dialga master
Member
I think he's saying that in his opinion, no one would have a good reason to the think that both Garchomp and Hydreigon are bad.
Garchom/Alteria; Another Gengar Prime?
- Thread starter Ignatious
- Start date
Well, unless he backs his opinion up, there's not much more to be said.
Also, I didn't say anything about the cards being bad. I only said that they are underwhelming to me. They were dominating in Japan and very hyped, but when I played with them, they were not significantly better (or, in a lot of cases, at all better) than the other decks in the format.
Also, I didn't say anything about the cards being bad. I only said that they are underwhelming to me. They were dominating in Japan and very hyped, but when I played with them, they were not significantly better (or, in a lot of cases, at all better) than the other decks in the format.
^I kinda know what you mean. I tested today and won most of the time with Hydreigon/Darkrai (don't say it, I know this means nothing, but I am simply stating MY results. your results could be and will probably be completely different) and I see the decks can run a little slow compared to last format.
PidgeyCornerFTW
New Member
I tested the Garchomp/Altaria vs Darkrai/Hydreigon ever since my Nationals concluded. In my testing, the matchup is about 60/40 in Darkrai's favour. If you keep taking out their Altaria, they'll be unable to pile up damage on Darkrai and force you to waste Max Potions. Garchomp/Altaria might take Catcher KO's on Hydreigon sometimes, but in my testing, not very often as it would just leave you open to another Night Spear.
Also, since I run Shaymin EX, it usually destroys Garchomp/Altaria after I N them to 1 or 2 cards. Again I stress that all this is what I've experienced from my own testing, so you might have different results
Also, since I run Shaymin EX, it usually destroys Garchomp/Altaria after I N them to 1 or 2 cards. Again I stress that all this is what I've experienced from my own testing, so you might have different results
JimboPro
New Member
I tested the Garchomp/Altaria vs Darkrai/Hydreigon ever since my Nationals concluded. In my testing, the matchup is about 60/40 in Darkrai's favour. If you keep taking out their Altaria, they'll be unable to pile up damage on Darkrai and force you to waste Max Potions. Garchomp/Altaria might take Catcher KO's on Hydreigon sometimes, but in my testing, not very often as it would just leave you open to another Night Spear.
Also, since I run Shaymin EX, it usually destroys Garchomp/Altaria after I N them to 1 or 2 cards. Again I stress that all this is what I've experienced from my own testing, so you might have different results
Our testing sounds about the same except the 60/40 sounds generous to the Garchomp deck, you must have a better garchomp list or I have an extremely good Darkrai list... Garchomp usually only wins 2 out of 10 games in my testing!
Otaku
Active Member
A lot of objections in Ignatious' first post feel incomplete or perhaps skewed. The deck should be setting up better... if it isn't, maybe the Japanese metagame is a bit slower (or a similar difference), or maybe there is an honest issue with the build being used (or personal playstyle). One would think that Garchomp itself should be making strategic OHKOs. Note that against a Dark Trance deck, that includes taking down whatever has Energy on it.
It really sounds like a lot of arguments hinge on facing opponent's with a better set-up. I mean, Altarchomp (my name for it) shouldn't be so slow that I am regularly staring down two Hydreigon and two fully powered or at least nearly fully powered Darkrai EX before it can start swinging. One is a challenge, but if you can't move Energy off of it, yeah your opponent can retreat and heal, but are they supposed to be Dark patching twice and manually attachin an Energy to a spare Darkrai EX to come on the offensive again? Don't they need to be setting up another Hydreigon?
I've seen some good players call a deck a failure because they were off by only a few cards from the "correct" build, and/or it just played counterintuitively. Seriously, some decks fly in the face of general deck building or smart plays. Given what I have scene, I am neither convinced Altarchomp is BDIF (or even a top deck), nor convinced it is a hopeless cause (or even especially bad).
It really sounds like a lot of arguments hinge on facing opponent's with a better set-up. I mean, Altarchomp (my name for it) shouldn't be so slow that I am regularly staring down two Hydreigon and two fully powered or at least nearly fully powered Darkrai EX before it can start swinging. One is a challenge, but if you can't move Energy off of it, yeah your opponent can retreat and heal, but are they supposed to be Dark patching twice and manually attachin an Energy to a spare Darkrai EX to come on the offensive again? Don't they need to be setting up another Hydreigon?
I've seen some good players call a deck a failure because they were off by only a few cards from the "correct" build, and/or it just played counterintuitively. Seriously, some decks fly in the face of general deck building or smart plays. Given what I have scene, I am neither convinced Altarchomp is BDIF (or even a top deck), nor convinced it is a hopeless cause (or even especially bad).
i have almost the same results .i played darkrai&hydreigon and won 5 of 6 games vs garchomp altaria.
RetiredRocketZapdos6669
New Member
I've played with both deck so far, but more so garchomp and i'm going to have to say the eel matchup sounds about right. It's a pita matchup for me but it not unwinnable. I thought hydreigon/darkrai was an easy matchup since i was chunking away t2/t3 but it might have been the other players making mistakes with the deck. Overall i'm probably going to go with some type of sableye toolbox abuse when i get more experience to with the game. It seems like a good card and buffoalant also looks to be something i'm interested in.
PidgeyCornerFTW
New Member
I probably have a horrible Darkrai list.What I have learnt from playtesting these two decks against each other is that Garchomp/Altaria is extremely quick and can usually get a Mach Cut on T2 with at least one Altaria out, thanks to Gabite speeding up the deck. If you aim for Deino and Zweilous early game and prevent a Hydreigon from hitting the board, the matchup would be highly in your favour.
However, I only run 4-3-4 Garchomp which is the maximum I can go, and if they get ko'd constantly it's hard to mount a comeback. Having Altarias set up for double Night Spear ko's is disastrous and makes Mach Cut virtually useless. Really the only way to win this matchup is prevent the Hydreigon engine from surfacing, then pile up damage on Darkrais and take 6 prizes before Darkrai max-potion-stalls you out. :wink:
Ignatious
New Member
I will admit that in my testing games with the deck I've gone second every game but once. Which I'm sure adds bias to the conclusion I drew concerning the deck and why I believe it's hard to set up. This leads me to believe that perhaps the setting up and early game ON AVERAGE isn't necessarily so bad, but the deck clearly has issues with going 2nd. However... When I go to a tournament I hope to go X-0 or X-1 in the swiss, especially when it comes to the no cut BRs. If this deck has such problems with going second, I don't see these hopes being realistic, when I'm going to be going second on average 3 times per tournament.