Guru Point Challenge #6 - Making MACHAMP Work

[Rogue Archetype]

Hi Pokemon Gurus!

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I'll be tossing up these brainteasing challenges to:

1. Keep you from getting bored/ Give us all something to do.
2. Help us share some nifty little tricks-of-the-trade that may lead to some powerful and creative ideas.
________________

Today's Deck is: Machamp

"Take Out" is just SO good to have around sometimes.

With LuxChomp having so much success season-after-season, you can't help but peer into your binder and give ol' SF Machamp a thought or two.

The problem has always been that darn "Hurricane Punch." NOBODY enjoys flipping tails and watching that Machamp fail epically.

Well, now we have Machamp Prime! Does this card make things better against decks that AREN'T SPs? Also, is it possible to build a Machamp deck that can pawn SPs AND everything else?

Do we want to tech in, dare I say it, an Exploud? or is Rescue energy a Godsend for Champ?

SO... today's challenge is to contribute a REAL (viable) examples of how MACHAMP could be successful in a deck that has synergy, consistency, and winning potential.

FEEL FREE TO USE ANY OF THE NEW "BLACK AND WHITE" CARDS IN YOUR SUGGESTIONS!

Please read what has already been posted in the thread before you provide your own input.

Good answers that lack detail = 1 Guru points
Good answers that are detailed = 2 Guru points
Brilliant Answer that may actually work! = 4 Guru Points! - (Decklist and Strategy )

This excersise gets us in the habit of offering suggestions without destroying a player's effort to TRY his/her idea.

RULE = YOU HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC and detailed to get full points (it helps fuel new ideas and keeps the thread alive)

TIP - If you give an abbreviated effort, you won't earn as many points. ( i.e. You can't just say "Play it like Jumpluff with a 1-0-1 Flygon tech" and earn the full 2 Guru Points )

Answers that appear to be off-topic (silly or spam) are subject to deletion.

YOU LOSE POINTS if your respose is merely that the card is 1) not good 2) cannot work
(TIP: Even if this is true, it's not creative and you'd be better off not posting a response at all.)

A list of point leaders will be stickied to the top of the Strategy Forum.

There are some very strong players visiting our forum, here's your opportunity to show off your knowledge of the game.

Secret Tip = LINK cards that you mention in your examples to images in PokeGym's Research Tower. This will earn you 1 additional bonus point for your post!

 

[fawfulgengar]

Let's see, a machamp deck? I asssume it has to use bot SF machamp and Prime. Well, I guess that first, I'd establish the basic and stage 1 that we're using. I prefer Machop SF for the +10 weakness, much better than the x2 one on the TM machop.
http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=41075
For Machoke, I prefer the Triumphant one for the slightly higher HP and the ability to plop down an instant 30 for :fighting:.
http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=51046
I think that the machamp line should be 4-3-2 Machamp prime/2 Machamp SF. That way, it's easily accomplishable to get out both Machamps. I guess that w could try a Machamp X as well, but that might clutter the Machamp line a bit too much. Anyways, thanks for your time!

 

[vegitalian]

A couple of tips for the speed build:
-Using Hurricane Punch is a move of desperation... Try to use it as little as possible. Abusing the X, and getting enough energy to Rage or Strong-Willed is a much better strategy.
-Rare Candy is a great short-term card, but BTS will help your rebuild
-When testing your build, pay close attention to which cards are clogging your hand whenever you use Uxie - if Energy or Supporters are frequently preventing you from drawing cards, you may want to cut back on them
Unown R is vital for Speedchamp. If you are not running Unown R, you are not running Speedchamp.

 

[Aron*]

Machamp can be a great deck to play. It has many different ways to be played. You can use speed machamp which is just using machamp SF only, uxie and unown R which I think is a deck for fooling around with.



The second way way of running Machamp is by using machamp SF, Prime and donphan prime. This deck lets you do 60 damage for one fighting energy while you build up a machamp prime. Once your donphan is knocked out almost all of your bench should have damage whick machamp prime shuold be able to use its second attack for massive damage.

Deck lists:
Speed Machamp:
4 Machop SF
3 Machoke SF
3 Machamp SF
1 Machamp Prime
4 Uxie LA
4 Unown R LA
1 Unown Q MD/20 Pokemon

Trainers/Supporters Stadiums
1 Luxury ball
2 Seeker
4 dusk ball
4 quick ball
3 PokeDeck
4 Pokemon Catcher (Black And White)
3 Broken time space
4 Rare candy
(Black and White)
3 Junk Arm/32 trainers

Energy:
8 Fighting

Strategy
You want to get machamp SF out turn one if you go second. You use as much trainers as you need to get the machamp out. The pokemon catcher if for the easy knockouts when you opponent has an evolved active pokemon and a basic pokemon on the bench.

