StormFront
New Member
The big problem I have with PRs is that there is no prizes for doing well in tourneys. I won't stop going altogether, but I'll probably only attend 1-2 a year from now on.
Entry fee for Pre-releases increased?
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psychup2034
New Member
Players, like PTOs, are not charitable benefactors. We are all cost-conscious decision makers. $30 may just be the tipping point for a lot of players. Let's look at the cost (excluding transportation), strictly from a player perspective:
- $25 for 8 packs, comes out to $100 per box.
- $30 for 8 packs, comes out to $120 per box.
One way that prerelease numbers could go up is by making playable promos. I almost went to the Dragons Exalted prerelease just for that Altaria, but after doing some testing the week before, I realized that Garchomp/Altaria was not really competitive and decided not to go. Now if that promo card was a Hydreigon, I would've definitely hauled my behind out of bed to go get one.
Pokemon cards are a non-essential, luxury good (defined in economic terms). People are more likely to cost-cut to spend on essential goods than to cut costs on luxury goods.
I have bought a ~$100 bottle of liquor as a gift for a TOs for his birthday, but I'm not going to pay that extra $5 for a prerelease. These two expenditures come out of a different mental account. (It's similar to why people will pay $40 for a Pokemon card, but not willing to save that $40 and feed a starving child in Africa for a month.)
Medaforcer
New Member
I don't know about other states, but this seems like kind of a problem here in SoCal where you could just drive to Frank and Sons which could be closer or about the same amount of driving to a pre, and get packs for around 2.50 (and that's individually). It jsut makes it really difficult to justify that 30 dollars here. That's almost full retail price now.
How do the people there get a better deal on packs than PTOs?
How do the people there get a better deal on packs than PTOs?
ShadowCard
Active Member
Are PTOs ready to close the business? Prereleases are supposed to be the introductory, non-competitive level event for tournaments, ideal for new and young players while satisfying the veteran player with the advantages of a jump-start on trading. As far as tournaments go, that purpose means they are base of the pyramid. If you shut that down, the rest of your attendance goes down with it. Better to fix prereleases than to scrap the event series.
We keep hearing that people go to prereleases for the experience. Is that true? PTOs cut these events short, down to 3 rounds instead of 4 or 5 when attendance would call for it, in order to jump into the afterdraft. Sure, the afterdraft may be part of the experience, but if players are fine with having their experience cut short then it sounds more like they are really in it for buying cards and getting through the event as quickly as possible, so experiencing as little of the event as they have to. Maybe 3 rounds is all the experience people like? Don't want to do Pokemon all day, enough is enough at a certain point so maybe 3 rounds is the full experience before it loses interest? Personally, I don't understand how making a deck for only 3 rounds when I should have played 5 was getting my full $25--now $30--worth.
Maybe the increased price will come with a better quality deck box or more promotional items in the future? Isn't that what happened when the price first increased? Juniors, seniors, and masters like posters...
---------- Post added 10/06/2012 at 05:33 PM ----------
Because the costs have already gone up. I suppose they could go up more (anything could, right?), but this increase is the PTOs are now finally following suit.
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losjackal
Technical Administrator
Your argument still stands, but I need to fix the math since a box contains 36 packs:
If you're looking to buy 36 packs, absolutely buy a box. Many (non-elite) players who attend pre-releases don't buy that many all at once each set. So they value getting the cards 1-2 weeks before the street date, and are willing to pay a bit of a premium to get their 8 packs and make a day of building a deck and playing in a mini-tournament. So let's just agree that "worth it" is a subjective term based on what your interest is.
I'm sorry to hear that. I think the TO would appreciate your attendance at their event more than an extravagant bottle of liquor. You're clearly a thoughtful person, and supporting their business I believe is a better initial thought.
---------- Post added 10/06/2012 at 04:42 PM ----------
We've been going to prereleases for 2.5 years here in the Midwest, and the events here have always been just 3 rounds. I'd agree with your conclusion, that yes with a deck I made on the fly, I don't want to play rounds 4 or 5 to prove who is the "best" with no prizes on the line. 3 rounds is fine, but maybe that's my skewed expectation because that is all I've ever known.
As a counterpoint, I know a Dad and son that absolutely love building these decks, either in the main event or in the draft afterwards. So yes, the experience of getting packs early, building a deck, and competing is worth it for some people.
