LegendCallerL
Member
Bad example. Heavy Storm's on the Forbidden list now.
Catcher? Will it ruin the format?
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Bad example. Heavy Storm's on the Forbidden list now.
Otaku
Active Member
Plus the comparison just doesn't work on multiple levels. I'd compare Pokemon Catcher (and similar card effects) to Change of Heart (and similar card effects). Still not quite the same because trust me, Change of Heart (and its related cards) are just so powerful that it isn't until we get to like the second, third, even the fourth attempt at nerfing the Change of Heart-style cards in Yu-Gi-Oh that we get an equivalent power level for comparing the Gust of Wind-style Pokemon cards.
vaporeon: A well built deck shouldn't still have a fighting chance against the kind of Trainer-lock we see in Modified. First and foremost, only a really bad opening hand for you or an opponent running a combination of hand control with Trainer lock should truly shutdown your deck. This is Pokemon. Draw/search cards are plentiful, and unless your opponent manages an amazing offense fast, they'll just be delaying your own set-up. This isn't even a matter of true Trainer lock but Item Lock: you still have Supporters, usually the driving force of a deck! If Vileplume is the source of the lock, odds are the rest of their deck isn't especially strong. Build something good up on your Bench and then plow through their attackers while building your own next attacker. Without Trainers for his/her own deck, the Vileplume player has to play smart to outpace you. If Vileplume is late to the field, they may even be fighting against a prize deficit. Gothitelle has it even harder: since it has to be Active if your opponent doesn't set-up multiples you just have to KO it! Not an easy OHKO (especially without Items) but a good deck should be able to sacrifice a Pokemon or two and take it down.
vaporeon: A well built deck shouldn't still have a fighting chance against the kind of Trainer-lock we see in Modified. First and foremost, only a really bad opening hand for you or an opponent running a combination of hand control with Trainer lock should truly shutdown your deck. This is Pokemon. Draw/search cards are plentiful, and unless your opponent manages an amazing offense fast, they'll just be delaying your own set-up. This isn't even a matter of true Trainer lock but Item Lock: you still have Supporters, usually the driving force of a deck! If Vileplume is the source of the lock, odds are the rest of their deck isn't especially strong. Build something good up on your Bench and then plow through their attackers while building your own next attacker. Without Trainers for his/her own deck, the Vileplume player has to play smart to outpace you. If Vileplume is late to the field, they may even be fighting against a prize deficit. Gothitelle has it even harder: since it has to be Active if your opponent doesn't set-up multiples you just have to KO it! Not an easy OHKO (especially without Items) but a good deck should be able to sacrifice a Pokemon or two and take it down.
They are a business that makes money off of the players over here. They are not some group of people mass-producing cards out of the goodness of their hearts. If they didn't make money off of the player base, you could bet they'd stop having tournaments.
ogremarauder
New Member
They would have to be at least a little lucky to have another copy next turn. I don't care how much draw support you play, you can only have 4 copies in ur deck. (sans junk arm) Takes luck to have 2-4 of something you can only play a max of four in your first couple turns.
---------- Post added 08/22/2011 at 11:53 AM ----------
If someone is "sniped" by a catcher, they can always play a twins and get right back into things.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Junk Arm is the key here. With 4 Catcher and 3-4 Junk Arm, you don't have to be all that lucky to use Catcher on the next turn.
Wouldn't having Twins in hand when needed require at least as much luck?
ogremarauder
New Member
twins works anytime you have less prizes, it's still effective a turn or two later if you draw into it. I do see that junk arm powers the cycle though. So junk arm is broken ,not catcher. It can recycle any trainer, not just catcher. Catcher would be unabusable w/out Junk arm. Junk arm is the culprit. Why not a "Junk arm- will it ruin the format?" thread?
ogremarauder
New Member
^probably 4-5 of them even:lol::lol::lol:
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Junk arm is not overpowered in itself.
It's only as good as the available Trainers allow it to be.
It's only as good as the available Trainers allow it to be.
ogremarauder
New Member
^Available trainers aren't "broken" without Junk arm. BTW, Which came first- The chicken or the Egg?
Austino
New Member
Neither catcher or junk arm are "broken" or "op" considering that neither of them are consistency cards. If someone wants to take consistency space out of a deck to run said trainers, that's at their own expense. It's all about opportunity cost, what am i willing to give up to obtain the gust?
It will shift the meta, but will not ruin it considering they can fit into ANY deck.
At least this Gust isn't tied to an SP engine...
It will shift the meta, but will not ruin it considering they can fit into ANY deck.
At least this Gust isn't tied to an SP engine...
^A deck only needs so much consistency. Before Catcher, 4 Reversal and 3 Junk Arm were easy fits on top of 11 draw supporters and 2 pokegears in my stage 1 deck. I simply dropped the Reversals for Catchers and now the deck is twice as broken. Junk Arm is consistency to an extent because you can get back consistency cards with it (Pokegear, Communication). Especially Pokegear; you have no idea how many games I've won because I Junk Armed for a Pokegear with a dead hand.
