Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Countries without a Nationals

Well Mystery that is 3-1 in favor of Open Nats now :)

This isn't a vote.

Just because 3 of us are in somewhat agreement (I'm actually kind of ambivalent on the subject) doesn't mean that anyone is right or wrong.

The discussion is worth having and considering the pros and cons is worthwhile.

The "problem" is that people in countries that don't have Nationals don't have a chance to qualify for Worlds.

Aside from opening up Nationals, does anyone have any other ideas?

(I don't think that "too bad" is a reasonable response.)
 
The best idea for the players can't possibly happen from an organizational standpoint. The best idea for the players is that each player can only participate in one single National Championship, no matter what nationality or citizenship they hold. The problem with this is that it would be a logistical nightmare to either (a) keep track of all Nationals participants or (b) ensure that Nationals is on the same day worldwide. Not to mention that LDs probably wouldn't be happy giving a trip to an "outsider"...
 
Well Mystery that is 3-1 in favor of Open Nats now :)

And which country are those three from?


Americans probably don't care because the number of non-Americans that would want to play in US Nationals is a very small number, even moreso now that it's not at Origins. But the number of Americans that would choose to go to Canadian or Mexican Nationals due to a) distance, and b) smaller playing field would be a hugely significant number - as I already stated, I honestly believe that each year Canadian Nationals is in Toronto that Americans would outnumber Canadians. Which is stupid.

Open Nationals is not the way to go. This would still require some way to restrict them to one Nationals per person, but all you have to do is let players who live in a country without a Nationals ONLY to play in a foreign Nationals tournament. The number of people that would fall into that category would be a extremely small number.
 
The best idea for the players can't possibly happen from an organizational standpoint. The best idea for the players is that each player can only participate in one single National Championship, no matter what nationality or citizenship they hold. The problem with this is that it would be a logistical nightmare to either (a) keep track of all Nationals participants or (b) ensure that Nationals is on the same day worldwide. Not to mention that LDs probably wouldn't be happy giving a trip to an "outsider"...

One thing you could do is to impose stiff penalties on someone if they DO choose to participate in multiple Nationals.

2 year ban. How about that? Better yet, 5 year ban.
 
I would love the idea of an open-nationals (I am Canadian). I think it would be interesting that I could play many of new faces and also play in a huge event (People of the USA are lucky because their Nationals is HUGE).
 
I would love the idea of an open-nationals (I am Canadian). I think it would be interesting that I could play many of new faces and also play in a huge event (People of the USA are lucky because their Nationals is HUGE).

See Mystery 50% of all Canadian Pokemon Players Polled Support an Open National Championship Tournement.

In all serius now. Under my proposal No one player could ever win an invite or trip to worlds if they play outside of thier native country. So no LD would ever be in a positon to award a trip and invite to a foregin citizen. FOreners could particpate in the Natioal championship and win any Trophy or other swag awarded to what ever positon that they finish in. But they would be ineligable for any invitations to worlds or trips that were for finishing in that position. That way all trips and invites would be awarded to the native players of the host county of that particular nationals.

I also agree that a player should only be allowed to particpate in one National level event each Pokemon season,
 
See Mystery 50% of all Canadian Pokemon Players Polled Support an Open National Championship Tournement.

Again not a poll, but the fact that I am a Canadian, raises the ratio above the 500 mark. I think the openness of the game as a whole is definitely not a US versus the rest of the world issue or a stealing prizes issue, its more the case of small markets like Canada not having access to the number and quality of tornamets as our friends south of the Border. Protectionism whether its in Global Trade or Pokemon, is never a good thing.


I also agree that a player should only be allowed to particpate in one National level event each Pokemon season,

In the past I would have agreed with this with the K value for the national championships being so high, but with them now at the same level as States and Regionals, I can't see how this would be an issue. I prefer the concept of having the non-residents dropped in the last Round of Swiss precisely because it could be easily effected in the tournament setting. In truth, I'd like to see ID for players anyway at a nationals level event particularly to verify ages, a drop list for the last round of Swiss could be made and posted so everyone was aware where they stood in the Swiss Rounds relative to the Top Cut Line.

From the perspective of the Canadian Nationals last year I can see this as a large win all around.