If you're looking to buy 36 packs, absolutely buy a box. Many (non-elite) players who attend pre-releases don't buy that many all at once each set. So they value getting the cards 1-2 weeks before the street date, and are willing to pay a bit of a premium to get their 8 packs and make a day of building a deck and playing in a mini-tournament. So let's just agree that "worth it" is a subjective term based on what your interest is.
I'm sorry to hear that. I think the TO would appreciate your attendance at their event more than an extravagant bottle of liquor. You're clearly a thoughtful person, and supporting their business I believe is a better initial thought.
---------- Post added 10/06/2012 at 04:42 PM ----------
We've been going to prereleases for 2.5 years here in the Midwest, and the events here have always been just 3 rounds. I'd agree with your conclusion, that yes with a deck I made on the fly, I don't want to play rounds 4 or 5 to prove who is the "best" with no prizes on the line. 3 rounds is fine, but maybe that's my skewed expectation because that is all I've ever known.
As a counterpoint, I know a Dad and son that absolutely love building these decks, either in the main event or in the draft afterwards. So yes, the experience of getting packs early, building a deck, and competing is worth it for some people.
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Kayle
Active Member
I really don't like the main event of a prerelease. A luck-based tournament all about what you pull? I get horrid pulls. Making a deck of cards I have no control over isn't fun. At least with the draft, I can strategize. But it's not worth the $30 to get cards a little early (when I don't have many trading partners anyway), to sit through a $20 draft that is only a little more fun, when I could be getting 18 packs - half again as much as a prerelease - for that much money by splitting a box with a friend.
I guess the crux of the argument is that if you're concerned about money you should've been buying boxes in the first place. ^ ^"
Mystery Thing
Administrator
No, that's what Battle Roads are for. Not that that worked out so well... But I routinely get about 10-12 players for PRs that I never see again until the next PR. They don't come to "real" tournaments and I rarely, if ever, see them at league.
Anyways, phrase it as "closing the business" if you want, but PTOs are not businesses. If an event costs more to run than it brings in, we pay for it out of our own pocket. At that point, the logical thing to do would be to stop doing them, yes.
Can't comment on that, seeing as how we never cut down rounds and never do drafts afterwards here. Not enough people would want to. (Which is lame, seeing as how draft IS 28304209385409238% better than sealed IMO)
Fixed
Every PTO should run their events business as, well, a business.
That's what the IRS considers it. Or whatever you have in Canada.
Victory Bell
Member
I wish we'd see some good news for once. 30$ looks a lot different than 25$ in my opinion. There's nothing anyone can do to make it better either, and no amount of complaining can fix this. Still, just buy a box. it was more economical to begin with.
Sad though.
Sad though.
The badge boxes for league was really good news. Free too. We just seem to dwell more on what we perceive as negative.
Swordfish1989
New Member
The Pre-Releases were never meant to be the most economical way to obtain cards and if anyone ever saw it as that then they need help with basic math. The main reason me and my friends go to the Pre-Releases is to obtain the cards early (which have HUGE tradeability) and see all the people that I never see at my league. It's an awesome way to get together with a bunch of people and play and trade and see everyone get excited as they open a bunch of new packs. It's about the experience as a whole.
I think someone already mentioned this, but in the grand scheme of things this is such a small cost. $5 extra every 3 months? That's not exactly breaking the bank. If we were talking an additional $5 a week or even a month I could see the problem, but $20/year isn't going to make me any richer or poorer. Not enough for me to give up on the experience.
I think someone already mentioned this, but in the grand scheme of things this is such a small cost. $5 extra every 3 months? That's not exactly breaking the bank. If we were talking an additional $5 a week or even a month I could see the problem, but $20/year isn't going to make me any richer or poorer. Not enough for me to give up on the experience.
Charranitar
Member
It sounds like pre releases could be well suited to increase prize support in terms of promo cards. First off, by making the participation promos a playable card. Second, they could take a page from fnm, and have some other promo (Keldeo EX, Landorus EX.....) that go to the top 2, and then 2 players at random for an age division.
