Deck Checks (or, rather lack of)

[Scorpidad]

I was under the impression that it was something that should be done for everyone, something I thought concerned the original poster.

First, I am the original poster, and what concerned me was the lack of ANY deck check. Not the skipping of sign-up deck checks, which I only considered "interesting" at the time, but then I moved to "concerned" when I noted there were not any top-cut checks either.

If this is the norm in New England and deck checks are expected to never occur what is stopping players from running 62 cards, or 5 collectors, or whatever in their deck. I'm sure those extra cards or an otherwise illegal deck will help the unscrupulous player.

Unfortunately, this is very true. I top cutted at my first Cities ever and found out I didnt need a deck check. I found this weird. Also, am I the only one from New England that found it mega crazy we had to pass down each other decklist? I mean, I could have found out what 20 people were playing if I was sly enough. 'Pop runns NY/NJ events, usually Steve Arena is our Head Judge.

Just to clarify, 'Pop runs events in NY/NJ, while Steve Arena is the usual Head Judge for the New England area, or more precisely, the area run by Tom Shae.

 

[Scipio]

In the Netherlands, deck checks are ran pre-tournament for EVERY player, and the players making top cut also get checked.
This topic reminds me of when I went abroad and happened across a BR which I decided on playing. No deckchecks were done, and later it was found that some of the kids played with fake cards, another kid had a 72-card deck, etc etc. Thats why IMO deck checks should be done mandatory.
In case of time constraints: Cut on the lunch break. Everyone can make a few sandwiches at home and gobble them up between rounds.

 

[TAndrewT]

In case of time constraints: Cut on the lunch break. Everyone can make a few sandwiches at home and gobble them up between rounds.

Some venues in the US (and maybe elsewhere) don't allow food to be brought in, and cold weather sometimes makes it tough to just pop outside and gobble. I understand what you mean--this would be great downtime to do deck checks--but can't always work this way.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

Yeah, i actually had a killer issue with my list this year,a fter i requested a dekc check and was told to just turn in my list. I was confident that i had a solid list so i accepted and then lost 4 of my most important cards in top cut. Of course it's my fault for not looking over it again, but i may have filled in the blank too just from using the same list for so long. The second pair of eyes really does help, espically when players are helping newer players complete their lists as well as their own and i would hope that whatever prevented or influenced the lack of deckchecks this year to be temporary.

 

[PokeDad]

Mandatory deck checks for all at each BR and City I HJ. This year at Nor Cal Regional, mandatory deck checks will serve as registration, there will be random deck checks during swiss, and there will be another deck check for top cut players.

Although deck checks were not performed at Nats last year, I am such a believer in them that I offered voluntary deck checks during registration at the event.

I have seen players who did not have to undergo a deck check win through swiss only to not be able to play during top cut when they abysmally fail deck check then. When every swiss win should have been a loss, I feel that a lack of deck checks can lead directly to a faulty result for every player who loses to a fail top cut deck - as many as 8 or 9 wrong tournament result experiences per top cut fail deck in a large tournament. I have seen players have to remove a vitally important card from their deck at top cut because they forgot to include it on their 59 card list. If deck checks, while not 100% perfect, allow for a greater degree fairness and increase confidence in the integrity of the process, catching cheaters and correcting errors, then I am all for them.

Steve Arena and Chrisbo are two great deck checkers who I learned a ton from last year, and I have passed on lessons learned. I think Keith bounced my son's deck at Worlds a while back, and I have used his appropriately strict sleeve standards since.

Anyway, you can put me down as completely supportive of deck checks, they are part of tournaments I HJ, and I am thrilled to be able to offer them on a voluntary basis at events I attend where they may not be required.

 

[Martian]

If this is the norm in New England and deck checks are expected to never occur what is stopping players from running 62 cards, or 5 collectors, or whatever in their deck. I'm sure those extra cards or an otherwise illegal deck will help the unscrupulous player.

The truely unscrupled players will 'fix' those problems when they are 'ripping' their decks prior to turning them in for the top cut check.

Then they are stuck with their written list. The only way to catch those 'cheats' are by random checks. If it is truely random then in larger events the chances of randomly pulling that one cheater is pretty small.

If you think you have a cheating problem a better solution would be to have all Top Cut players report to a general location and have a judge watch them rip the decks prior to turn in.

 

[Victory Bell]

Unfortunately, this is very true. I top cutted at my first Cities ever and found out I didnt need a deck check. I found this weird. Also, am I the only one from New England that found it mega crazy we had to pass down each other decklist? I mean, I could have found out what 20 people were playing if I was sly enough. 'Pop runns NY/NJ events, usually Steve Arena is our Head Judge.

No, your not. I don't love the idea of handing other people my list but they do it upside-down and peeking is a pretty serious no-no. New England runs good events which are usually done fast. Some times to fast.

FYI, I was in Mass. States cut and never had my deck checked. Neither did anyone else. However our judges do list checks. But whats to say I can't stick in a 5th Spiritomb in my deck for consistency anyways? I guess our judges just think our players will be honest ALL THE TIME! Our community is honest and out going on the surface but am i kidding myself to think that an under performing player would not be tempted by better odds of having a one card advantage?

 

[Zander Yurami]

I remember handing in a list of my deck before cities, but no one ever looked at my deck itself.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Pop also runs great events for the record.

NE can mean:
North East (which NJ/NY are often considered part of)
New England (Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine)
Nebraska (NE is their postal abbreviation)
^I feel like the confusion between the first two has actually tripped people up ITT.

I meant Northeast, my bad. I wasn't taking a stab at Pokepop, I just thought that it was awfully close to him for such a random change in etiquette.

 

[ShadowCard]

If this is the norm in New England and deck checks are expected to never occur what is stopping players from running 62 cards, or 5 collectors, or whatever in their deck. I'm sure those extra cards or an otherwise illegal deck will help the unscrupulous player.

What's to stop them from doing that with pre-event deck checks?

Like Martin said, if you are looking to deter cheating, a pre-event deck check is not the correct tool. What you want is the random deck check done during the event.

Pre-event deck checks are for catching player mistakes, such as the use of a fake card, a miscount of the deck or list, or an error on the list. However, overall, those are player responsibilities. States is a T2 event, which means that the expectation on the players to step up to those responsibilities is higher.