Empoleon Dusknoir

[bullados]

I think I finally got the hang of how this thing is supposed to work, and I'm kinda excited about its potential. But I've got absolutely zero clue how to build it correctly. So, I'm just gonna throw out my first bet, and let you guys rip it to shreds. Ready to hate on me? Go right ahead!

Pokemon (18):
4 Piplup DEX
2 Prinplup LT
4 Empoleon DEX
3 Duskull BC
1 Dusclops BC
2 Dusknoir BC
1 Exeggcute
1 Mr. Mime

Trainers (35):
4 Level Ball
3 Ultra Ball
4 Juniper
4 N
3 Skyla
3 Max Potion
4 Rare Candy
3 Float Stone
2 Tool Scrapper
1 Dowsing Machine
1 Tropical Beach
1 Super Rod
2 Silver Bangle

Energy (7):
7 Water

The strategy here is to mass damage as much as possible. Spread it wide, spread it thin. Target things with Energy, or things that evolve into very, very dangerous things. Against Evolution decks, target the Basics and get cheap KOs whenever possible. Against EXs, spread the damage until you've got 540+ in play. Then, Dusknoir for the game. Unless, of course, your opponent gets something into play that can one-shot your Empoleons.

I decided on a more defensive build. Seeing as Empoleon only takes a single energy to attack, I think that the Max Potions will allow me to save my Penguins while still allowing me to attack every turn. While I like the sudden turn an Escape Rope can make for this deck, I prefer the relative stability and reusability of Float Stone.

All that I ask is that you don't tell me to add more Beach. I've only got the one. And it'll probably be used more defensively than offensively in this deck. i.e. getting rid of Banks.

I'd like to find a way for some more Active switching abilities, and another 2 or 3 Basics wouldn't hurt the deck either. But really, this is all about just getting back into the swing of deckbuilding with something that actually sounds interesting.

 

[pokemon54]

I have seen Sawk with the righteous attack being played a little in some Empoleon decks. I like attackers that can Abuse Blend Energy in this deck. I have seen Terrakion played. I also saw a guy at my league playing a weird version with Virizion and all types of meta techs. I like Empoleoon. I think it is flexible. Like you I don't know how to build a good list. I just know what goes into it and what could work. I see you added in Egg which is great. Made the deck just so much more hilarious. Mr. Mime is also a great addition you added. I personally think you have a great Pokémon start to it. I say just work towards the consistency and you should be fine. Build it to your play style and how it will work for your area. I am not sure if I was much help. I hope I was haha. Also this deck has that pain of your opponent has to take 6 prizes if you keep EX's out.
Oh yeah. I see Leafeon a lot in several Empoleons in my area. The one that has the Energy Crush Attack.

 

[corypoke2]

If you only have 1 beach you really need to play Jirachi EX to give you many more outs to the single beach early. I think 2-1-2 Dusknoir is the way to go. You need to play around with a secondary attacker also...ideas 1) 2 of Sawk, landy ex, Terrakion, Stunfisk 2) 2-2 Leafeon and maybe a flareon 3) 3-2 Accelgor (my fave)

-Cory

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Given that you wish to have a "defensive" build, I suggest the following (from my experience in running this deck) for your consideration:

• IMO, a defensive build also implies you want your opponent to KO 6 Empoleons, if he/she can. So, these mighty penguins are like Spartans - "no retreat and no surrender." Lol.
• This deck should NOT be run with Tropical Beach nor 4 Professor Juniper. IMHO, this is 1 deck in which 4 PJs "hurt" more than help.
• With Diving Draw, you can actually reduce your card-draw Supporter count to just 8-9 and the deck still runs smoothly and efficiently. I use 4 N, 2 PJ and 2 Colress.
• You will need to run 2 Super Rods since most of the basic Poké are quite "fragile" (i.e., 60- HP) and easily KOd. You'll also need to recycle the limited energy too.
• Float Stones are not critical. These can be too easily Scrapper'ed.

