Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Darkrai/Hydreigon or Garchomp/Altaria?

N

Nickle909

New Member
Ive been wanting to play one of these decks for next season but I cant decide which one to play.
Could someone list the pros and cons of each deck and there personal opinion on which one is better?
Thanks :cool:
 
Darkai/Hydreigon

Pros
Max potion heal
Energy switch
Can abuse saybleye to get more max potions
Alot of cards are splashable

Cons
I listed most cons in the Gartaria pros

Gartaria

Pros
Gabite for maximum setup
Can get T2 Garchomp with the right list
One shots Hydreigon
Damage stack with Altaria
Most stuff is Level ballable
Doesn't rely on abilities
Hits for high damage with little energies

Cons
Altaria gets ko'd easily
Can tend to discard good cards with its second attack
Has a REALLY tight list


I would go with Darkrai Hydreigon. I usually win with darkrai vs garchomp.
 
Darkrai/Hydreigon easily. Garchomp/Altaria is fast but it runs out of steam very easily against Darkrai/Hydreigon.
 
I don't think the "Darkrai/Hydreigon beats Garchomp/Altaria" argument really holds water here. Even if that is true, those aren't the only two decks in the format. There will be decks that Gartaria excels against and Darkreigon falls to. I think these decks will be equally viable for a while.

I suggest choosing based on your preferred play style. Gartaria is a fast, berserker style deck. The strategy is to basically just fill up the bench and keep pumping out damage. Darkreigon is slower and more calculated. You have to think about what to snipe, when to heal or junk hunt and so on.

This may be a cop out, but perhaps you should just build both decks (using proxies if need be) and then decide which you enjoy more.

RM
 
The main problem Garchomp/Altaria has against Hydreigon/Darkrai conceptually is that you can simply go aggro Darkrai and heal off any damage with Max Potion easily while only sacking a Sableye to get Max Potion back. In contrast, Garchomp/Altaria cannot usually get the OHKO on Darkrai unless they run a 4-4 line (which would be uncommon since I think 3-3 is the standard) and Altaria is open to being Catcher'd and KOed by any deck really. Sure it OHKOs Hydreigon, but it OHKOs you just as easily back if it attacks too.

But yeah it depends, one you can aggro out a lot faster, one offers a lot more survivability and just as big (relatively speaking) damage.
 
Don't forget Giratina EX; it exists for a reason. Look at its Energy costs, now look at Blend Energy GRPD and Prism Energy. Just don't forget and move Prism to Hydreigon and you're fine. Now Dark Trance decks (lets not limit ourselves on potential attackers and just focus on the primary Ability that makes the deck) have both Darkrai EX and Giratina EX as attackers; Giratina EX comes in and OHKOs Sigilyph and Garchomp (when it is safe too).
 
Otaku said:
Don't forget Giratina EX; it exists for a reason. Look at its Energy costs, now look at Blend Energy GRPD and Prism Energy. Just don't forget and move Prism to Hydreigon and you're fine. Now Dark Trance decks (lets not limit ourselves on potential attackers and just focus on the primary Ability that makes the deck) have both Darkrai EX and Giratina EX as attackers; Giratina EX comes in and OHKOs Sigilyph and Garchomp (when it is safe too).
Click to expand...

I like shaymin over giritina. Unlike giritina, shaymin hits for really high late game.
 
kirbyking said:
I like shaymin over giritina. Unlike giritina, shaymin hits for really high late game.
Click to expand...

Giratina EX has a specific use that Shaymin can't match, though. Late game Shaymin EX can do a ton of damage, but Giratina can always OHKO Sigilyph and Garchomp. Shaymin EX will never even scratch Sigilyph.

