, the elo system incorporates a risk element to tournaments, which punishes players more who have attended additional tournaments and have a higher ranking because of it by giving them less points per win, and takes away more for losses.

As the season progresses, good players find it more difficult to gain the points from tournaments that they did earlier in the season. At 1800 for example, going 3-1 against 1600s roughly breaks even, and I know a lot of people who decide not to play in order to secure their ranking, because they believe the risk to be too large - I wouldn't agree with people rarely not achieving the ranking change they desired.

During Nationals, it's difficult to completely gauge what people need to be near ranking wise, to secure an invite. There are K32 value tournaments happening all over Europe and being updated at different times that most Pokemon players are involved in. Add into this the major prizes on the line that encourage those with high rankings to take a risk on their potential invite. The majority of Europeans won't be involved in these Arena Cup tournaments, and with the final rankings available in time, it's so much easier to estimate what points are needed to take an invite.

The other difference between this and the large European tournaments is that this is at the end of the year! I genuinely don't think playing in the Prague Cup, or the ECC to a lesser extent, is even that great ranking wise. Going into a K32 tournament while everyone else is at 1600 and playing BRs only means that you'll be losing an insane amount of points to everyone else, while struggling to gain many additional points because everyone is ranked so much lower. I had a pretty medicore season until I won a State Championship which nearly secured me an invite by itself, because I was taking loads of points from players ranked higher than me who had started the season better.

No one was whining because they hadn't been given a special advantage, they were annoyed because others had. I'm glad everything has been sorted now, it's for the best.
 
Yoshi- said:
That it got changes because people who had the same benefits before start complaining now
Click to expand...

Do we know that's why it was changed?

You still get the benefits of having more tourneys and more chances to win points . . . only you get them next season.
 
Nemes said:
If this stays as it is, German players who stand “on the edge” will have the unfair privilege to boost their ranking at the very end of the season, perfectly knowing that the “games are over” in all the rest of Europe.

And in this kind of situation one doesn't necessarily need to be good: sometimes having a lot of friends is enough (if you know what I mean).
Click to expand...

I find this quite amusing. If someone has K-value 8 tournaments at the end of season this causes an outcry as if this is the end of the world.
But: Every single year the players at the last Nationals weekend have that very advantage to stand "on the edge" and the possibility to play for rankings at the very end of the season, perfectly knowing that the "games are over" in all the rest of Europe (please note: This is not meant as an accusation, just to a notion to make my point here). No one ever has complained of this very fact and we are talking about K=32 tournaments here (could be because every year some LD´s are sleepy with reporting their Nationals so that this advantage never unfolds - this time it is Germany).

While I perfectly understand the reasoning of those who were against the counting for this season and I absolutely support the decision made by the TPCi, based on the impact in comparison of the impact of the last Nationals some people really have gone ridiculously overboard regarding this topic.
 
Having the last nationals is an advantage. But not as much as you would think. Very few players at nationals will be able to use a play to first loss strategy. Only those that don't play will be certain what their rating will be to within a few points. For everyone else you can't be certain if nationals will tip you over the edge in either direction if your win-loss record is consistent with what elo expects for your performance against a 1600 player.

Advantage and disadvantage are inherent in the way our tournament season runs. Some advantages are just less palatable. I hope that the delay to uploading tournaments is not an attempt to influence the ratings, if you want to have the last tournament of the ratings season then schedule it as such. Next year the UK will have a late June nationals not to have the last nationals but because it fits the holidays and student exams for next year.

I don't believe that there is any conspiracy taking place over the Arena cups.
 
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@Glumanda - I see your point and agree with it; maybe a possible solution could be freezing rankings during Nationals and updating them altogether after the last one? That's something we could suggest to TPCi.
 
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