Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Best decks from the original base set?

W

WastedAaron

New Member
I came across my really old cards from the first generation, and I'm wondering what some of the popular decks were back in the day. If you know of any please link me to either a page that shows all the cards contained or list what you used back in the day if you had one.! :colorless:
 
I find it weird how I've not seen any Electrode (Base) in these old lists. Everybody plays it in Unlimited 150 to recover after energy removals... energy removal is even more common in these old formats so surely it'd be good there too?

I use Electrode in all my 150 decks so I'd at least give it a test if you're going to build a Base-Neo deck. 3-4 energy down in 1 turn (Electrode + Basic energy = 3 or DCE = 4) outside of Raindance is very powerful, even at the cost of 1 extra prize... it's kind of like bringing exs into the old format :p
 
TRAINER HEZ said:
I find it weird how I've not seen any Electrode (Base) in these old lists. Everybody plays it in Unlimited 150 to recover after energy removals... energy removal is even more common in these old formats so surely it'd be good there too?

I use Electrode in all my 150 decks so I'd at least give it a test if you're going to build a Base-Neo deck. 3-4 energy down in 1 turn (Electrode + Basic energy = 3 or DCE = 4) outside of Raindance is very powerful, even at the cost of 1 extra prize... it's kind of like bringing exs into the old format :p
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A format where everyone and their brother runs 3-4 copies of Hitmonchan, which can donk voltorb for a single attachment even without pluspower, is a bad format for electrode.
 
Not to mention that there isn't any Broken Time-Space/Wally's Training, so Voltorb will need to spend a naked turn even if it isn't alone.

Enter Gust of Wind.

"gg" Electrode
 
If the format is pre-NG, then Do the Wave Wigglytuff was the big deck.
Whatever Pokemon you use, load up on Trainers.
 
I agree with Pokepop. Its a good deck and it contains my favorite Pokemon in it, adding twice of the awesomeness of it. So let's (singing) "Do the wave, do the wave, do the wave."
 
TRAINER HEZ said:
I find it weird how I've not seen any Electrode (Base) in these old lists. Everybody plays it in Unlimited 150 to recover after energy removals... energy removal is even more common in these old formats so surely it'd be good there too?

I use Electrode in all my 150 decks so I'd at least give it a test if you're going to build a Base-Neo deck. 3-4 energy down in 1 turn (Electrode + Basic energy = 3 or DCE = 4) outside of Raindance is very powerful, even at the cost of 1 extra prize... it's kind of like bringing exs into the old format :p
Click to expand...
Electrode/Zapdos was popular at the earliest tournaments. It died because Rain Dance and Haymaker just worked better.
 
I used to use a 4 corners variant of Haymaker back in the day.

Mewtwo/Hitmonchan/Scyther/Electabuzz.

Had success with it, and it was tremendously fun!
 
TRAINER HEZ said:
I find it weird how I've not seen any Electrode (Base) in these old lists. Everybody plays it in Unlimited 150 to recover after energy removals... energy removal is even more common in these old formats so surely it'd be good there too?
Click to expand...

Actually, it is because Energy Removal and Super Energy Removal were so common that Base Set Electrode was largely ignored after early testing, from what I gather. Assuming you successfully Evolved into Electrode and used Buzzap, it was quite probable that your opponent would drop an Energy Removal or Super Energy Removal to discard it pronto.

"Haymaker" decks used Gust of Wind, S/ER and Scoop Up to leverage inexpensive attacks (plus PlusPower) against whatever the opponent was running. You would almost always need to drop a double Voltorb to guarantee you got at least one off, making it quite likely you ultimately burned two Prizes for Energy acceleration your opponent could anticipate. Throw in Type-matchingand/or PlusPower spam and/or the 70 HP on Haymaker Pokémon and decent "big" attacks on Haymaker Pokémon, and even if you didn't get the Energy discarded via Trainer... it was likely to hit the discard pile anyway as your opponent pulled off a quick KO to whatever received it.

