Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Has Pokemon Organized play jumped the Sharpedo?

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JandPDS

JandPDS

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So many changes and so many unpopular ones, Battle Roads easily the most fun tourneys of the year are gone. Worlds is now 500 champion points to qualify. Players will have to pay to play and and even Japan is second guessing themselves with Nerfing established cards, first Rare Candy in a basic heavy format and now turning Pokémon Catcher into Pokémon reversal. Who knows what they will decide to change next?

I do not know what the right answer is, I am not saying that it has or it has not, I am just wondering if the best days of Pokémon TCG in the rear view mirror or do you think that the game will adjust to all of the changes and continue to grow in the future?
 
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I don't really know what they are thinking.
Though I have never really tried the super competative stuff, I was thinking about doing so.

With DC being the Worlds Locale, I was interested in trying.
However with the whole point thing, the pay to play, and especially thr whole environment issue, I have serious doubts that I will even bother.

The rule changes do kinda help out for people like myself who don't have a ton of $ to get the "best" cards.

I kinda wonder if they are just planning on getting rid of the physical game.
Thus going all to PTCGO in the future (when they finally iron out the bugs).

I will probably stick with the game for a bit longer, depending on what the X & Y stuff brings.
 
lol @jumping the sharpedo, great reference

Anyways, I don't know what's ahead, but I do know that I had a lot more fun playing back in the SP days of LuxChomp than I do now.

I just feel like there's many things you can do to grow a game and they're not doing it. Make attending worlds more achievable and you'll have a lot more people trying for it, therefore more people buying product and attending events. If you make it too unobtainable, people give up before they even start. Give people better prizes for doing well at events. Be consistent in your bans/punishments. Don't reprint the same cards over and over again so that rotations are meaningless.
 
Is the last point really TPCi's fault, though? They can't help that Japan went crazy with reprinting everything as chase cards during the BW era, and then did Battle Boost.
 
What?
  • I love entrance fees making way for more prizes that go deeper in the standings and reward the top placers
  • I love that I can now get multiple league challenges throughout the year rather than 6 Battle Roads total in my province
  • I love the new first turn rule and the Catcher nerf may end up great overall
  • 500 CP is justifiable with the new payouts for Nationals and Regionals -- especially with how terrible Nationals used to be weighted

In fact, with people I've talked to, rule change has been far more positive than negative. I w.ish people posted publicly more often when they liked changes as I feel PokeGym is only posted on when people are unhappy and need to communicate with TPCi. I am happy a medium exists for the playerbase to weigh in on when we're disappointed with decisions, but I guess we need to post when we're happy too it'll look like they "jumped the sharpedo"
 
I agree with Firestorm. League Challenges should supersede Battle Roads in what they were able to offer (more opportunities, less competition?). Worlds is what it is, and realistically only affects a very small percentage of people in Organized Play. Paying to play is unfortunate, but I suppose it is inevitable once the game grows to a certain size.

My most important point is: you need to look at the game as being cyclical. Regarding the point above about nerfing Rare Candy and now Catcher, Ness also posted this online earlier today..."First we had Gust of Wind, then Pokemon Reversal, then Pokemon Catcher, and now Pokemon Reversal again....TPC can't seem to make up its mind".

The game designers are looking at the larger picture. When they began planning the EX-era, they thought about what changes to game mechanics needed to happen to allow the big beefy EX basics to rise up. Now with an apparent Mega evolution mechanic coming, they are changing the fundamentals of the game to allow those cards to be playable. Players shouldn't operate under the premise that it's "second guessing", it's just changing the game (in cycles if needs be) to keep it fresh and interesting for old and new players alike.


That said, the one aspect that is staying consistent is power creep. I don't know how they begin to counter that for competitive play, aside from releasing a set of relatively weaker Pokémon for a year and then doing a deep rotation. The problem is the casual kids buying packs...why would they aspire to get the latest Pokémon, when they have half the power of the previous ones? (Yes, maybe because they are "new" and maybe it's their favorite Pokémon, but these non-playing kids also just look at HP and attack strength to determine if it's a good card or not. If a whole set is reset to half the strength of a previous set, I'm pretty sure TPC would notice a dip in sales.)
 
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FirestormXVI said:
In fact, with people I've talked to, rule change has been far more positive than negative. I w.ish people posted publicly more often when they liked changes as I feel PokeGym is only posted on when people are unhappy and need to communicate with TPCi. I am happy a medium exists for the playerbase to weigh in on when we're disappointed with decisions, but I guess we need to post when we're happy too it'll look like they "jumped the sharpedo"
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You might want to check around more, and remember to weigh what you hear.

