Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

does discarding a supporter mean you end your turn?

Articjedi

Active Member
Lately, an issue came out at league about the supporter rule and how you have to discard it at the end of the turn. Since this rule was meant only to show that you have played a supporter this turn, most players don't like the inconveinence and discard it immeditately. However, there is one player here that insists that if you discard the supporter then your turn automatically ends. In fact, every time this happens, he starts a huge arguement (this is when he plays someone much younger than him), over how his opponent just ended his turn. I don't think that something as discarding a supporter that you knew your opponent played should have any lasting effect on the game, especially one so gamebreaking as ending your opponent's turn.​

Thoughts?​
 
I typically do one of 2 things myself, I either a) pu tthe supporter straight to my discard pile without even thinking about it, or b) leave it in play and realize after either my opponent mentions it, or I go to play one on a different turn.
 
He brings this up ONLY when playing a younger player that he can intimidate? =/ This isn't a rules question, but a sportsmanship one, IMHO.

I'd take this as a 'teachable moment' for the entire league. Remind them ALL that the supporter played needs to stay on the table until the turn ends. Make it a responsibility of BOTH players, much like how one's opponent is supposed to remind if prizes aren't set at the beginning of the game...after all, the players will need to play in the 'correct' manner at larger tourneys.

I'd also suggest to the argumentive player that such tactics...arguing the same point over and over when you as GL have already overruled it...are not going to be looked at very positively by judges at larger events, especially when there's the history of only arguing this when playing against younger/more inexperienced players =/

There is a big difference between "When your turn ends, discard this card" and "discarding this card ends your turn".

'mom
 
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SDPokemom said:
There is a big difference between "When your turn ends, discard this card" and "discarding this card ends your turn".

Wise words 'mom.


Nevertheless, if a player repeatedly places supporters in their discard pile before their turn ends, that's a minor procedural error. At higher REL events, such a practice might incur penalties.
 
Articjedi said:
Since this rule was meant only to show that you have played a supporter this turn, most players don't like the inconveinence and discard it immeditately.​

Thoughts?​

Of course, the 'you ended your turn guy' is wrong on every level.

But also, the 'inconvenience majority' needs to change how they play.

At home where your players are known, you could let them play to their personal or majority convenience. But, they take that habit to premeire play among players & judges who don't know them...

A judge has to go by the game state & play rules to make a ruling. That convenience could be a game breaker if someone double plays a supporter and both are in the discard and the game state can't be unwound.
 
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Actually, I'm not the GL at my league, pokeplayer is. If I'm doing anything not playing, it's judging at tourneys like the CC's. It's gotten really annoying to hear him rant, "yeah I hate this rule, but that's the way you're supposed to play it, almost every time he sits down to play."

Playing two supporters has come up though, and there have been penalites handed out because they didn't keep the supporter in play, but I think that discarding it is a really minor procedural error and shouldn't be ruled to harshly.
 
To Arctijedi: I agree it is a procedural error and should be handled as such. Even those could escalate, right? Once the two have been played straight to the discard and there is no unwind... ouch.

To all discussing, here is what I see as the problem with the issued raised, specifically, and focusing on results of game actions (knock out, etc.) to the exclusion of game play rules in general.

Looking at it from the perspective of the opponent, the game rule is partly for them, a courtesy, a placeholder, even communication. A LOT of stuff can happen in a turn as combos begin to fire. Using the game state markers designed into the game is also for the opponent, not just the player or the judge.

Habitually omitting to play with game state markers (counters, card orientation, calling your attack) is not a good thing and makes the game hard to follow, ESPECIALLY for newbies. We want more players in the game, not people who are like 'Pokemon, whatever' because we made their heads spin. This might not be the case in your league but playing the support straight to the discard is usually accompanied by omitting all other game marker, not calling any attacks or powers. In short, watch carefully and figure out what I'm doing.

One person plays that way because they're all casual and focused on their moves and strategies rather than the game, and another sees it as an opportunity for advantage. There are elements of both reasons for the procedural errors that are problematic. With prizes (big or small) on the line, with just simply winning or a players sense of fairness on the line, the judge has to teach people how to play right.
 
SD PokéMom said:
I'd take this as a 'teachable moment' for the entire league. Remind them ALL that the supporter played needs to stay on the table until the turn ends. Make it a responsibility of BOTH players, much like how one's opponent is supposed to remind if prizes aren't set at the beginning of the game...after all, the players will need to play in the 'correct' manner at larger tourneys.

This is exactly right. A caution is all that is warranted (unless two supporters were played).

Fortunately for me, all of my veteran league players are beyond the stage where they try to 'enforce the rules' against their opponent. Newer players who are overmatched sometimes look for 'loopholes' to help them stay afloat in matches they have already lost.