TRAINER HEZ said:
I use Electrode in all my 150 decks so I'd at least give it a test if you're going to build a Base-Neo deck. 3-4 energy down in 1 turn (Electrode + Basic energy = 3 or DCE = 4) outside of Raindance is very powerful, even at the cost of 1 extra prize... it's kind of like bringing exs into the old format :p
Click to expand...

If WastedAaron (and company) play without Super Energy Removal and Energy Removal, a 2-2 (or more) Electrode line shows a lot of promise in my own (admittedly limited) testing. Pokémon like that hit for 70+ damage can actually stand a good chance against Haymaker decks; you might give up one, two, or even three Prizes (including whatever they are doing to your other Pokémon), but Haymaker decks count on you being unable to OHKO their attackers, so they can wear you down and/or power-up others.

If S/ER is present, it isn't too good of a strategy. Decks from this time period that I was familiar with ran at least a total of four Energy Removal and Super Energy Removal combined, plus two to four Item Finders... in a format where you have Professor Oak (Professor Juniper as an "Item"), Bill (also functioning as an "Item" back then), and Computer Search (run in threes or fours, since it wasn't an Ace Spec back then). A conservative Haymaker deck would likely have a total of six and even a full 4-4 wasn't uncommon.

---------- Post added 04/11/2013 at 08:24 PM ----------
~Blazi-King~ said:
I used to use a 4 corners variant of Haymaker back in the day.

Mewtwo/Hitmonchan/Scyther/Electabuzz.

Had success with it, and it was tremendously fun!
Click to expand...

That isn't so much a "variant" as "the standard". I mean, the original was supposed to have been developed based on Japanese spoilers of the Base Set or something like that, and didn't have Scyther (a card from Jungle) or Mewtwo (since it was the "movie promo" version that was good), but they became pretty standard after being released.

If you didn't see Mewtwo, you were likely to see Fossil Magmar or a less versatile but much more reliable Hitmonchan/Electabuzz/Scyther build). I went so far as to running Potpourri, a Haymaker sub-type that had a solid Basic attacker of each Type (and Fossil Ditto for good measure). Less room for all the usual Trainers and a bit prone to "misfiring", but it was scary strong otherwise. Before said Mewtwo, it just ran either Mr. Mime (Jungle) or Jynx (Base Set).
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
Mulligan Mewtwo was always fun to play at the old Wizards of the Coast store.
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People actually used it? Anyone I've ever known who tried it took it apart after realizing that the deck basically boils down to "sit and do nothing until your opponent draws an Energy Removal".
 
@ShadowCard

What is "Cleaner"?

Also, I just read the Bulbapedia article on Haymaker. It is pretty much unreliable, as it misses that the basic definition of a Haymaker deck is that it contains no Evolutions. There is more to the definition than that, but simply put if a deck contained an Evolution, it wasn't a Haymaker deck.
 
Otaku, I guess your question answers the question about how much it was played. :rolleyes:

I only heard about it years later.
http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1618489&postcount=16

---------- Post added 04/13/2013 at 09:53 PM ----------

Agreeing with Otaku, the bulbapedia article is not a Haymaker. Haymaker's focus was BBP (Big Basic Pokemon) and "Trainermon." It would have run way more and more consistent trainers. So 4 Professor Oak, not 1. 4 Pluspower, not 2. Less basic energy cards.

Wizards of the Coast produced a magazine called TopDeck. It was their magazine featuring all the news about their games and what strategies were going on.

The September 2000 issue featured an article on what they called "Rainbow" decks. They took a list that is typical of a league kid (it's actually a bit more advanced) and the two editors added their own twists to it. The editor "Josh" made the deck resembling a Haymaker. The list:
TopDeck September 2000 said:
3 Electabuzz
3 Hitmonchan
1 Kangaskhan
3 Magmar (Fossil)
3 Scyther

2 Bill
4 Energy Removal
3 Energy Retrieval
4 Energy Search
2 Gust of Wind
2 Professor Oak
2 Scoop Up
4 Super Energy Removal

4 DCE
5 :fighting:
6 :fire:
4 :grass:
5 :lightning:
Click to expand...
I guess you could call it a "fun" varient Haymaker, see how the trainers are more concentrated. There's a lot of energy in the deck. The focus is more of a league-level deck.