Mchamp Donphan

Pokemon:
3 Phanphy HGSS
3 Donpgan Prime
4 Machop SF
3 Mackoke SF
2 MAchamp SF
2 MAchamp Prime
3 Uxie LA 20 Pokemon

Trainers
3 Pokemon collector
3 Broken time space
1 Palmer's Contribution
1 Luxury ball
3 expert Belt
3 Warp point
3 Pokemon catcher
3 bebe's search
2 rare candy
2 Pokemon communication
3 seeker/27 trainers

4 double colourless energy
9 fighting

Strategy
You want to start of by attacking with donphan and using its earthquake. You then want to use heavy impact. once you have used donphan for a while you use machamp Prime's poke power to switch donphan and machamp mave donphan' energy to machamp. With that you should be hitting with machamp for around 130 damage.

 

[waynegg]

The best way to make Machamp work- If only we had a competitive meta which consisted almost exclusively of Haymaker Style basic Pokemon decks, then you could just Take Ou... Oh... Wait...

But Seriously, just run it with Blissey Prime, Clefable, Double Colorless Energy, and Seeker with a standard set up engine and a few Fighting energy. Bam! Top tables here you come.

 

[Shen]

Some minor ideas first:

- I've tried Machamp with 1-0-1 Exploud, but that was last format =/ I think Champ's weakness is a huge liability because most counters play off of it. Even many SP decks ditch the Champ counter altogether and plan to OHKO it with Uxie Lv.X + Lucario + Flash Bite.

- In a deck composed of mainly SF Champ (3 SF Champ, 1 Lv.X), I've always liked the Unown R + Pokemon Rescue engine, but I started saving the Rescues after awhile. If you are able to draw first blood with Take-Out, you can sit on Machamp Lv.X the rest of the game to stay ahead in prizes.. Recycling Machamp Lv.X for KO's is an approach I hardly ever see, but it's very effective. The best way to do that, IMO, is with Rescues. R_A's suggestion of Rescue Energy is something I hadn't thought of, I'll have to try it.

- Lumineon has always caught the eye of Machamp players, but has often been written off as a gimmick. Now with Seekers, you have a 100% chance of catching a basic in their hand and having an open bench space to put it on. Seekers help Machamp prime lots, but it can also score free Take Outs for SF Machamp.

Anyways, here's a deck idea I had been toying with:

--23 Pokemon
4-3-4 Machamp (4 SF. Can alternatively do 3 SF, Lv.X) http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=41031
3-3 Abomasnow http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=41023
2-1 Uxie Lv.X
1 Ditto (LA) http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=towercard&imageid=35666
1 Unown Q
1 Azelf
--25 Trainers
4 Rare Candy
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Warp Point
3 Bebe's Search
3 Pokemon Communication
3 Broken Time-Space
3 Looker's Investigation
1 Luxury Ball
1 Palmer's Contribution
--12 Energy
5 Fighting Energy
4 DCE
3 Rainbow Energy

This deck is actually focused more on Abomasnow. The main strategy is simply to spread with Abomasnow. If you play against SP, you do not try to spread at all (because Garchomp halts it) and you instead go for Machamp. Aboma has a decent match-up with Vilegar, but I have never tried it against Lostgar. The Lookers are to solidify your SP match-up and they also let you shuffle your own hand away if its full of Trainers/Pokemon against Gengar. Gengar can't really put a dent in Abomasnow, so you are usually safe if you only draw 1 card. Ditto helps even more against Gengar, and with a Rainbow energy you can clean up pretty nicely with Shadow Room or Curse Drop. Against anything else (besides Gyarados, which is coming up shortly), you're free to spread and bring out Machamp to clean up if you must. Most things should be within KO range. Also, spread sometimes has a hard time getting a last prize or two... with Machamp and Warp Points you can usually find something.

This deck does have a terrible time with Gyarados. Your best bet is to hope they open Sableye with no other basics, go first, and then you get a T1 Take Out with Machamp. Otherwise, each Warp Point must count for a KO. Pretty much everything on Gyara's bench is basic, so its all open to Take Outs after a Warp Point. You can optionally up this to 4 Warp Points but I think that's a bit excessive for only Gyarados. If you can survive long enough and you plan accordingly, 3 energy drops (2 Fighting + 1 DCE) is enough to OHKO Gyarados if they don't OHKO you with Crobats (Rage for 60 + 90 from Tail Revenge - 20 resistance = 130, give or take 20 from belt). Machamp Lv.X is also option, but not very reliable. You can try and spread but it's usually not very successful. Below Zero is also nice, but they often have a Warp Energy. I think a nice tech would be Devoluters because they're nice with spread anyways and they help against Gyara, but I haven't tried them yet.