RM
 
Giratina does bypass Sigilyph, but from what I have seen testing, Sigilyph seems to be an uncommon choice in BW-on decks. Giratina requires many energy to attack, however, while Shaymin runs on 2. Giratina is weak to dragon, making i a huge target for any Rayquazas, Garchomps, or other Giratinas. Shaymin does have much less HP, but is weak to an unplayed type and terminates Terrakions and Terrakion-EXs. It also can do significantly more damage later in the game, and for cheaper. Giratina may be easier to play, but can be taken out quickly if you are not careful. A well placed Shaymin can quickly turn the tide of battle if you have already tied down the loose 110+ -in-one-hit ends, and for cheaper. Just my opinion.
 
I like running 1 giratina and 2 Shaymin so far. I may up the count for giratina. The reason u need two Shaymin EX is because in the terrakion matchup it OHKO'S both reg and EX terrakion if ur opponent has taken two prizes. And it takes terrakion a 3HKO for terrakion to ok Shaymin with an eviolite. I've tried fluffy/chomp but u kinda have to have a really efficient list to do good. (that means next to no techs) but it takes a while for hydra/darkrai to set up and I find it's hard to hit supporters. (its prolly just my luck) Although I find sigilyph irrelevant in any match up because it 2HKO Mewtwo and so can darkrai.
 
Ive been doing some testing and found out that garchomp/altaria does good against other decks but failed against darkrai/hydreigon.
While Darkrai/Hydreigon does good against other decks and Garchomp/Altaria. So i think im gonna use Darkrai/Hydreigon
Thanks for the help Guys.
 
Please tell me, how the hell do you manage to win constantly against Garchomp/Altaria? Garchomp is faster, it kills the Hydreigon Basics and the Hydreign itself everytime. And without the Hydreigon, you cant heal efficient with maxpotion...
 
From Ignatius on the Garchomp vs Hydreigon matchup.

"This is supposed to be the 'savior match up'. This match up is widely concluded as not only advantageous, but STRONGLY advantageous. I disagree completely. The usual response is ERMAHGERD I OHKO HYDREIGONZZ!!11! Let's fast forward through a typical game where this happens. You've KOed 3 Hyreigon in a row an have only 3 prizes left. Now look at your opponent's prizes. They have 3 left as well. And 2 Darkrai. Eviolited. With 3 energy on each. They begin charging a third. Look back at your field. Have you been hitting Super Rods? Well you've already hit the Catchers you needed so if you also hit the Super Rods as well I'd just attribute that to unnatural good luck. Even if you have, you have 0-1 Catchers left and they can keep a solid stream of attacks by retreating and attacking fresh. If they honestly need to they can Max Potion a Darkrai if it means staying in the game. You can't stop them from KOing things, and you still need to be hitting your evolutions/Super Rods to hang in there. Ultimately the match up is only even because it's more likely for Garchomp to play aggressively and score a KO T2. If not for that I'd put the match up at"

I am 8-2 with darkrai hydreigon vs garchomp.
My only losss was to turn 2 chomp when they went first, and when I started no supporters.
 
Shining Zeraphime said:
Please tell me, how the hell do you manage to win constantly against Garchomp/Altaria? Garchomp is faster, it kills the Hydreigon Basics and the Hydreign itself everytime. And without the Hydreigon, you cant heal efficient with maxpotion...
Click to expand...

On paper it comes down to persuasive arguments. :lol:

There is a slight chance your average Dark Trance deck can come out swinging right away; namely with some well timed discards and multiple Dark Patch. Silly as it sounds, let us realize that Altaria/Garchomp can never hit had before the deck's second turn.

Next consider targets; if you're busy KOing members of the Hydreigon line, you're taking single Prizes and ignoring Darkrai EX (or any other attackers in the deck). The Dark Trance player will be laughing all the way to the win if you aren't careful; sure they can't pull the Max Potion trick, but unless you've got a way to boost damage to 200 or to 180 and discard Eviolite, the average Darkrai EX is getting two attacks.