I am seeing a lot of people celebrating, but if you ask why they'll blame something affected by the changes for issues they have with the current metagame... and ignore that even changes that might be a little positive, there is so much negative contained therein. Precedence is a concern, if only because it establishes patterns.

Out of Pokégym, SixPrizes, and PokéBeach (no where near a "scientific" sampling size), things are probably most positive here. PokéBeach is half and half, while SixPrizes is more negative. This is clearly my biased opinion as I lack the hard data to prove it, but it seems like players that know the "why" behind the "how" in "How the game works" don't like these changes. Some are competitive players, some are like me and just love to dissect and discuss the workings in the game.

The litmus test is to see if there is a comment like "Now Evolutions can work!", which ignores that Evolutions are already being played (though struggling as a deck's main attacker) and that the real problems plaguing them are terrible Pokémon to Evolve from, terrible designs for the actual Stage 2 Pokémon (most aren't good by modern standards), and that the best of the best dominate the format by being overly fast and overpowered at the same time.
 
Otaku said:
You might want to check around more, and remember to weigh what you hear.

I am seeing a lot of people celebrating, but if you ask why they'll blame something affected by the changes for issues they have with the current metagame... and ignore that even changes that might be a little positive, there is so much negative contained therein. Precedence is a concern, if only because it establishes patterns.

Out of Pokégym, SixPrizes, and PokéBeach (no where near a "scientific" sampling size), things are probably most positive here. PokéBeach is half and half, while SixPrizes is more negative. This is clearly my biased opinion as I lack the hard data to prove it, but it seems like players that know the "why" behind the "how" in "How the game works" don't like these changes. Some are competitive players, some are like me and just love to dissect and discuss the workings in the game.

The litmus test is to see if there is a comment like "Now Evolutions can work!", which ignores that Evolutions are already being played (though struggling as a deck's main attacker) and that the real problems plaguing them are terrible Pokémon to Evolve from, terrible designs for the actual Stage 2 Pokémon (most aren't good by modern standards), and that the best of the best dominate the format by being overly fast and overpowered at the same time.
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I think he was referring to people IRL, not online, which is probably true, I find people much more appreciative of things IRL and they don't post online.

I also mostly agree with Firestorm, BRs were constantly being complained about being too important, and with League challenges instead only make those points easier to get, which I think also balances the increased CP count to a certain degree. Speaking of the CP count, Pokemon is clearly trying to find an amount that they're comfortable with and are experimenting, if they get too uncomfortable as the season goes on they may increase the value of tournaments, and they may even to another LCQ tournament like they did in Nats last year. It's likely not going to be as major a problem as people think it is.

I'm personally not in favor for entry fees, but I also play strictly for fun, and if it helps support my PTO then I'll happily do so, and I'm glad that they aren't forcing minors to pay.

Lastly as for the Catcher nerf, it'll be interesting to things reshape in a catcherless format, but it isn't really second guessing. Also TPCi has yet to announce it themselves, so it's evident it isn't their fault if they do go through with it.
 
OK so League Challenge will be fun, but they still haven't clarified exactly what those are yet.

Is it gonna be one I these?

1: a tournament where you have to build a specific type of deck (IE it's the Water season, you have to build a water deck).

2: a normal tournament (we have one once a month anyways at our league) with somewhat better prizes (more cost to masters than the normal $5 entry fee).

3: something else
 
I love entrance fees making way for more prizes that go deeper in the standings and reward the top placers
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I will continuously bring up the counter point to this. You will see a dramatic drop in attendance this year because of the prizes going deeper in the standings. This absolutely does nothing to encourage the casual/non-competitive players to "Pay to Play". The end result will be less participants and thus the actual deeper prizes will be less effective than anticipated for those top players. Think about a family of 4 Master players with really only 1 good player being realistically able to make Top Cut because quite honestly "Mom and Dad" are just casual players at League and the older brother is just not good enough. That leaves the other brother (being the better player in the family) being the only one that has a chance at these deeper prizes. If said tournament is Regionals and Regionals costs $25 per head that is $100 for this family to spend to enter the tourney. This does not of course calculate the travel expenses, tolls, gas, Hotel, and meal expenses to attend Regionals. Now this is just an example of a family. Your casual single player that has no chance in making the deeper prizes, what incentive does he/she have to play? They arent going to be helping the elite players to get deeper prizes, thats for certain!!

I think the way to go with this is to provide "deeper prizes" by handing out Booster packs for entry fee. For example the Philly Regionals in October, 7 Booster Boxes are going to be given to 1st place in Masters. Why on Earth does the 1st place player need 7 Booster Boxes along with the Travel award? Wouldnt a better use of those Booster Boxes being open and packs be given for entry? Face it the 1st place player will have a better deck than your casual player and most likely doesnt need any of the current cards.