I'm still working on the list, I had been playing it a little before States but I kinda abandoned it. I might shave off some dead draws for some Pokedex Handy 910is or something. It's tough because you don't want to get rid of all of your Candies/BTS, but they often clog your hand if you're focusing on spreading. T1 spread is nice I guess. And if you're playing against SP, your Abomasnow line gets in the way.

I guess this is a different approach to the Umbreon/Machamp strategy. Abomasnow covers Gengar just as well as Umbreon IMO. If you have a working list from that, you can probably transform it into this. I like it better because you have more options and your strategy isn't as linear.

 

[Lawman]

I'll talk about the Machamp/Donphan deck I built for my JR. I call it DonKing. "Don" for Donphan and King bc Don King was a famous boxing promoter and the Champ has 4 arms to box better with!

4/4/2/2 for Champ (2 SF and 2 Primes)
3/3 Donphan Prime line
2 Uxies
------
20 Pokes

10 fighting
2 DCE (works w/ Champ prime)
2 rescue
-----------
14 energy

4 collectors
4 bebe's
2 judge (for SP match....break the cyrus chain)
2 SSU
3 BTS
2 PONT (hand refresher)
2 Seeker (tag up w/ prime and seeker the damaged champ or reuse uxie)
1 Palmers
1 luxary ball
3 RC
2 Pokemon Communication
----------
26 T/S/S

60 cards

If this isnt his list, it is real close (going off memory). Starting either phanphy or 'chop is good bc the deck can hit a T1 Champ (take out) or Don Prime easily. From there, you are hitting hard, setting up for Champ Primes on the bench, waiting to "tag in" to take over the beat downs.

The deck is meant to hit hard early for quick KO's (ergo the DonKing name) and also have some stamina for later games. Its worst match up IMO is Gyarados. You can tech in a couple of cards to help the match up, but DonKing will never be a tier 1 deck for MAs. It is a good deck for younger players and for MA players looking to KO the competition early.

Keith

 

[Vllgidiot]

Here's an idea I've fooled around with in the past. It involves using SF Machcamp with Lumineon and Politoed. The idea is to get to a point where you play a seeker to ensure they have an open bench spot and basic in hand. Then you use Lumineon's Fin Luster power to bring the basic active and retreat into Machamp to use Take Out. The Politoed comes into play when you do the combo the second time allowing you to use Fin Luster retreating Machcamp or using warp point/switch. It's power LeapFrog allows you to make lumineon active from your bench so you can keep using fin luster and retreating into machamp for take-out.

So thats the idea now here's the list:

Pokemon (26):
2-2-2 Politoed
3-2 lumineon
4-3-3/1 Machamp 3 SF 1 Prime
2 Uxie
2 Mesprit

Trainers/Supporters/Stadium (22):
4 Seeker
3 Collectors
3 Bebes
3 Broken Time Space
2 Professor Oaks New Theory
2 Rare Candy
2 Communication
2 VS Seeker
2 Junk Arm

Energy (12):
6 Fighting
4 Double Colorless
2 Rescue

http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=50136

http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=41004

http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=41031

This is a slightly different list than the last list I'e actually had built/played with. Its flaws are in consistency but it's not the most inconsistent deck I've seen. If you open anything other than Uxie/Mesprit and have a collectors in hand you're usually in good enough shape. The mesprits help if you have a slow setup because you just collector for it and try to slow your opponent down as well. They come in handy once you're set up as well because you can keep getting them up with seeker and continue to psychic lock your opponent. Another thing to point out is that you dont need to worry about the politoed right away if you have to over extend to get one out. If you just focus on lumineon and machamp you can get the first Seeker-Finluster-take out KO and then try to get politoed out the following turn. the 4 seeker and the 2 VS seekers are the most important things to hang onto once you draw them so that you can keep ensuring you take out a basic pokemon. The junk arm are there simply to give you more options and allow you to use vs seeker and communications more often. The rescue energies help for when Machamp gets koed being able to set another one up next turn with BTS or Rare Candy and the Prime is mostly a contingency plan for if things just arent going your way and you're up against a stage 1/2 deck.

One last note about this deck is that it worked more smoothly with a 4-3-2/3 Politoed/Poliwrath Line and a tech machamp. It was much easier to get out and LA poliwrath hits for 60 damge for 1 fighting energy allowing me to hit most basics with an expertbelt. Poliwrath also has a better second attack than hurricane punch. hitting 90 for a fighting energy and double colorless then doing 20 to itself. However that deck lost badly to luxray and this is a machamp thread.