That's enough to take down the first Garchomp and set the second up for a OHKO (or KO it if you aren't Evolving Gible fast enough). Likewise it can set up a pair of Altaria (or an Altaria and a Swablu) for a double KO over the course of two turns. If someone is really gutsy, and runs a clutch Dark Claw, you could really see some craziness happen; 110 to the Defending Pokemon and 30 to a Benched Pokemon is enough to set up Garchomp itself for two KOs in one turn.

Altaria/Garchomp must set-up quickly, cleanly, and never stop rebuilding itself, because by its nature it will almost constantly be losing a Pokemon each turn. This does not make it bad, but at least on paper we now see why Dark Trance decks aren't having a hard time with it. Remember that a nearly KOed Darkrai EX with at least one Darkness Energy attached can retreat for free to the Bench, then have Max Potion dropped on it. Even if that is only a stall tactic, Garchomp may not be able to afford that.

Since Darkrai EX needs :)dark::dark::dark:) to attack, but also is likely to run Dark Patch, you never know when suddenly the Dark Trance deck will be an Energy attachment or two ahead. The Dark Trance decks I see aren't running heavy on the Special Energy cards (or the splashed in attackers that would need them); a significant difference from Klingklang and vital here. This means Mach Cut isn't protecting Garchomp from a retaliatory hit and another Darkrai EX can be building on the Bench.

tl;dr: Focus too much on Hydreigon (and friends), and you'll face a steady stream of Darkrai EX (and possibly other attackers). Don't forget that setting up a Stage 2 and a string of basic Pokemon is easier than setting up a Stage 2 and a bench full of Stage 1 Pokemon.
 
I have to thank you both!

I understand this theory, but it doesnt match with my experience in reality. In theory, both decks can set up normaly, efficiently and quickly. So, Garchomp and Hydreigon can pull three prices each.
You've KOed 3 Hyreigon in a row an have only 3 prizes left. Now look at your opponent's prizes. They have 3 left as well.
Click to expand...
But Hydreigon needs a couple turns to do... everything. It is a deck without the possibility to max out important cards because you have no room. You cant max out the balls or candys, you cant max out maxpotion and catchers, you have only room for a 3-1-3 line, you have to play techs cause Siglyph, Buffalant and Terrakion are too dangerous and you have to play Blend for this. Some times you have to Juniper Hydreigons away, etc. It feels so .. inconsistent.

So, it isnt very uncommon that you have 3 or even 4 or more turns without the possibility to do anything! In this time, Garchomp can take 2 or more prices on Sableyes, basics or whatever. And after this, Garchomp can take out the Hydreigons. And this ends up to a price lead in favour of Garchomp.

I cant understand how this deck is able to win a tournament. I know, it needs skill to win. But if you dont have ANY possibility to do anything, because your hand is full of... random stuff, skill wont work.

What do I wrong with this deck? Isnt it efficient to start with sableye to recover setup trainers like balls? Should Darkrai be my first priority?


Pls excuse my bad english ;)
 
In testing, the only times Darkrai loses to Garchomp is when Darkrai gets too slow of a set up; I usually get that about twice in 10 games. In the rest, once you get a couple Hydreigon up, it's doomsday for Garchomp. They can never OHKO a Darkrai while Darkrai just sets up damage around while one-shotting Altarias. Darkrai also has Sableye to constantly recycle resources, once I get down to 1 or 2 prizes usually I Junk Hunt a couple Catchers and it's over.
 
darkrai. Avoid garchomp/altaria like the plague. everyone i'm playing with will be running eels or some sort of toolbox or darkrai/hydreigon with tech. since it beats garchomp pretty bad. turn 2 or even t3 darkrai sniping altaria will more than setup you up enough to get another hydreigon out if you koed one and than once the max potion lanes your garchomp have no damage output since altaria are down. I haven't found a good solution to eel/darkrai problems yet. Terrakion slows down the deck to much. consider stunfisk but doesn't seem to good. Landorus EX has potential.
 
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