I love the new first turn rule and the Catcher nerf may end up great overall
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I agree I really like going back to the 1st turn rule we had back in the day. But Catcher being nerfed? That wasnt necessary. The argument to this is that it allows Stage 2 decks to become more playable. Really ? Well lets start making better Stage 2's to begin with. Outside of Blastoise and the Shiftgear Klingklang Plasma Klang and GothAccelgor decks, those were the only real competitive Stage 2 decks anyways.

What needs to go by the waste side is getting rid of cards and stop printing cards that ruin your opponents hand like N and all the other past hand destruction from Rockets Admin and so on. I play multiple card games and Pokemon has always been the worst game with printing cards that destroy your opponents hand. Really there is no fun when you are N to 1 card and your opponent makes a 5 prize comeback because of that. What kind of skill does that take? That just punishes the player that was winning and now has no chance to win because of hand destruction. Even if you are able to afford Tropical Beaches those can easily be replaced by your opponents Stadium before they 'N' you. I have no problem with Catcher but I do have problems with no skill cards like N.
 
@JohnnyBlaze

Since you gave me a chance to highlight it without doing a monster post, it isn't Stage 2 Pokémon that need to be better per se.

All cards need to be made better. The top cards of this format are overpowered, the bulk of the cards are underpowered and far too many are formulaic (No Abilities, few if any effects for attacks, and the effects that are used are the tried and tested). Basic Pokémon meant as primary attackers should be on par with Stage 2 Pokémon. Balance comes not from making one "bigger" than the other, but through pacing the "big Basic" Pokémon so that they won't be ready any faster than Evolutions and will want other Pokémon in the deck to cover essential roles like set-up as well as making the lower Stages of Evolving Pokémon valuable additions to their decks besides being something to Evolve from.
 
I don't know about "jumping the sharpedo" or anything else.
I think the overall conscious agreement amongst all players, fun & competitive is that we are tired of the "fluff" in the last, 10 sets or more?
Query, I don't know how to solve this problem, but I for one, believe that every card should be playable if it is released. Or at least 90% or greater.
Not playable based on a concept we perceive through meta interpretations and observation. But playable in the aspect that if a card doesn't have a standard attack of some sort. It should have an ability to give leeway. We don't need random basic Meowths that have 1 attack that does 30 damage for 2 energies and a possibility of 10 damage to itself. Without a Persian for it to evolve into in the entire format. I'm not speaking literally, but symbolically. All cards should be playable, otherwise there is no purpose in their existence.
Then we can get into the collection argument. But as a collector, don't you think the card would hold more value if the card was playable? Maybe not speaking direct value off the shelf as the set is released, but years down the road? I can still tell you today that Hitmonchan & Electabuzz from base set aren't good by today's standards but they are still in relation to other random rares of their time more valuable because of their past playability.

I know Otaku get's what I'm saying. He usually does. A deeper selection of playability will lead to a more fluent, but yet chaotic and unpredictability to the game.
As a day dreamer, if I were in the head position of choosing what cards make the set print runs. I would want there to be more cards playable.
 
Too add to rileysill32's point, remember that this is a Trading Card Game. I may love dissecting strategy, but the point of the product is to appeal to Pokémon fans in general but also players of the game and collectors specifically e.g. not just trading cards or card game. The beauty of TCGs is that the biggest audience is the least selective, so instead of having to cater to them, you can practically ignore them to focus on the smaller segments.

If they need filler, just start doing alternate artwork or special treatment cards. I am still surprised we didn't get some black and white art cards since it was, ya know, Black and White. Unless there were copyright issues, they could have even lifted images from the manga for cross promotion and cost savings.
 
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I don't mind the fee, I just think that something like 20 dollars for a regionals can be perceived as bit much, and on top of that it's the first event of the season (fall regionals). But yeah poekmon lost it's huge selling point as one of the only TCGs that doesn't have an entry fee.
 
homeofmew said:
I don't mind the fee, I just think that something like 20 dollars for a regionals can be perceived as bit much, and on top of that it's the first event of the season (fall regionals). But yeah poekmon lost it's huge selling point as one of the only TCGs that doesn't have an entry fee.
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People won't mind the fees when they realize and see with their own two eyes that top 64 gets 1/2 a booster box lol. $20 is chump change, if you're going to spend the money on a hotel, gas, food just to travel to regionals. Don't complain about a measly $20 entry fee. That's nothing. And if the $20 is enough for people to complain about it then they need to begin to reevaluate their time and check their priorities and get a decent paying job and secure themselves before worrying about a card game for goodness sake. It's fun to play, but REAL LIFE comes first. I understand if you're a kid under the age of 16 and can't get a job. That sucks that your parents have to take off early to taxi you and your 3 friends from league cross country. And then blow even more money just for you to play.
 