As far as Twins, that's just baseless Theorymon. Because any speed deck trying to exploit the first turn advantage (Yanmega, Donphan) won't want to run more than 2 Twins. Running 4 would be pointless and cut on both speed and consistency way too much. Also, if you're waiting turns on end to topdeck Twins, what do you think your opponent will do to your setup in that time? They'll probably be taking a prize a turn. And Twins can't be used to win the game, unlike Catcher.
Since when has direct bench manipulation without any cost not been broken? Even Warp Point was borderline broken even though it was a good card for the game. It's a safe bet there will be a BW-on format eventually, and you can still bet Catcher will be in every deck. Destroying my opponent's techs plus a couple free prizes? Yes please. It will be better than now - I'm looking forward to Junk Arm getting out of here as it allows people to play their trainers sloppily, but Catcher will still be broken. Luxray X was broken and it could only be used as a come-into-play power.
As far as Twins, that's just baseless Theorymon. Because any speed deck trying to exploit the first turn advantage (Yanmega, Donphan) won't want to run more than 2 Twins. Running 4 would be pointless and cut on both speed and consistency way too much. Also, if you're waiting turns on end to topdeck Twins, what do you think your opponent will do to your setup in that time? They'll probably be taking a prize a turn. And Twins can't be used to win the game, unlike Catcher.
Since when has direct bench manipulation without any cost not been broken? Even Warp Point was borderline broken even though it was a good card for the game. It's a safe bet there will be a BW-on format eventually, and you can still bet Catcher will be in every deck. Destroying my opponent's techs plus a couple free prizes? Yes please. It will be better than now - I'm looking forward to Junk Arm getting out of here as it allows people to play their trainers sloppily, but Catcher will still be broken. Luxray X was broken and it could only be used as a come-into-play power.
LunarWolf21
New Member
LegendCallerL
Member
Well, for 8 more days at least.
LunarWolf21
New Member
Yu-Gi-Oh's banlist has never been perfect in my opinion anyway, though they try their hardest. Heavy Storm is a tough call.
A format can exist with or without Pokemon Catcher/Heavy Storm, as proven by Pokemon Catcher (which is effectively Gust of Wind for this sentence's example) and Heavy Storm not being brought back in their respective games till recently.
Overall, I'd say both cards add a certain sense of skill to the game, but without the cards, more deck types are playable. So it comes down to personal preference.
vaporeon
Moderator
Yugioh is a game that can't be saved, no matter how hard they try. Pokemon on the other hand is a very special game. You can chain to Heavy Storm with a Waboku and other traps and in most cases, you'll be losing a Mirror Force. You can't chain to a Pokemon Catcher. All you have to do is watch you attack you were trying to get into the game get killed off and set you back 3 turns. The game needs to go back the way is was.
- Basic Pokemon did what basic did and tried to help with setup.
- Basic Legendaries had some power but most of the time had about 90 or less hp unless EX, LV.X and could be okay but not format changing in terms of attacks. Look back at the basic EX Pokemon.
- Stage 1 Pokemon that could evolve did not really do much to advance you in anyway and a few had attacks that could help.
- Stage 1 Pokemon that could not Evolve had good HP and were somewhat in between stage 2 Pokemon. They worked off their abilities to be good most of the time.
- Stage 2 Pokemon were to be the most powerful they could be with out being too broken and most played the role as bench sitters but could attack when needed.
Now, we have basics that play the role of stage 2 Pokemon and stage 1 Pokemon that are too fast and with catcher in mix, you have a unhealthy format. A card becomes broken when it overcenturalize the format in a negative way. Catcher puts a limit on what can be used.
Running heaver lines of pokemon is not skill. All it does is make you use much needed card space to make sure you can get a line or 2 going and what people seem to be forgetting is that catcher is in the same format as Junk Arm. We go back to fast decks, donks and trainer lock, just like last format. Then again, some people like it like this but its still unhealthy for the game.
- Basic Pokemon did what basic did and tried to help with setup.
- Basic Legendaries had some power but most of the time had about 90 or less hp unless EX, LV.X and could be okay but not format changing in terms of attacks. Look back at the basic EX Pokemon.
- Stage 1 Pokemon that could evolve did not really do much to advance you in anyway and a few had attacks that could help.
- Stage 1 Pokemon that could not Evolve had good HP and were somewhat in between stage 2 Pokemon. They worked off their abilities to be good most of the time.
- Stage 2 Pokemon were to be the most powerful they could be with out being too broken and most played the role as bench sitters but could attack when needed.
Now, we have basics that play the role of stage 2 Pokemon and stage 1 Pokemon that are too fast and with catcher in mix, you have a unhealthy format. A card becomes broken when it overcenturalize the format in a negative way. Catcher puts a limit on what can be used.
Running heaver lines of pokemon is not skill. All it does is make you use much needed card space to make sure you can get a line or 2 going and what people seem to be forgetting is that catcher is in the same format as Junk Arm. We go back to fast decks, donks and trainer lock, just like last format. Then again, some people like it like this but its still unhealthy for the game.
XYZ_Sniper
New Member
Learn your stuff, it's back in September and has been in a lot of previous formats.
LegendCallerL
Member
Look 4 posts above you. Someone already said that and I know it was limited before and thanks to Lunarwolf21, I know it will be in September. Didn't I say "now" anyway?
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