Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Call Energy vs. Collector in DialgaChomp

K

King of Japan

New Member
Is it better to run 4 Collector and 3 Call or 4 call and 3 Collector in DialgaChomp? also please post why you think one is better than the other.
 
King of Japan said:
Is it better to run 4 Collector and 3 Call or 4 call and 3 Collector in DialgaChomp? also please post why you think one is better than the other.
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I still to this day believe that a line of four Collector should only be used in cases where you have evolutions in your deck and have less chance of multiple basics to start. In SP, the correct play will always be a 3-4 spread in favor of Call Energy. I would almost argue to run two Collectors because you have the Cyrus Engine, but just in case both would be prized, it's good to run three. Four, in an SP deck, where nearly all you have are basics, is a complete waste of space.
 
Lancun said:
I still to this day believe that a line of four Collector should only be used in cases where you have evolutions in your deck and have less chance of multiple basics to start. In SP, the correct play will always be a 3-4 spread in favor of Call Energy. I would almost argue to run two Collectors because you have the Cyrus Engine, but just in case both would be prized, it's good to run three. Four, in an SP deck, where nearly all you have are basics, is a complete waste of space.
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wait what? You're saying running four of a card that only gets basics in a deck of basics is bad? I don't really follow your logic on that part. It can get me any pokemon in my deck except lv. x's so your post kinda confuses me.
 
ATTN:

Please do not take what Post #2 said seriously. LOGIC and CONSISTENCY will show you that a card that can search out 3 basics in a deck BUILT AROUND BASICS is a good choice to max out. Collector is an amazing card that doesn't discriminate against SP or Evolution decks and should be ran in all decks, IMO.

In personal testing, I prefer 4 collector and then being able to hit 4 sp metal, 4 dce, 2 warp, 2 metal, 2 psychic for a solid energy count. Call is a solid energy in any deck running Garchomp C, though, so I can see fitting it in as well, if you can find the room, but I definitely wouldn't go over 15 energy.
 
Austino said:
ATTN:

Please do not take what Post #2 said seriously. LOGIC and CONSISTENCY will show you that a card that can search out 3 basics in a deck BUILT AROUND BASICS is a good choice to max out. Collector is an amazing card that doesn't discriminate against SP or Evolution decks and should be ran in all decks, IMO.

In personal testing, I prefer 4 collector and then being able to hit 4 sp metal, 4 dce, 2 warp, 2 metal, 2 psychic for a solid energy count. Call is a solid energy in any deck running Garchomp C, though, so I can see fitting it in as well, if you can find the room, but I definitely wouldn't go over 15 energy.
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I don't see how what I said has any major flaws. Running 4 Calls maxes your chances for a T-1 Power Spray, which while everyone hypes to death, is in fact just as deadly as they make it sound. It gives Setup decks like Machamp and Gyarados, two challenging non-SP matchups, some real grief. On top of the fact that Call Energy can be used for an extra energy for Garchomp so he doesn't get KO'd by Ambipom. This is especially disruptive when you take cards like Cyrus' Initiative, which is a decent, less-explored play in SP, but really hurts decks like Gyarados when you A) Spray their Regice that they just used a Collector for, and B) Initiative their Magikarps away.

Similar plays are seen in Machamp, where you can Spray their Uxie, then immediately Initiative their Champ away the very next turn. Not letting your opponents' game ever get off the ground has always been a sound strategy, and that's more easily accomplished with Call Energy, not Collector. Even if you don't run Initiative, you can still cause serious problems with the Turn-1 spray, which is really difficult to get without Call.

Once you've used one Collector, you're pretty much in the clear when it comes to SP, at least in 90% of the matches I've played using DialgaChomp, Sablelock, and BLG. Why run four when you can search it with Conspiracy? Why run four when after you've even used one, you're not likely to ever use it again unless you burn the cards you've gotten for Bebe's/SP Radar, neither of which are relevant plays when SP reaches the dozen-plus hand size somewhat commonly, and there's many worse cards to flush with Bebe's/Radar. Why run four when Dialgachomp has easily the most air-tight skeleton of ANY SP deck and you're always scrambling just to find the room for techs?

Four is only a decent play in decks like Gyarados, where you're more likely to use it twice a game. This eliminates the issues you can have where 5% of your games, two are prized. Not to mention that, unless you're teching in a Conspiracy or Staraptor, YOU CAN'T SEARCH IT. Seriously, why do people forget how Broken SP is when they can search out ANY of the cards that are more difficult for others to search for. Energy Exchanger just put it over the top. Not to mention, cards like VS Seeker, which is used to a criminally low degree, can re-use those Collectors/Bebe's/PONT/etc. Further making the remainder of what Collectors are in your deck dead weight.
 