For instance, one of my newly-registered league kids was behind 5-0 on prizes when his opponent said "KO, game." The kid argued "KO is not an attack, so he doesn't get to attack this turn!" There were two attacks possible, and only one of them would KO the defending Pokémon, so this could be considered a 'procedural error' (if you really stretch it!).

I gently explained that, at our league, we sometimes use this shorthand, and that if he was confused about which attack the opponent meant to use, he should just ask... :rolleyes:

I'd handle this exactly the same way in a tournament setting (and give a caution to the attacking player to be clear as to his attack).
 
pokemom is right and it i a sportmanship call. I fell if a player uses a supporter and then discards it forgeting he is suppose to leave it up there it is just a simple mistake and the opponent should just let it go or remind him. Its not right to force a turn to end over a simple thing like that
 
I lost a CC because I discarded by mistake a supporter.
We ruled it here that if you discard it your turn is over, so I had to take it that way but it was hard.
My opponent didn't let me finish my turn, so I couldn't attack and lost the game due to that.
I will take more care playing supporters and I don't like this "sportive" sollution you are talking about.
Meaby at clubtourny's yes you can tell you opponent not to discard a supporter but at official tourny's no way.
 
Generally, I prefer that a verbal indicator be used to end a turn. Personally, I wouldn't hold a person to ending their turn on discard.
 
Rainbowgym said:
I lost a CC because I discarded by mistake a supporter.
We ruled it here that if you discard it your turn is over, so I had to take it that way but it was hard.
My opponent didn't let me finish my turn, so I couldn't attack and lost the game due to that.
I will take more care playing supporters and I don't like this "sportive" sollution you are talking about.
Meaby at clubtourny's yes you can tell you opponent not to discard a supporter but at official tourny's no way.

But it's too harsh a penalty, Rain'.
It is totally rewindable and does not call for a harsh penalty like that.
Even in a prize swap penalty, you still get to play out your turn!
 
I'm a bit confused here, maybe I'm just looking at this wrong. Wouldn't the fact that they immediately discarded the trainer make it a procedural error? The supporter rule states "When you play this card, put it next to your Active Pokemon. When your turn ends, discard this card." If you want to get technical on the same level that some of these people have, you couldn't discard it anyway, and force the end of your turn. Wouldn't it have to be placed next to your Active before you could really do anything else with it? Going directly from the hand to the discard is an error in itself, isn't it? It has to go from the position next to your Active to the discard, if you want to follow it completely.
 
Articjedi

Thanks for the post...I will talk to the "Player" involved and put this issue to bed once and for all.......

Pokeplayer...
 
Zero's got a valid point:

1. State the name of the Trainer as you play it.
2. Do everything it says in the order it says so.

Seems to me you can't discard it immediately, but you try to explain that to the 10- category, or even worse, to the 15+ without them whining about you being partial to the other player.

Maybe we need to take like an hour before Nationals to explain how you should play the game, just to make sure everybody understands the ramifications of their actions. IMHO it is reversable, as long as no second Supporter is played that turn (which shouldn't be able to happen)
 
Maverick Hunter Zero said:
Wouldn't it have to be placed next to your Active before you could really do anything else with it? Going directly from the hand to the discard is an error in itself, isn't it? It has to go from the position next to your Active to the discard, if you want to follow it completely.

...then there are the players who place their discard pile next to their active pokemon (between the Active and their draw pile) instead of below the draw pile... (as was the case in my Round 1 of T8 at last Sunday's State Champs event). So when they place the Supporter next to their Active, it also happens to be going to the discard simultaneously :rolleyes: - my opponent kept encouraging me to do likewise, but I refused :p
 
Tahna said:
Maybe we need to take like an hour before Nationals to explain how you should play the game

Well, one feels like that. LOL! I probably won't take an hour, but I will remind players of the importance of playing the game right -- it isn't just for correctness' sake:


Habitually omitting to play with game state markers (counters, card orientation, calling your attack) is not a good thing and makes the game hard to follow, ESPECIALLY for newbies. We want more players in the game, not people who are like 'Pokemon, whatever' because we made their heads spin.

And I will remind them that a misplay, IF IT CAN NOT BE UNWOUND, accompanied by ommission of a game rule (like failure to properly play supporter, put a burn counter, etc.) is going to compound the penalty.

Short cuts make long delays.
--Gaffer Gamgee quoted by Samwise in FOTR​
 
I do feel that we need to be teaching players at league the basics of the game as it is played at a tournament level, that does not mean we jump on their mistakes but we need to be teaching them the essentials :(

Playing a supporter and trashing it straight away does look like you have just ended your turn; a mistake to be handled at league level and then where necessary corrected... if they keep doing it then sure end their turn.
 
Hello all..

As per my previous post, I have talked to the "Player" involved and explained this type of action is not acceptable.
The player accepted this and this issue should be dead.......
 
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