Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Fall Regional Prizes Anounced

to those who think the universe revolves avround them, I'm sorry.

It's not a question of who the universe revolves around, but a question of equality. To think that /protesting/ a widely disliked policy automatically makes them selfish and egocentric. :nonono:

I think that if we didn't go to such lavish worlds locations every other year, maybe TPCI would have a bit more money to work with. I can't help but think that the decision to have worlds somewhere so close to Seattle has something to do with overspending on Hawaii. Of course that's just speculation, I have no idea where their money flows from. I do know that I'd rather have just 1,500 dollars allowed to each regionals than go to hawaii AGAIN. If that's not something Pokemon can cut out I don't know what is. Seems like efficient budget cutting to me.
 
I'm glad you acknowledge that "the masters are the most devoted." Some people believe that businesses should reward their most devoted customers. Other people believe that businesses should treat all customers equally. From its actions, it seems like TPCi subscribes to neither of those philosophies.

Well, you're leaving out the other valid business philosophies. Dave said the company is interested in creating more devoted customers by targeting the 12-and-under age bracket that research shows has the greatest chance to turn into lifelong fans.

Growth is vital to a business. Investing the most in the people that are the most devoted doesn't make business sense. I'd really like it if you could share examples of companies that do this, as well as those that flat-out treat all customers equally.
 
Well if you dislike the prize support then don't play. I personally hope I T4 a regional. You will not hear me conpkain about the prize support.

Also I am not against those who suggest alternatives. Ive been with pokemon since Wizards so I have seen all the support changes. I do not see how people can just whine and complain and yet do nothing. If you have emailed or written P!P then good for you. at least you are contributing to tje solution. those that dont contribute to the problem.

Also my analogy was based on people speak up on one thing but not the other.

But then I suppose I just can see the big picture.
 
Let me expand on that. if p!p notices a big drop in masters numbers at regionals then maybe they would look at why.
 
Let me expand on that. if p!p notices a big drop in masters numbers at regionals then maybe they would look at why.

I was wondering when this would come up, I don't feel that Fall Regionals will be the best indicator of this decision's damage. Many players have already made travel plans or invested in cards to participate in Regionals at this point. Many have taken off work. At this point, those are all 'sunk costs' as economists would say. There is no crying over spilt milk. Furthermore, you shouldn't be looking for a drop in Masters attendance. There will be more players at each Regional. There should be a 'predicted growth' versus an 'actual growth.' If the actual growth falls short of the predicted (again, I mean at a future Regionals) we have reason to believe that something has caused this besides random chance.

I might feel differently if we had a way to track hotel cancellations, but we can't.

Well, you're leaving out the other valid business philosophies. Dave said the company is interested in creating more devoted customers by targeting the 12-and-under age bracket that research shows has the greatest chance to turn into lifelong fans.

Growth is vital to a business. Investing the most in the people that are the most devoted doesn't make business sense. I'd really like it if you could share examples of companies that do this, as well as those that flat-out treat all customers equally.

Companies that reward their most devoted customers occur in two common arenas. Many supermarkets have rewards cards, and while the devotion you need to show (signing up) is small, you're also giving them your information.

Only recently, The Wall Street Journal reported on "Luxury companies have grown in China, and so have the lengths to which they will go to make Chinese consumers feel special." (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772804577618682194946736.html)

Other companies pride themselves on treating everyone the same, I think the name of the restaurant chain I'm thinking of is Dick's (in the Seattle area) where you can't modify the order at all (there is no extra X or hold the Y). They were literally unkind to my friends and I when we showed up, it is part of their gimmick.


I think it's tough for some of us who have lived with this game for so many years. I remember getting my first trip from Wizards of the Coast, and they paid for me and my Dad to go to Long Beach CA to play in the Super Trainer Showdown. I never imagined a day where I wouldn't be playing this game. Then they eliminated my age bracket. I tried the Professor Shtick they offered, and I enjoyed it, but it simply wasn't the same. Maybe it was the lack of prizes? I'm honestly not sure. I left for the game for longer than I needed to. I could've come back sooner, but I had moved on to other things in my life. High school was a busy time for me.