So, relative to actual card changes, I propose the following:
-1 Level Ball
-1 Tropical Beach
-2 Professor Juniper
-3 Float Stone

+2 Colress (to take advantage of full benches, in many cases)
+2 Switch / Escape Rope
+1 Super Rod
+1 W

+1 Keldeo EX (MAYBE - high risk (of being easily KOd) in VirGen match-ups though. Also, keep 2 Float Stones should you decide to incorporate this Poké.)
-- or --
+1 Sawk (PB) (Maybe - dependent on your area's meta game; but this Poké does have a Colorless energy attack; so, it easily fits your energy schema.)
-- or --
+1 Poké with Colorless energy attack (e.g., Emolga) that can facilitate setup (i.e., Call for Family) or provide some draw assistance early game (Virizion).

 

[bullados]

I have seen Sawk with the righteous attack being played a little in some Empoleon decks. I like attackers that can Abuse Blend Energy in this deck. I have seen Terrakion played. I also saw a guy at my league playing a weird version with Virizion and all types of meta techs. I like Empoleoon. I think it is flexible. Like you I don't know how to build a good list. I just know what goes into it and what could work. I see you added in Egg which is great. Made the deck just so much more hilarious. Mr. Mime is also a great addition you added. I personally think you have a great Pokémon start to it. I say just work towards the consistency and you should be fine. Build it to your play style and how it will work for your area. I am not sure if I was much help. I hope I was haha. Also this deck has that pain of your opponent has to take 6 prizes if you keep EX's out.
Oh yeah. I see Leafeon a lot in several Empoleons in my area. The one that has the Energy Crush Attack.

Sweet merciful monkey jesus, I can't believe I forgot about Leafeon!!! OK, that completely changes around what I want to do with this thing. Yes, I really, really do want that Leafeon in this deck. I think that 2-2 should be enough for that. Maybe a single Flareon for the late game, though he's kinda fragile.

I'm trying to stay away from Special Energy for this. I'm seeing Hammers make a comeback recently, and I do NOT want to be caught in that particular storm.

If you only have 1 beach you really need to play Jirachi EX to give you many more outs to the single beach early. I think 2-1-2 Dusknoir is the way to go. You need to play around with a secondary attacker also...ideas 1) 2 of Sawk, landy ex, Terrakion, Stunfisk 2) 2-2 Leafeon and maybe a flareon 3) 3-2 Accelgor (my fave)

-Cory

The Beach is sort of a throw-in card. I'm already playing Skyla instead of Random Receiver because Rare Candy is a thing that exists. I just figure that it's better for me to Skyla into a Beach turn 1 than it is to Juniper, but even better than that is to NOT have a 90 HP EX sitting around waiting to get murdered. Especially since my goal is to maintain that 6 KOs style that I loved so much playing Weavile. And, again, I'm not in favor of throwing in Special Energy. Not when Hammers is making a comeback.

I also like the 3-1-2 Dusk because it prevents against Catcher and Genesect kills. Plus, something else to dump with Diving Draw later in the game.

Given that you wish to have a "defensive" build, I suggest the following (from my experience in running this deck) for your consideration... *snip*

Wow, OK lots of stuff in here. First off, I'm trying to build this as a hybrid. I want this to hit fast and hard, but also have enough left for the really, really late game. Plus, I'm kinda scared of the mirror. So, 3 Max Potions means that my opponent basically has to take 7 or even 8 prizes in order to take the game. It's offense in the form of defense.

Like I said above, the lone Beach is a product of the Skylas, not the other way around. Plus, it helps grinch Banks, at least for a turn.

My biggest concern with this deck is the setup. I NEED to have at least one Empoleon in play by the end of Turn 2. That's my biggest defense right there. 60 damage is so easy to come by, what with Banks and low costing attacks and Darkrai still being a thing. It's so tough to KO 140HP 6+ times over, while it's relatively easier to KO 180HP 3 times over.

