Black and White rules out of the box

[Pikabruce]

This means the player can play Item, Supporter and Stadium cards on the first turn.
However, it is still the case that neither player may Evolve Pokémon on the first turn.

So I assume this means that, although Broken Time-Space can be played on the first turn, it can't be used until the second turn?

 

[Time for Pain]

^not what it's saying. The norm is that you cant evolve first turn. BTS allows a "break" in that rule.

 

[ShadowGuard]

I guess this is a clear indication that we get a mid-season rotation. The new Rare Candy rule would be completely pointless if BTS still was in format.

 

[fawfulgengar]

@ShadowGuard:

>Implying if and when we do get a rotation it will be HGSS-on. XD

 

[Gym Leader Blaine]

So the rules will be legal before the cards themselves are? :lol:

That's funny.

The booster packs offically are on sale on Monday April 25th. That is when the new BW rules will go into effect and not before.

 

[butlerforhire]

Japan implemented these new rules in an HGSS-on format. The rest of the world is being forced to implement them in an MD-on world. There is something terribly wrong here.

PUI is haphazardly trying to mix in the new with the old, and the two DON'T mix. MD-AR were clearly never meant to be governed by the B&W revamped rules. If they had been, then why did Japan abruptly shift its format to HGSS-on? It was no coincidence. They knew exactly what they designed. PUI apparently doesn't.

Allowing a player to use all the trainers he wants on his first turn with SABLEYE in the format is absurd (not to mention all the rest of the donk components that are only found in MD-AR such as Poketurn, Uxie, Crobat G, Pokedrawer, Expert Belt). The implementation of these rules is going to have drastic negative consequences for our format. Japan had none of the issues we are inevitably going to have because their format was altered to accommodate the new rules. Our format is apparently not being altered, unless a midseason rotation is going to be sprung on us or more specific (and unusual) actions such as individual card bans/erratas/restrictions take place.

I don't think that we will see any of the latter, although of course we all know that none of those things are unprecedented (bans on Sneasel and Slowking; erratas happen regularly, such as right now with Rare Candy; restrictions on trainers in Prop15).

 

[Gym Leader Blaine]

To put it straight, TPCi is doing a huge injustice to the game by taking the sets into their hands, and literally shredding and pasting the sets back together. It's a horrible, horrible thing, even if they want to use the 'health of the format' as an excuse.

Try and give TPCi credit for all they do with our sets. If we went to the same type of release as Japan were they are putting out sets, mini-sets, and then just starter decks at different times throughout the year players would complaint that we are not getting new sets every quarter of the year like we use to. If it is not one complaint it is another it seems like.

We can only see very little into the future from what we know Japan has released, where as TPCi can see months past that. Im sure they know what the next couple of sets Japan is working on releasing and already try to figure on how to make those sets so that we still get new sets every 3 months. There is a lot of time and hard work that goes into make our sets, so give them a break for all they do.

 

[Prime]

Okay, I've calmed down a bit.

This is my problem with the situation.

Some games have restricted/ban lists. Yugioh has one. After a set comes out, after a certain amount of time, a new ban/restricted list is posted, and it tells the players how many of each card is allowed to be played.

Nintendo has instituted a make-shift ban list on the game in their manipulation of the cards in sets. They literally banned Lost World for 3 months before releasing it later. They are literally banning Pokemon Catcher, Gothetelle, Beartic, etc, from the new set for 3-to-who knows how long.

I understand that this is their game, but Japan has designed sets really well and in my opinion, I think Nintendo is screwing them up by moving cards around.

I think someone nailed it right. There's going to be another filler set soon. All these good cards are going to be put in that set. Nintendo will make twice as much money off of a single set of cards.

But what do I tell new players? Go buy a little of this and a little of that? Sure, Nintendo would love that. No, honestly, I tell them, go buy singles online, or heck, give me your money and I'll buy them for you. Black and White could have been an amazing starting set for new players, but Nintendo messed it up by removing cards and filling it with BASIC ENERGY, like we didn't have BASIC ENERGY last set!