1) The more chance my family and I get to meet Poke-players from around the globe, the more we enjoy the game (pretty much there's no better reason than this). More competition means more enjoyment.

2) The Cdn championship was after the US championship meaning that ranking points were very valuable to those US players wanting to make a rankings invite who either couldn't make US nationals or had a bad day. Even without the lure of prizes or titles, my guess is we'd have had a number of US players.

3) US players would have come up from the North West to play in Vancouver, which would have proably meant more rounds of Swiss in which US players on the edge of a Ratings invite could have made it in. Similarly a few Canadian players such as myself, one more win in the Swiss would have probably put a couple more Canadians into Contention for Rankings invites who got cut in the T8/16.

4) More rounds of Swiss favour the better skilled players rather than the more lucky players, therefore the Canadian Top Cut, probably would have been stronger (no Question, without luck I wouldn't have even been in the Top Cut)

5) I would have finally met JandPDS



I know this probably isn't going to change anytime soon, but IMO that is a pity!
 
Yeah... definately shouldn't be open.

The number of invites are adjusted for the player base. There would be at least one person who goes to Malaysian Nationals (something like... 8 juniors last year?) and get an easy invite.

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I would love the idea of an open-nationals (I am Canadian). I think it would be interesting that I could play many of new faces and also play in a huge event (People of the USA are lucky because their Nationals is HUGE).

No, we aren't, that is the hardest tournament to win worldwide. You kids got it lucky up there. :thumb:
 
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Yeah... definately shouldn't be open.

The number of invites are adjusted for the player base. There would be at least one person who goes to Malaysian Nationals (something like... 8 juniors last year?) and get an easy invite.

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No, we aren't, that is the hardest tournament to win worldwide. You kids got it lucky up there. :thumb:


It depends if you want to get to play new people at Nationals or at Worlds.

Apparently I am in a minority. Oh well. I still think open Nationals is a really horrible idea.
 
In all serius now. Under my proposal No one player could ever win an invite or trip to worlds if they play outside of thier native country. So no LD would ever be in a positon to award a trip and invite to a foregin citizen. FOreners could particpate in the Natioal championship and win any Trophy or other swag awarded to what ever positon that they finish in. But they would be ineligable for any invitations to worlds or trips that were for finishing in that position. That way all trips and invites would be awarded to the native players of the host county of that particular nationals.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but we had open Nationals in 2004 and 2005 in Europe.
And even with trips trickling down (there were extra invites given if "foreigners" ended T4) there were people not liking it. And those lobbied hard to get closed Nationals.

However I am still in favor to have WORLDWIDE Regionals, with an invite for the winner (no trip).
 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we had open Nationals in 2004 and 2005 in Europe.
And even with trips trickling down (there were extra invites given if "foreigners" ended T4) there were people not liking it. And those lobbied hard to get closed Nationals.

However I am still in favor to have WORLDWIDE Regionals, with an invite for the winner (no trip).

What I am proposing is different then what happened in 2004 and 2005 (where we also had open Nationals here in N America as well) There would be no need for "extra" invites as a player particpating in a Nationals outside of thier native country would not be eligable to win a trip or invite to worlds in that event. So a Mexican could become the Canadian National Champion. but the trip/invite would be passed down to the next highest placing Canadian citizen.
 
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On a personal level, I'm not for or against the idea of having an open nationals. Realistically on the other hand it wouldn't be the best of ideas to allow open nationals (at least for canada). Canada's PTOs (as good as they are) DON'T have the resources to run a national championships big enough to accomidate the american players. An extra 100 players would leave us with huge registration and inbetween round delays. Not to mention extremly cramped quarters. True, space can be delt with, but we just don't have the staffing power....
 
On a personal level, I'm not for or against the idea of having an open nationals. Realistically on the other hand it wouldn't be the best of ideas to allow open nationals (at least for canada). Canada's PTOs (as good as they are) DON'T have the resources to run a national championships big enough to accomidate the american players. An extra 100 players would leave us with huge registration and inbetween round delays. Not to mention extremly cramped quarters. True, space can be delt with, but we just don't have the staffing power....

You know if an American player posted that they would be shouted down for being Anti-Canadian.
Honestly I find it hard to believe that the PTO's in Canada are incapeable of being able to run a large Nationals in Canada. I believe that your Canadian PTO's are just as smart as thier American Counterpaerts. I belive they would be able to handle it just fine. And heck if you are turely worried about numbers just run Candian Nationals the very same day as the US Nationals are held.
 