Later, in December 2000, another article was released and featured the "Tournament-Caliber Haymaker Deck". The list:
TopDeck December 2000 said:
1 Chansey
2 Ditto
3 Electabuzz
3 Hitmonchan
4 Scyther

2 Blaine's Last Resort
3 Computer Search
2 Gust of Wind
3 Item Finder
2 Lass
2 Misty's Wrath
2 Nightly Garbage Run
4 Pluspower
4 Professor Oak
1 Resistance Gym
3 Rocket's Sneak Attack
2 Scoop Up

4 DCE
7 :fighting:
6 :lightning:
Click to expand...
Even here, the trainers look a bit "funny." This issue was the promoton of Gym Challenge so Gym cards worked their way into the list and it may be too new for what you are looking for. However, the main goal is still intact: Blaine's Last Resort, Misty's Wrath, the 4 Prof Oak, allow you to plow through the deck to make sure you get what you need to support the pokemon. It is pretty much the same thing we do now in BW-On: use a N or Juniper (or something that allows a massive draw) to get the Level/Ultra Ball, Dark Patch, Crushing Hammer, and anything else. Compare this deck's 30 count trainers to Bulbapedia's 14. The Bulbapedia article is effectively asking you to play with 4 Cheren and 1 Juniper with a few Pokemon Communication. Try that and come back to tell us how great that deck is :rolleyes:

On offense, the PlusPower is quantity 4. The Bulbapedia article lists 2 but in its summary it mentions getting 4 onto a single pokemon :rolleyes:

Lass was also the more effective trainer denial, not Dark Vileplume. That applies to any pre-Gym deck. Lass is the way to go.

An even truer Haymaker will run even less basic energy cards and instead add Rainbow energy. Turn 1, attach Rainbow to Scyther and Swords Dance. Turn 2, attach DCE and use Slash for 60. The Bulbapedia version works with that idea. Rainbow energy serves all types and is useful because all the pokemon except Chansey attack for 1 energy.

I'd be running No Removal Gym instead of Resistance Gym. Not sure what that is about.

Trainer preferences and energy counts may be different depending on the player, but the point of Haymaker is in the fast pokemon and the use of trainers to max out their effectiveness.
 
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Evolution techs weren't completely unheard of in Haymaker, though. Aerodactyl was occasionally used late in the deck's life.
 
Tash said:
Evolution techs weren't completely unheard of in Haymaker, though. Aerodactyl was occasionally used late in the deck's life.
Click to expand...

I don't have the original article handy, but I do have an article written by Justin Fowler a.k.a. BondiBorg a.k.a. Obsol33t (the latter being the screen name he was using at the time of writing). As I can never remember the board linking rules adequately, just Google "Professional Pokémon Terminology How to communicate your deck ideas like a Pro" and it should be the very first matching item. The article was written back in 2006 because of concerns that useful terminology, even terms coined by Pokémon players for the Pokémon TCG, were being stripped of their useful meanings and used more and more generically.

I realize that this sounds pretty conceited being all "You're using it wrong!", but we are discussing an older iteration of the game, and even if one believes the modern usage is best, you can't understand older articles substituting the current definition for the definition from that time period. In short, the structure (see the article) of Haymaker decks isspecifically defined as "No Evolutions", the same way that the structure of a "No Energy" or "No Trainers" deck is explicitly defined in such a way. "Haymaker" decks just happened to be named for the second attack on Base Set Hitmonchan, or rather a translation of the Japanese version (or so the story goes).

If you added Evolutions (barring something that could play itself as a Basic Pokémon), you really didn't have a "Haymaker" deck, just a "beatdown" deck. "Beatdown" decks are a basic archetype of many TCGs, that focus on winning through hitting hard, hitting fast, and hitting reliably as long as such a mechanic is viable in a specific TCG.
 
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