Current Format = Dice Rolls (Canadian Nats Report)

[chrataxe]

Because him losing two games due to his Yamna with 50HP getting one-shotted on the first turn has anything to do with Babies...

Considering the Tyrogue can't do 50 and that happened to him twice, I say it has little to do with the luck of the flips and more to do with the luck of his opponents hand and his inability to get another pokemon in play. Either way, it has nothing to do with the luck of the flip. Granted, he never got a turn, my point is it's not the flip that lost him the game, it was 2 god hands. The ability to either start with the lone Tyrogue or the cards needed to get Tyrogue AND have the ability to get 2 Plus Powers on T1 goes way more than a flip.

And, for what its worth:

Round 3: cites a baby as a potential donk
Round 5: Cites opening a lone baby
Round 6: Opens Yanma to Cleffa, collectors for Tyrogue, doesn't donk but still insist he won due to the quick KO
Round 7: Cites opponent opening with a lone baby
T16: Opponent opens lone baby, collector for Tyrogue donk

The OP's point wasn't about babies, it was about T1 deciding the game. My point was that if babies weren't in play T1, barring some stupidly bad luck (both of his losses), there never would have been an issue.

And, for the record, TC is best of 3. He lost the first one because his opponent dumped their hand to 1, rendering Copycat and Yanmega worthless...that is good playing, not bad luck.

Crap luck? Depends on how you look at it. He claims to have had a LOT of good hands and lucky top decks. The only 2 misfortunes he had all day was his opponent opening with a god hand.

 

[Jahikoi]

Considering the Tyrogue can't do 50 and that happened to him twice, I say it has little to do with the luck of the flips and more to do with the luck of his opponents hand and his inability to get another pokemon in play. Either way, it has nothing to do with the luck of the flip. Granted, he never got a turn, my point is it's not the flip that lost him the game, it was 2 god hands. The ability to either start with the lone Tyrogue or the cards needed to get Tyrogue AND have the ability to get 2 Plus Powers on T1 goes way more than a flip.

I think you overestimate how difficult it is to get a pluspower and a junk arm, or two pluspowers in one turn - especially when you can use juniper. If you start tyrogue, you have the next 13 (or more) cards in which to draw any of those two.

 

[sdrawkcab]

Wait, who are you again?

Good times, tis a shame our poker game didn't turn out better for you. Those starting hands it holdem seem to be really crutial.

 

[KAZUTO!!!]

Totally agree, wayy too many flips in this format. Good job on Top 8 though.

 

[pokemaster1970]

How did you get donked game 1 when Tyrogue's attack is not affected by weakness or resistence? You should've still had 20 HP left, not OHKO........

 

[ATJdragon]

2 pluspower. happened again vs the same guy in top cut as well. that guy has seb's number in that regard lol

 

[Swordfish1989]

Whatever they decide to do, they have to give SOME advantage to the person going second. I think the best thing is to allow them to play T/S/S, but not attack. Allowing the T/S/S means they can protect themselves against their opponent's ability to donk, but it keeps them from ending the game before the other player even draws a card. They already get to evolve first anyway since we have no BTS and Rare Candy is nixed so I feel it's fair.

 

[Ninja]

Whatever they decide to do, they have to give SOME advantage to the person going second. I think the best thing is to allow them to play T/S/S, but not attack. Allowing the T/S/S means they can protect themselves against their opponent's ability to donk, but it keeps them from ending the game before the other player even draws a card. They already get to evolve first anyway since we have no BTS and Rare Candy is nixed so I feel it's fair.

If you did that, then Starters would be useless T1... What needs to happen, is damage can't be "dealt" first turn. So you can still use attacks, but you just can't do any damage.

But I feel like that would confuse a bunch of the little ones, and it kind of takes it away from the fact that it is Pokemon lol.

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

f you did that, then Starters would be useless T1... What needs to happen, is damage can't be "dealt" first turn. So you can still use attacks, but you just can't do any damage.

This is what I proposed prior to the HGSS on format and I still stand by this rule change. First turn wins should not be allowed. This overall rule change will prevent any new format power cards like Tyrogue ever gaining popularity/usefullness.

Sebastian Good tournament despite the coin flipping.

 

[Jaeger]

This is what I proposed prior to the HGSS on format and I still stand by this rule change. First turn wins should not be allowed. This overall rule change will prevent any new format power cards like Tyrogue ever gaining popularity/usefullness.

Sebastian Good tournament despite the coin flipping.

Not trying to steal Sebastions thread here. But I feel no first turn trainers would decrese this more since you would HAVE to have a Collector or the Tyrouge already, no communication out for you

 

[Nintendan]

I might consider dropping my Cleffa all together for more draw supporters/energy. If this many games are being decided by luck of opening with a lone baby and Tyrogue, then I'm not going to bother with Cleffa.
Anyway, you got very far with a deck I've never even heard of! Great job man. That's SUCH a shame that so many matches came down to the dice.

 

[nashbeef]

Totally agree with you GrandmaJoner. I think you start a thread about this in the right place so we can bring it to the higher-up's attention.

 

[SlimeyGrimey]

I agree that the first turn dice roll is huge in deciding games. I went 4-0 going first at nats and 1-2 going second. Several of those games the opening roll made a huge difference, including our game in which I would have been able to eek going first.

Nonetheless, good showing at Nats.

 

[GrandmaJoner]

thanks everyone!

I am on board with most suggestions - no trainers, good idea, but I especially like the no damage can be dealt on the first turn of the game. Worlds will be a shame if nothing is done.

 

[ugly psyducky]

Good seeing you at Nats sir... Congrats on your finish.

After watching from the judging perspective, can't agree with you more, that the current format would benefit greatly from a no damage until both players have had a turn. This would take the luck factor down significantly and lead to a lot more interesting and enjoyable games.

Ugly Out

 

[Lord Broly]

Congrat's on the Top Cut Sebastian! Alway's nice to see you make it.

 

[chrataxe]

I think you overestimate how difficult it is to get a pluspower and a junk arm, or two pluspowers in one turn - especially when you can use juniper. If you start tyrogue, you have the next 13 (or more) cards in which to draw any of those two.

I think your overestimate the probability of starting a lone Tyroogue (seriously, who runs more than one) AND a Juniper. What is more probably is that you start with one of your 4 cleffa (or 3) and a collector...so, if you care to run the probability to see the odds of you opponent start a lone cleffa to your Cleffa (because you run a lot and it has free retreat), Collector, and the ability to drop 2 Plus Powers. You can also run the odds on the lone Tyrogue start with Juniper, but I assure, without calculating it, the odds are FAR worse. Lets not forget the fact that you have to have won the toss. The EASIEST part of that math if you winning the toss. Then, calculate the probability they start a lone cleffa, best case scenario, you are looking at about 20% of the time. Then, calculate the probability of having the opening hand you claim is easy...you starting to look well under 10% chance. Yes, it DOES seem way easier to pull off than that, and there are many other factors that go into it. But, that's why I said, both of his losses weren't because of losing the coin toss, it was just horrible luck.

Last format, I ran 1 Skuntank G in my list. I had 3 games in a 4 round battle roads where I start a lone Skuntank....and I went 2-2. The statistical probability of that happening are stupidly low. I didn't lose because of the disadvantage of going first, I lost because of improbable draws...it happens.

 

[sdrawkcab]

But, that's why I said, both of his losses weren't because of losing the coin toss, it was just horrible luck.

Yes there are other factors that went into the loss aside from the flip. However you can easily simplfy it. Had he won the flip he wouldnt have loss right then and there.