I would love the idea of an open-nationals (I am Canadian). I think it would be interesting that I could play many of new faces and also play in a huge event (People of the USA are lucky because their Nationals is HUGE).

Though, calling the tournament Nationals wouldn't make sense then.
 
Though, calling the tournament Nationals wouldn't make sense then.

Why not. The French Open is the National Tennis Championship of France is it not? How prestigeous would it become if it was announced that only French citizens would be able to compete in it next year?
 
Why not. The French Open is the National Tennis Championship of France is it not? How prestigeous would it become if it was announced that only French citizens would be able to compete in it next year?

We already went over this, no it is not. You can't compare this to any sporting event. The French Open is one of the Grand Slam stops, and the only reason it's the "French Open" is that it happens to be in France. You never, EVER hear the winner referred to as the "French national champion."


And quite frankly, sdrawkcab is right about the staffing issue. At the 2008 Canadian Nationals, we had one HJ, and four other judges - one for juniors, one for seniors, two for masters. And even at that, one of the two for Masters was from Washington. At the 2007 Canadian Nationals, I think there was one HJ and then six other judges, a number of which were barely old enough to be Professors, and there were times where that showed. Any and all runners we get are parent volunteers for pretty much any premiere event at any level. Really, from what I've seen over the year, you could count the number of people that should be judging a Nationals-level event in this country on your hands. For the entire country. That's no knock against people who do judge here, but a much smaller player base will naturally equate to a much smaller pool of top-level judges. How many we have is a fairly proportional size to our Nationals. 5 to 7 judges works for 140 people. It's not ideal, but we make it work. How many judges do you see at US Nationals? Is it not multiple dozens? If even 100 Americans showed up for our Nationals, you would be waiting for a really, REALLY long time to get a judge if you had a problem.

I have all the respect in the world for Canada's three (is it four now?) PTOs. But no matter how good they are at PTOing, the simple fact of the matter is that we probably run our Nationals understaffed as it is, forget if we added in 100+ US players. The delays would be beyond comprehension. And keep in mind that we have, as far as I know forever, done our Nationals in hotels, not convention centers like the US does. In 2007 the space was, quite frankly, WAY too small, and this year it was pretty much exactly the right size. Our Nationals barely hit 140 people, forget the 1000+ that the US gets. If Americans began to come up, we would have to start using convention center space, and I don't think any PTO here is too interested in getting into the costs for that.

I can see why the players would maybe want it to be open. I can also see why, from a players point of view, it's a really bad idea. But as somebody that's been on the judging/running side of the coin for three years now, I can't think of a single possible good thing from the POV of the organizer/staff that would come out of having Nationals be open.
 
K well an Open nationals, likes canada would be an uter disaster, no canadians would get trips to worlds because of all the americans that come, it would be like a secound US nationals, the only person that would make it to worlds thats canadian would be Paul A and he's one of the best in hte world.
 
K well an Open nationals, likes canada would be an uter disaster, no canadians would get trips to worlds because of all the americans that come, it would be like a secound US nationals, the only person that would make it to worlds thats canadian would be Paul A and he's one of the best in hte world.

Have you read anything here at all? No native player of the host country would ever loose an invtie to worlds under this proposal. International Players could place and win a countries National Championship but they could not get a placing trip or invite to worlds via competing in it. All trips, and trips with invites would be passed down the the next highest finishing player of the host country.
 
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K well an Open nationals, likes canada would be an uter disaster, no canadians would get trips to worlds because of all the americans that come, it would be like a secound US nationals, the only person that would make it to worlds thats canadian would be Paul A and he's one of the best in hte world.

You really need to get out more and play against more canadians.
Paul isn't the only canadian to top 4 at worlds.
 
Paul A isnt the only good Canadian player (nothing against him as he is a fantastic player, he is among the top Canadians) because there are others I can easily name of the top of my head but, I won't to avoid trouble. I would personally love having an open nationals just for a challenge because it would feel great to win a huge event. I admire Gino as he must be crazy good to be the newest National Champion in the USA. Anyways, I think Canadians should have an open nationals with pass-down travel awards
 
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