I never expected to get back into the game during college. Frank and Michael Diaz basically convinced me to get serious again. I got 2nd at a States that year, and remember feeling bad about it because of the big gap in prizes between 1st and 2nd. This was mitigated since I lost Frank Diaz, and he is one of my closest friends. I whiffed my Worlds Invite pretty hard between a disappointing Regionals run and a bad Nationals performance. A handful of my friends convinced me to go to Orlando and try to grind. Winning that trip to San Diego (as a Master) is what probably has me playing today.

Read into my experience how you will, but the way it speaks to me is that giving out a trip (or part of a trip, ie a stipend) helps drive someone to feel a long-term connection to the brand no matter what age they are.

As said by many others, I appreciate knowing the reasoning behind the decision even if I'm not happy with it. Perhaps mostly so I know which of my reasons for disliking the choice is an effective counterpoint.
 
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For all we know we actually are getting less players attending regionals. The reason you see higher regionals numbers is because players no longer have to choose which regionals they can attend. I don't have to choose between Wisconsin, Indiana and Missouri anymore. Now I can attend all 3. 2 years ago they would have seen 1 player between 3 tournaments, last year it would be 2 players between 3 tournaments, this year it'll be 3 players between 3 tournaments, yet it's still only 1 person.
 
Well, you're leaving out the other valid business philosophies. Dave said the company is interested in creating more devoted customers by targeting the 12-and-under age bracket that research shows has the greatest chance to turn into lifelong fans.

Ah yes, how could I forget the vaunted "make your devoted customers feel slighted while searching for new devoted customers" strategy. </sarcasm>

Growth is vital to a business. Investing the most in the people that are the most devoted doesn't make business sense. I'd really like it if you could share examples of companies that do this, as well as those that flat-out treat all customers equally.

Examples of business that reward loyalty:
  • Banks: Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, etc.
  • Airlines: American Airlines, United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, etc.
  • Hotels: Holiday Inn, Embassy Suites, Best Western, etc.
  • Clothing Stores: Guess, GAP, Banana Republic
  • Shoes Stores: Foot Locker, Modell's Footaction USA, etc.
  • Department Stores: Macy's, JP Penney's, Bloomingdales, etc.
  • Gas Stations: Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, etc.
  • Health Care Stores: CVS, Rite Aid, Duane Reade, etc.
  • Toy and Hobby Stores: Gamestop, Midtown Comics, New England Comics, etc.
  • Restaurants/Delis: Panera, Hale and Hearty Soups/Sandwiches, Pret a Manger, etc.
Do you want me to continue? You can google things like "the best loyalty programs" or similar search keywords. As an example, here's a link for you.

Market exploration and growing underdeveloped customer demographic groups typically do not come at the expense of loyal customers.
 
Ah yes, how could I forget the vaunted "make your devoted customers feel slighted while searching for new devoted customers" strategy. </sarcasm>



Examples of business that reward loyalty:
  • Banks: Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, etc.
  • Airlines: American Airlines, United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, etc.
  • Hotels: Holiday Inn, Embassy Suites, Best Western, etc.
  • Clothing Stores: Guess, GAP, Banana Republic
  • Shoes Stores: Foot Locker, Modell's Footaction USA, etc.
  • Department Stores: Macy's, JP Penney's, Bloomingdales, etc.
  • Gas Stations: Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, etc.
  • Health Care Stores: CVS, Rite Aid, Duane Reade, etc.
  • Toy and Hobby Stores: Gamestop, Midtown Comics, New England Comics, etc.
  • Restaurants/Delis: Panera, Hale and Hearty Soups/Sandwiches, Pret a Manger, etc.
Do you want me to continue? You can google things like "the best loyalty programs" or similar search keywords. As an example, here's a link for you.

Market exploration and growing underdeveloped customer demographic groups typically do not come at the expense of loyal customers.