It's just a shame. Nintendo is driving the quality of the sets way down, and really quickly, actually. Triumphant was still a great set, even though the Lost Zone elements were removed. Call of Legends could have been a fantastic set, but ended up being sub-par because of poor choices on Nintendo's part. Black and White could have been an amazing set, but is going to be sub-par for the same reasons. The next set may be a great set, but it's not healthy for the game to have 2 poor choiced, poorly designed, poorly manipulated sets, for every 1 stable, untouched, nicely designed set.

I'm not buying a single booster for this set. I wouldn't recommend anyone else do the same. I plan on buying singles online. The set just isn't worth my money. Ironically enough, Nintendo may make more money by having 1 set cut into two, but they will lose a lot of money from players who won't spend a single penny on the set.

Poor choices, Nintendo. Really poor choices.

 

[Nintendan]

UBER-EPIC WALL 'O' TEXT

I can agree with you about this set not being as new-player-friendly as it could. Would've been nice to keep all the cards JP got. Like you said Japan organizes their sets very well. But we just get our sets terrible and the fact they seem to delay cards for some weird reason is stupid.

Btw: It's not Nintendo that do this stuff, isn't it TPCi?

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Some games have restricted/ban lists. Yugioh has one. After a set comes out, after a certain amount of time, a new ban/restricted list is posted, and it tells the players how many of each card is allowed to be played.

Ban/restrict list is part of what makes YGO so godawful in the first place. Pokemon is at least smart enough not to design broken cards.

I understand that this is their game, but Japan has designed sets really well and in my opinion, I think Nintendo is screwing them up by moving cards around.

Let's give some benefit of the doubt here. Let's presume that TPCi is not run by idiots or mental patients. Let's presume that they know the cards that are coming and plan these sets months in advance -- which they have to, because of print lead times if nothing else.

So there is method to the apparent madness. Unfortunately they don't share the method, so most of us are left to ask "what the #@$! were they thinking". But I like to think there is rational justification for their choices besides pure corporate greed.

I think someone nailed it right. There's going to be another filler set soon. All these good cards are going to be put in that set. Nintendo will make twice as much money off of a single set of cards.

Or maybe the point is to hold back some cards that would really screw the current format.

Fact is, this is one of those all-too-common can't win scenarios for TPC. If they rotate mid-season, they have to deal with all the messes that creates. If they leave the format as is, they have to deal with what's already been cited in this thread. Either way the PokeGym Hate Machine drags out the torches and pitchforks and proclaims the decision as the Ruination And Imminent Death Of The Game (tm). Have I pretty much called how the rest of April plays out?

 

[Gym Leader Blaine]

Black and White could have been an amazing starting set for new players, but Nintendo messed it up by removing cards and filling it with BASIC ENERGY, like we didn't have BASIC ENERGY last set!

Just my thoughts on the Basic Energy, does this set need it. Yes!

Why, becaues of what you said new players. They need the Basic Energy to make their decks. Now for players like you and me that have been around for awhile, do we need it, No. I have been playing since Jungle set came out. I have thousands of Basic Energies from all the set released over the years, and that doesn't include the ones I use for my Prerelease events. But I do understand the reason for having the Basic Energies. I have seen kids come to events with decks full of Pokemon, but hardly any energies to play the deck they made because they didn't get any energies in the packs their parents bought them. I always keep extra energies on me just to help the new players. With the release of the BW games we are seeing new players show up to events. When they buy packs of BW, they will get some of the energies they need to make their decks.

As for the energies in our last set, I love the foil look of them. Since they were a little harder to get they were more for the collectors then they were for getting energies into new payers hands. This is what the BW set will do.

 

[Skitty]

So I was reading over the setlist in the first post. Was that Pokeball a typo or are we actually getting an errata for Great ball without it actually being in the set? :lol:

 

[baby mario]

TPCI has a real problem.

B&W HAS to come out now . . . we need a set and it ties in with the videogames.

I dunno how much say they have in what rulebook we get. It's possible that they had no choice - B&W set, B&W rules.

Everyone is screaming for bans and mid-season rotations, but they are not ideal either. Nintendo doesn't do bans and changing the rotation would be massive.

Yeah YGO and other games have a banlist. Do they solve all these problems? Hell no. Every YGO banlist in history has generated more whining than anything TPCI has ever done. 'I spent $300 on a playset of banned cards', 'Deck X is utterly crap now', Deck Y is obscenely broken now', etc etc.