With that being said, I cannot have enough speed and consistency cards in the deck. Level Ball searches out all my Basics and Stage 1s, and especially that lone Exeggcute. Eggs is really my entire setup, and I need to have that thing discarded really, really quickly. I would run 4 Ultra Balls as well, but again, Candy is a thing that exists.

I do rather like Colress in this deck, but not in place of the Junipers. June's just too good at getting stuff out quickly. And also not in place of the Skylas either. I'm not sure where to put that card. I can't put more than 2 in here, and I'm not even sure I want that much. It's such a bad card in the first 2 turns of the game.

It's not that difficult to talk me out of the Stones, really. I'm not sure how much Pokemon switching is happening in this format, though Catcher is still reasonably popular up here. Switch/Rope might be better uses of those spots. It'll all come down to what I'm seeing at a particular event.

I'm not gonna touch the setup attackers. As I'm finding out with Sableye, they're a double-edged sword. If I were to run any of them, it would probably be Kangaskhan, just cuz of the HP. But that thing's difficult to get Benched. Emolga's not an option b/c Plasma is getting more popular up here again.

Here's a revised list...

Pokemon (21):
4-2-4 Empoleon
2-2 Leafeon
2-1-2 Dusknoir
1 Exeggcute
1 Mr. Mime

Trainers (32):
4 Juniper
4 N
3 Skyla
4 Level Ball
3 Ultra Ball
4 Rare Candy
2 Max Potion
1 Silver Bangle
2 Switch or Escape Rope
2 Tool Scrapper
1 Dowsing Machine
1 Super Rod
1 Beach

Energy (7):
7 Water

I ended up having to drop the Dusknoir to 2-1-2. There's just so many great Trainers that can be played right now. And I feel sick about dropping to 2 Max Potions and one Bangle, but Setup rules the day with this deck. I'm obsessed with the Turn 2 Empoleon. Seriously, that's like the whole point of this deck. Turn 2 the Empoleon, and set up behind it. I still like the lone Beach as both a Turn 1 Get Out of Jail Free card, and as a Bank Breaker later in the game.

 

[SMP88]

You don't need 4 Level Ball or Juniper. You'll be burning through your deck fast enough where you don't need the search and Juniper becomes a liability late game. Colress is much better than Juniper after T2. Even before that, I've played Colress T1 for 0-2 to get rid of a bad hand, then Beached to get cards back. You also need a 2nd Bangle. Your first one is going to get Scrappered, no question about it.

 

[pokemon54]

Well I am glad I helped a little.

 

[RichD]

I second the recommendation to go with 2 Super Rods. The Turn 2 Empoleon is essential but so is the Turn 8 Empoleon when you are scrambling to get resources back from the discard after two or three penguins have been KOd.

Drop a Juniper and add a Colress. Take advantage of your hopefully always full bench.

I would go with escape rope over switch for one reason: Latias EX. I've seen it as a tech in Darkrai/Hydreigon and it shuts this deck down hard. Having a way to shift it or other potential walls out of position is important.

I play 3 Silver Bangle and still never seem to keep them around long enough with all the Tool Scrappers being played.

Here is a quick list of cards that can OHKO Empoleon:

Genesect with G Booster
Black Kyurem EX with Black Ballista
Darkrai EX with Dark Claw and either LaserBank or Bench damage set up
Thunderus EX with 4 Deoxys on the bench
Plasma Kyurem with 2 Deoxys on the Bench
Lugia EX with 2 Deoxys on the Bench
Keldeo EX with 5 water energies
Hydreigon with Dragonblast

and the list tends to go on and on. I adored the Max Potion for immortal Empoleons in earlier formats but I've found that Empoleons just don't last long enough for me to use Max Potions. I would suggest using those slots for either techs against the meta you play in or more consistency cards.