Ran out of thanks, but Sam you are one of my favorite posters on this board, bar none.
 
psychup2034: Many of those same companies also offer extra incentives to new customers to try to bring them into the fold. United, for example, gives away some ridiculous number of miles if you sign up for their credit card and mileage program. Bank of America gives piles of free stuff and $100 to college students who sign up for a bank account with them in September (at least around here). I don't think this is a perfect parallel, because these companies reward both significant loyalty and getting into their loyalty program, but even if one disagrees with the way Pokemon is trying to give extra incentive to young/new players, it's reasonable to offer something to new players/members that isn't accessible to long-term players/members.
 
Just cut the travel award out of all age divisions...

It saves TPCI money and its equal across all age divisions...

Simple as that...
 
You can google things like "the best loyalty programs" or similar search keywords. As an example, here's a link for you.

Sure, but these are retention programs. They are designed to get you to keep coming back and spending money on their product. And it's way too easy to simply discount a price....the customer is still taking additional money out of their wallet and spending it. Aside from the cost of running and advertising these programs and the bit of lost profit, it's not much of an "investment". In other words, this $1.00 discount I get on a loaf of bread at the grocery store because of their loyalty program is not the same as asking The Pokémon Company to give you a travel stipend for winning a free tournament.

If we really want to see the comparison, look at the big picture: Pokémon TCG's retention program is releasing new sets every 3 months and Organized Play Tournaments requiring the Modified format. How else will they entice customers to keep buying the latest cards?

So good, by playing in Organized Play, we are opting into their loyalty program year after year. Yay. It's fun. One of the benefits of being in that loyalty program is that you can earn travel stipends if you place high enough in a Regional tournament, but now only if you are of a certain age bracket. But that's discrimination! Why don't we all get the same benefits?!

Know what? Other loyalty programs discriminate too. Why should that guy get to board the plane before I do? And why should he get free upgrades to First Class when available? We're both boarding this same plane to Los Angeles!



Market exploration and growing underdeveloped customer demographic groups typically do not come at the expense of loyal customers.

I suppose it remains to be seen if there will be an expense of loyal customers. This was a calculated move, so as Dave says if it goes the way they hope, it will continue. If not, they will adjust.
 
Know what? Other loyalty programs discriminate too. Why should that guy get to board the plane before I do? And why should he get free upgrades to First Class when available? We're both boarding this same plane to Los Angeles!

This exactly highlights the point I'm trying to make!

"Why should that guy get to board the plane before I do?" Because he has been a more loyal customer. He has probably flown on many more flights with the airline than you have. He has spent more money with the airline. Thus, he gets to board the plane first as a reward for his loyalty.

"Why should Juniors and Seniors get $500 stipends for coming in 2nd-4th at Regionals when Masters don't?" Because the Juniors/Seniors have been more loyal customers. They have probably bought many more cards from Pokemon than the Masters have. They have spent more money with Pokemon. Thus, they get the $500 stipends from T2-T4 at Regionals as a reward for their loyalty. :nonono:

See where the logic doesn't connect?
 
Know what? Other loyalty programs discriminate too. Why should that guy get to board the plane before I do? And why should he get free upgrades to First Class when available? We're both boarding this same plane to Los Angeles!
That is not discrimination :/ There's a HUGE difference. You have the ability to gain the reward that the other man got. Your loyalty is something you can change. Your age is something you cannot change. See the difference? The air plane company is rewarding the other guy for his loyalty. TPCi is rewarding juniors/seniors for their age. Huge difference.
 
Given there is no cost to Masters, I still don't get it.

Instead I'm just going to go back to playing Pokemans and getting ready for Regionals :\
 
Given there is no cost to Masters, I still don't get it.

Where is this free gas you're pumping to get to Regionals? Any which hotel chain are you using to get free rooms?

Moreover, the issue isn't really about cost. It's about fairness and equity. What I still don't understand is why they decided to split the rewards for Juniors/Seniors/Masters as $500/$500/$0, and not do something like $400/$400/$200. At least that split would be defensible because Juniors and Seniors typically have to transport 2 people, themselves and their parents.
 