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
I never want to see competitive Prereleases ever again. You really want to put a $20 card on the line at a Prerelease? Enjoy doing open-list-pass Prereleases again. That's where everybody opens their packs, records every card in them, and then passes everything to the person to their right, or across the table, to prevent cheating. You have NO IDEA the kinds of headaches that puts on the event. Because it's either that or "LOLOLOLOL 5 EX 6-6-6 STAGE 2 15 TRAINER STUPID BROKEN DECK" from cheating.
No to first place prizes. Yes to increases across the board. If they gave out a second playable promo to everybody, that'd be cool. But no competitive prizes. Not in an event as random as Prereleases.
No to first place prizes. Yes to increases across the board. If they gave out a second playable promo to everybody, that'd be cool. But no competitive prizes. Not in an event as random as Prereleases.
I can honestly say now that I won't be attending prereleases anymore.
Don't get me wrong; I really enjoy prereleases. HOWEVER, I am a very poor young adult. I have little money to throw around. I loved attending prereleases because it was a great value. I could get packs at a somewhat lower price than I would at retail, and I had a ton of fun doing it. Sleeves and a promo were also great. However, when they removed sleeves I was already a little put off, but still enjoyed attending due to the good prices for the amount of packs I received, and I still had a lot of fun.
But now, we are essentially paying retail prices for the booster packs received at prerelease, with only the added bonus of a promo that is USUALLY useless, and a very shoddy and honestly useless deckbox. Yes, they are still very fun, but I simply can not afford prereleases anymore.
So obviously, the price increase is upsetting :\
EDIT: It's also worth noting that I do not buy booster packs at all, other than in tins when they have very good promos (like right now). I buy singles or trade almost always now. Prereleases are the only packs I ever really buy from any set. Now I won't be buying any packs at all for the most part.
Don't get me wrong; I really enjoy prereleases. HOWEVER, I am a very poor young adult. I have little money to throw around. I loved attending prereleases because it was a great value. I could get packs at a somewhat lower price than I would at retail, and I had a ton of fun doing it. Sleeves and a promo were also great. However, when they removed sleeves I was already a little put off, but still enjoyed attending due to the good prices for the amount of packs I received, and I still had a lot of fun.
But now, we are essentially paying retail prices for the booster packs received at prerelease, with only the added bonus of a promo that is USUALLY useless, and a very shoddy and honestly useless deckbox. Yes, they are still very fun, but I simply can not afford prereleases anymore.
So obviously, the price increase is upsetting :\
EDIT: It's also worth noting that I do not buy booster packs at all, other than in tins when they have very good promos (like right now). I buy singles or trade almost always now. Prereleases are the only packs I ever really buy from any set. Now I won't be buying any packs at all for the most part.
ShadowCard
Active Member
There is no such thing as a "playable promo" because it requires someone to read the future. The Altaria was supposed to be a playable card and theorymon at the time made it look like TPCi chose correctly. A promo's playability is based on hindsight.
No, BRs are competitive. PRs are designed to be non-competitive.
There was no deck swapping in Virginia, only deck lists. Deck swapping is strictly for paranoid PTOs and now used as an extreme to deter the idea that a tournament should reward the winner.
GodBlessAmerica
New Member
I don't see the problem with giving prize support to pre-releases. MTG does it and there are rarely ever any problems
Swordfish1989
New Member
Yes, but there's a lot of steps that you have to take to make a Pre-Release competitive without the cheating. First, you have to have everyone fill a list of every card they pull from the packs. Then you have to collect everything and randomly distribute it back to the players. And then you have to make sure that no one is switching cards from their decks with cards they got from past pre-releases. That's a HUGE problem with Pokemon - there's multiple pre-release weekends and in the case of BW, sometimes the set gets released before the PR. All of that complicates the idea of having pre-releases be competitive. Plus, the luck factor in Pokemon is off the charts compared to other TCGs so instead of rewarding skill all you're rewarding is luck. This is all a recipe for disaster.
While I agree with you thoughts on "inflation," I find it hard to justify any "price increase" in Pokemon while MtG and WoW are charging the same for 15 card packs.
$105 shipped? Seriously? Someone else said they preordered two for $87 each.
SC: you are a voice of reason in a sea of chaos. I've never been a fan of the 3 round PR system. I think its great if you are doing 8 man draft pods, but if you do one pod with 53 people, its a horrible system. I really, really do enjoy limited formats and have no problem with paying for them, but $30 is getting steep, especially when the "fun factor" is lowered by shaving off rounds.
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