I've played 2 Collector in both Dialga and in Luxchomp with pretty solid success. You just don't need to use it that often, but when you do, it's there for you by way of Cyrus.
 
meh. Cut the Calls and run other consistency cards. 3 Collector is the perfect amount tho.

If you have the room for Calls, then by all means, run them.
 
Lancun said:
I don't see how what I said has any major flaws. Running 4 Calls maxes your chances for a T-1 Power Spray, which while everyone hypes to death, is in fact just as deadly as they make it sound. It gives Setup decks like Machamp and Gyarados, two challenging non-SP matchups, some real grief. On top of the fact that Call Energy can be used for an extra energy for Garchomp so he doesn't get KO'd by Ambipom. This is especially disruptive when you take cards like Cyrus' Initiative, which is a decent, less-explored play in SP, but really hurts decks like Gyarados when you A) Spray their Regice that they just used a Collector for, and B) Initiative their Magikarps away.

Similar plays are seen in Machamp, where you can Spray their Uxie, then immediately Initiative their Champ away the very next turn. Not letting your opponents' game ever get off the ground has always been a sound strategy, and that's more easily accomplished with Call Energy, not Collector. Even if you don't run Initiative, you can still cause serious problems with the Turn-1 spray, which is really difficult to get without Call.

Once you've used one Collector, you're pretty much in the clear when it comes to SP, at least in 90% of the matches I've played using DialgaChomp, Sablelock, and BLG. Why run four when you can search it with Conspiracy? Why run four when after you've even used one, you're not likely to ever use it again unless you burn the cards you've gotten for Bebe's/SP Radar, neither of which are relevant plays when SP reaches the dozen-plus hand size somewhat commonly, and there's many worse cards to flush with Bebe's/Radar. Why run four when Dialgachomp has easily the most air-tight skeleton of ANY SP deck and you're always scrambling just to find the room for techs?

Four is only a decent play in decks like Gyarados, where you're more likely to use it twice a game. This eliminates the issues you can have where 5% of your games, two are prized. Not to mention that, unless you're teching in a Conspiracy or Staraptor, YOU CAN'T SEARCH IT. Seriously, why do people forget how Broken SP is when they can search out ANY of the cards that are more difficult for others to search for. Energy Exchanger just put it over the top. Not to mention, cards like VS Seeker, which is used to a criminally low degree, can re-use those Collectors/Bebe's/PONT/etc. Further making the remainder of what Collectors are in your deck dead weight.
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Yeah, because you have spray, call, and initiative in your opening hand each game. Awesome logic there. Spraying a regice? Heard of Junk Arm? What about the next turn when they Regimove again? Playing Calls out of hope that you'll have everything else in your hand is the wrong reason to run calls. You're also assuming that you started with an SP pokemon, and not an azelf, smeargle, Q, or uxie. You can't search for Call either, so that point is absolutely silly. (Though there are ways to search out supporters AND call energy if you're willing to sac consistency for them, which you didn't point out).

It's not about collectors being dead weight, it's about not running into crappy opening hands because you don't run 4 collector. Call can't get you a Set Up, but a Collector can. Any higher end player will tell you that the more Collector you run, the more likely chance you'll have it in your opening hand, which is more beneficial than Call Energy.
 
Austino said:
Yeah, because you have spray, call, and initiative in your opening hand each game. Awesome logic there. Spraying a regice? Heard of Junk Arm? What about the next turn when they Regimove again? Playing Calls out of hope that you'll have everything else in your hand is the wrong reason to run calls. You're also assuming that you started with an SP pokemon, and not an azelf, smeargle, Q, or uxie. You can't search for Call either, so that point is absolutely silly. (Though there are ways to search out supporters AND call energy if you're willing to sac consistency for them, which you didn't point out).

It's not about collectors being dead weight, it's about not running into crappy opening hands because you don't run 4 collector. Call can't get you a Set Up, but a Collector can. Any higher end player will tell you that the more Collector you run, the more likely chance you'll have it in your opening hand, which is more beneficial than Call Energy.
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A) Gyarados isn't going to be using Junk Arm T-2 unless it manages a VS Seeker to Recycle its Collector. Or if it's running SSU, which not every Gyarados deck is running anymore.