That is not discrimination :/ There's a HUGE difference. You have the ability to gain the reward that the other man got. Your loyalty is something you can change. Your age is something you cannot change. See the difference? The air plane company is rewarding the other guy for his loyalty. TPCi is rewarding juniors/seniors for their age. Huge difference.

Well-said, that was worth clarifying. I am not using the word "discrimination" in the prejudicial or illegal sense of the word. Fundamentally, it just means looking at two different things and noting a difference. I'm saying it is simply the opposite of treating both things equally.

This exactly highlights the point I'm trying to make!

"Why should that guy get to board the plane before I do?" Because he has been a more loyal customer. He has probably flown on many more flights with the airline than you have. He has spent more money with the airline. Thus, he gets to board the plane first as a reward for his loyalty.

Very much agree. But to pull this off and reward him individually, they must be able to attribute the direct sales made to him. In fact, the airline is very specific about what they let him do with his purchases. For instance, once he buys a plane ticket, he cannot let someone else fly on that ticket even if it's as simple as changing a name electronically. Their rules prohibit it. And let's not forget the variable pricing of that plane ticket. Buy it too far out? It costs a certain amount. But it too close to the departure date? It will cost more. Buy it at the right time? That's when you get the best price. That happens in Pokémon TCG too with supply and demand of the secondary market, but it's not something the company is putting you through.

"Why should Juniors and Seniors get $500 stipends for coming in 2nd-4th at Regionals when Masters don't?" Because the Juniors/Seniors have been more loyal customers. They have probably bought many more cards from Pokemon than the Masters have. They have spent more money with Pokemon. Thus, they get the $500 stipends from T2-T4 at Regionals as a reward for their loyalty.

See where the logic doesn't connect?

If you change your words to indicate the future value of those Juniors/Seniors, then yes the logic does connect. In fact, that is precisely what Dave said the company is going for. You still may not like it, but you have to acknowledge it is logical.

Furthermore, I'll say that because The Pokémon Company cannot track how much you are buying individually, they can really only research and track the market demographically. And their demographic research probably says that Junior and Senior-aged kids buy the most Pokémon product.
 
Furthermore, I'll say that because The Pokémon Company cannot track how much you are buying individually, they can really only research and track the market demographically. And their demographic research probably says that Junior and Senior-aged kids buy the most Pokémon product.
Let me give my, and dictionary.com's definition of "discrimination"... just so that we're on the same page. "Discrimination is the treatment of a person or group based on the class, or category which that person belongs to rather than on individual merit". Loyalty is individual merit. Age is a category. That's my distinction... if the last clause wasn't there, just about everything could be considered discrimination in some way. "Why would Microsoft hire THAT guy with a PH. D and experience in technology instead of ME, a high school graduate with no experience working?!".

While my point of view is limited, I worked with a card shop for quite a while. Masters were far more consistent spenders while seniors and juniors were more random. They would buy on a whim. I could always count on my masters to buy two boxes every set, two packs ever week, etc. I had two consistent senior spenders, but the rest were mostly random and on a whim. While I do not have the exact numbers, it felt like masters spent a lot more on cards than juniors and seniors. Obviously, I do not see the whole sales picture, but just from my shop, masters spent a lot more than juniors and seniors.

TPCi cannot track spent money, but they can track tournament participation. I think that'd be a good enough replacement to reward loyalty. They used to reward loyalty with player rewards. There were three tiers... everyone got tier 1 prizes. Some people got tier 2 and only a few got tier 3. Before that, we got more POP packs from are rewards based on the number of tournaments that we went to. These loyalty rewards have basically stopped.

Just to pop an idea in! If we want to reward loyalty, why not use Play Points as a point system in an online shop, similar to the points professors spend to get cool professor stuff. That'd make EVERYONE want to continue playing if they could spend their Play Points on cool things
 
this is a joke just 2 years ago there were scholarships(actually less than 2 years ago b/c they were in the spring only) and they took those away and now they're "discriminating" against masters...pretends to be excited....
 
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