Looks like they have TRIED to fix it a bit by not including a couple of cards that might cause problems (Max Potion and GoW)

If they ARE doing a filler set next to include JPN structure decks, at least it will have decent stuff in it (Gothicmon, Ice Bear, Trainers).

Like most players, I wish we had the same format/releases that they do in JPN, but it doesn't look like that is possible.

 

[Amt]

as dumb as the question may be, I can still Darkness Grace my first turn of the game right?

 

[Prime]

Just my thoughts on the Basic Energy, does this set need it. Yes!

You're totally right about the basic energy. My comment about it was split-of-the-moment and wasn't well founded. The basic energy in CoL are ridiculously rare, another horribly poor choice for Nintendo.

Why do I keep saying Nintendo and not TPCi (a smaller part of Nintendo)? Because I don't put all the blame on TPCi, the guys who organize the tournaments. Sometimes it's people in marketing that has the say over which cards get printed. Sometimes it's other people. Whoever it is, it is someone in Nintendo, even if it's Nintendo of Japan.

I love the guys (and gals) at TPCi, that is why I say Nintendo.

Ban/restrict list is part of what makes YGO so godawful in the first place. Pokemon is at least smart enough not to design broken cards.

EXACTLY. But Nintendo is constituting a ban list, only doing it the opposite way. They ban the cards before they come out and then release them later. How else do you describe their actions towards Lost World, Pokemon Catcher, etc?

So there is method to the apparent madness. Unfortunately they don't share the method, so most of us are left to ask "what the #@$! were they thinking". But I like to think there is rational justification for their choices besides pure corporate greed.

You're right that TPCi (and Nintendo) plan this stuff out months ahead. But I think there is also the possibility that things happen exactly for financial reasons. Some thing, not all things, but you must admit some things happen for money reasons. And thus we can't always assume there is a greater reason for (currently viewed) poor choices.

I doubt we will ever see a good reason for all the poor choices that went into Call of Legends. Upping the rarity of the 11 SRs, making basic energy SR rarity, reprinting 8/11 SRs as Holos (that are completely unplayable -- SRs work alright, but not foils), some great and okay reprints, some horrible.

Or maybe the point is to hold back some cards that would really screw the current format.

Withhold some cards that would really mess up the format (speculation) so that the current cards that are SEVERELY messing up the format (not speculation) continue to go wild?

I don't get that logic.

I agree that there can be times when TPCi or Nintendo has lose-lose scenarios, but I honestly feel that communication can bridge most problems. TPCi nor Nintendo have communicated in any form or idea that they were going to alter the Japanese Black and White set. Nor will they probably at all. That's the problem. Nintendo can go all willy nilly on sets, slicing and dicing them, moving cards all around. Who cares how the japanese originally planned them.

I feel really bad for what the Japanese people had to go through recently. I expect there may be a shortage of sets because of that, but these changes to the set were made before that incident, and I honestly don't think Nintendo has good reasons for it.

I don't buy the 'for the health of the game' excuse. SP is destroying the competitive game, and these new cards weren't going to make it worse, no more than the First-Turn rules did.

 

[Cetra]

as dumb as the question may be, I can still Darkness Grace my first turn of the game right?

Yes.

Barring Sableye, I'm actually ok with all this. I would LIKE a midseason rotation, but giving me a cure to one of Gigas's biggest downfalls by allowing me to collector t1 is fair enough.

 

[Akimbo]

So can you still t1 spiritomb evolve?

 

[NoPoke]

So can you still t1 spiritomb evolve?

yes.

And a pointless second sentence to get past the 17 character minimum: Assuming your spiritomb is still active for your T1 that is.

 

[Akimbo]

yes.

And a pointless second sentence to get past the 17 character minimum: Assuming your spiritomb is still active for your T1 that is.

true but sablelock was still around. Any word of the early rotation?

 

[neophenx]

So the new PlusPower wording just killed Shuppet and Uxie decks, as well as my 2009 Starmie Boomerang tactic. Then again, loss of Moonlight killed the Starmie Boomerang long before this lol