rileysill32 said:
People won't mind the fees when they realize and see with their own two eyes that top 64 gets 1/2 a booster box lol. $20 is chump change, if you're going to spend the money on a hotel, gas, food just to travel to regionals. Don't complain about a measly $20 entry fee. That's nothing. And if the $20 is enough for people to complain about it then they need to begin to reevaluate their time and check their priorities and get a decent paying job and secure themselves before worrying about a card game for goodness sake. It's fun to play, but REAL LIFE comes first. I understand if you're a kid under the age of 16 and can't get a job. That sucks that your parents have to take off early to taxi you and your 3 friends from league cross country. And then blow even more money just for you to play.
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A common misconception I've noticed when it comes to spending is "spending limits". You have to draw the line somewhere. $20 is much more likely that $5 or $10 to hit that line, and obviously more likely than $0. After travel costs and initial card purchases, it really isn't unreasonable for people to find that $20 the straw that breaks the camel's back. If your limit was $100 total to go and before the fee (and probable price hikes compared to last year for everything else) you were at $90... the entry fee is the deal breaker. Think of multi-player households: Pokémon is a family game, after all, and a family with two parents and three kids has to pay an extra $100 to play!

If you're working a minimum wage job in the U.S.A., three hours of work is needed to pay just for the entry fee, and that is assuming that your wages aren't taxed heavily (anyone that assumes that doesn't realize how messed up American tax law is). This was before factoring in how much you could be earning working those hours (or the drawbacks of going then working/working then going). This is before travel expenses as well.

As for the payout: how many people attended Regionals last year? If we only have 64 people... yeah its a solid deal. If you aren't the type to reliably place high and attendance isn't low, you really shouldn't count your boosters before you place. Not everyone has the same odds of placing high at an event.

Lastly, before you lecture people about finding a better job... think. I don't disagree that some people simply cannot afford to play this game, and try to when they shouldn't. TCGs are in a position (unlike many other things) to be quite an affordable hobby when run properly, and Pokémon actually once was (at least where I used to live). Now it of course isn't, but I can see why people get confused. Pokémon jacked with rarity schemes as well as making most of the set "filler". Even if it is the most affordable TCG on the market, that's a relative judgment and its a game for people that probably should be spending their entertainment money elsewhere.

The job market is terrible right now. I find the people that lecture others on it tend to assume anyone who is unemployed right now is the adult "spoiled rich kid" (or at least has that temperament while living off of other people). Some of us have real health concerns (that certain legislation is making worse, not better), have education and skills but for crowded fields (with Student Loans coming due)... or both.
 
As for the payout: how many people attended Regionals last year? If we only have 64 people... yeah its a solid deal. If you aren't the type to reliably place high and attendance isn't low, you really shouldn't count your boosters before you place. Not everyone has the same odds of placing high at an event.
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OTAKU gets it. This is the main reason a family wont attend Regionals like last year. Isnt Pokemon a family/child's game? By not giving out Booster packs for entry fee there is no reason to attend and put money in the prize pool for the Top players. The Top players will utlimately lose in the long run because the prize pool actually will not go up because of the decrease in attendance. Let that one settle in. Im all for paying to play if my family will get boosters for attending. But Im not going to pay $100 bucks to help the prize pool for the Top players.
 
I am sure that Pokemon is going to make it so that whatever we have to pay for the entry fee is a no brainer when it comes to what we will get in return.

Considering that Nationals was free and my son and I came away with HUNDREDS of dollars of free cards/swag, I have no doubt that we will be getting even more now.
 
I get it, I really do. Let's all agree that if we had lower taxation across the board price hikes like the one we are experiencing wouldn't happen. We are at the door step of hyper inflation. I don't want to get into ECON101. But all I will say is life is about choices. The Pokemon TCG is entertainment and it isn't the only form of family entertainment in existence. I would hate to see TCPI run players out of the game because of increases in prices. But The company has to do what they think best to survive and maintain a stable profitability. We should have the same intent in the grand scheme of our lives. It's just a game, for fun.

EDIT:
What is the easiest fix to this problem we have with Pokemon TCG? Print more playable cards and drop the fluff out of sets. Instead of me having to drop $300 from time to time on singles/boxes/boosters, to seek out the good cards. I could cut that in half and settle for a deck that is half the price but still maintains the competitiveness in a different strategy or scheme. The power is scarce.
 
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