B) So getting your reserved Garchomp or Dialga out T-1 where you can't use Collectors is a bad strategy? Or just getting Uxie out in case you already have the Lv.X in your hand but not the base form? You could sacrifice set-up for being able to start using Trade-Off the very next turn. It may not be the case for DialgaChomp, but SP tends to THRIVE on multiple Level-Ups per turn. It's what makes Luxray so easy to abuse. Dragging up a fat Pokemon with Bright Look then sniping a key benched with Garchomp in one turn. Prior to that, you've turned your Luxray so you're already in a position to do it again next turn. Many SPs need to set the tempo turn-one, and unless they're facing Sableye, they have a 50-50 shot of starting Turn-One. What if you start with a lone Crobat G, but in your hand have Luxray X or Garchomp X, or even both?! Why would you NOT want the option to Call them, then begin wrecking the opponent the very next turn?

This goes hand in hand with that ridiculous statement you made regarding starting with a junker Pokemon like Unown Q, Azelf, etc, that can get wrecked by your opponent the very next turn. What if you have to go first with those Pokemon? All the more REASON to run Calls there. To try your best to keep horrid starts like that from happening. Enjoy scooping because your opponent turned over an Uxie to your Unown Q, and you didn't manage to top-deck another basic. Call could take advantage of starts like that, because they started bad as well, it's just that your basic was much, much worse.

I only mentioned the Spray because I thought you at least knew the other uses of Call, but obviously I was wrong.
 
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Lancun said:
A) Gyarados isn't going to be using Junk Arm T-2 unless it manages a VS Seeker to Recycle its Collector. Or if it's running SSU, which not every Gyarados deck is running anymore.

B) So getting your reserved Garchomp or Dialga out T-1 where you can't use Collectors is a bad strategy? Or just getting Uxie out in case you already have the Lv.X in your hand but not the base form? You could sacrifice set-up for being able to start using Trade-Off the very next turn. It may not be the case for DialgaChomp, but SP tends to THRIVE on multiple Level-Ups per turn. It's what makes Luxray so easy to abuse. Dragging up a fat Pokemon with Bright Look then sniping a key benched with Garchomp in one turn. Prior to that, you've turned your Luxray so you're already in a position to do it again next turn. Many SPs need to set the tempo turn-one, and unless they're facing Sableye, they have a 50-50 shot of starting Turn-One. What if you start with a lone Crobat G, but in your hand have Luxray X or Garchomp X, or even both?! Why would you NOT want the option to Call them, then begin wrecking the opponent the very next turn?

This goes hand in hand with that ridiculous statement you made regarding starting with a junker Pokemon like Unown Q, Azelf, etc, that can get wrecked by your opponent the very next turn. What if you have to go first with those Pokemon? All the more REASON to run Calls there. To try your best to keep horrid starts like that from happening. Enjoy scooping because your opponent turned over an Uxie to your Unown Q, and you didn't manage to top-deck another basic. Call could take advantage of starts like that, because they started bad as well, it's just that your basic was much, much worse.

I only mentioned the Spray because I thought you at least knew the other uses of Call, but obviously I was wrong.
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A) Bad gyarados lists don't run SSU, and yeah, they get Karps out T1 thanks to Impersonate.

B) Coming from someone who plays SP extensively, there's only one scenario when you should call for an Uxie, and that's if you know they're about to explode with a Machamp and you call for uxie/lucario with Uxie X or a method to grab it in your hand. SP decks do not THRIVE on multiple Lv. Up per turn, they thrive on control and shutting down threats before they are doing too much damage. I never claimed Call Energy to be a bad card, or even state that it's unneeded. I was simply pointing out that you disregarded the importance of Collector as something that can easily be ran like a tech supporter when it's much more vital than Call Energy. Call ends your turn to bench two pokemon, Collector doesn't end your turn and can bench 3. Call can't abuse coming into play powers, Collector can.

The deck in question is DialgaChomp, not SP in general. DialgaChomp hinges on SP metal, warping to the bench, and DCE's. You have to run basic energies to search out with cyrus, so good luck fitting >2 basic energies, 4 dce, 4 sp metal, 2 warp, and call energy in your deck while keeping consistency. DialgaChomp (and any other SP deck for that matter) needs 4 collector to remain consistent. A dead card late game is better than not getting to a late game because you couldn't hit a card that lets you grab your Uxies, Chomps, Zongs, etc.
 
I cut call from my list in favor of another belt ( i was only running 1) a 2nd basic metal and a 3rd dialga g. I'm having a lot of trouble fitting in energy exchanger. any advice?
 
Shuffle draw =/= consistency...

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