How to counter Gothitelle
- Thread starter Dootar
- Start date
StormFront
New Member
ogremarauder
New Member
^ he was looking for a tech in tyram, dcl was mentioned and dismissed cause it doesn't fit in tyram.
ogremarauder
New Member
This could also keep the prize count even to 'lock' their twins. I don't like the idea of handing out prize cards like party favors though. without being able to toss a defender on him, it seems a little underwhelming.
Austino
New Member
That statement depends on the deck playing against Goth.
Magnezone doesn't care about reuniclus. Any smart em/typhlo player techs in kingdra and no more problem, Bad Boar OHKOs, RDL ohkos, Weezing OHKOs,Mirror OHKO's etc.
Stage 1's and zekrom/genies are the only things really affected by the reuniclus.
This is from ~25 games of testing, mind you.
---------- Post added 09/12/2011 at 01:36 PM ----------
Stage one + one energy card to take down a stage two relying on at least 3 if they are tanking?
Fair trade IMO.
ogremarauder
New Member
^ good point, it makes sense from a rescource perspective, though the dce isn't always played in tyram. The only problem is if they pull up the next goth and lock you down again. You'd have to run like a 2-2 to be able to keep up w/ that. Thats alot of dedication to defeat goth.( gratuitous application of theorymon)
sebastianlugo
Member
Black belt. Have fun.
yoyofsho16
New Member
Makes no sense. They can manipulate their prizes with Reuniclus, and do so frequently anyways to use Twins.
sebastianlugo
Member
Think this is a SKILL game what about send active a reshi when it take any damage from gothi, retreat then keep in the bench damaging itself with thyplosion's pokepower until you are able to 1hit ko with outrage, simple. Otherwise if he doesn't ko any pokemon start attacking him with thyplo removing their energies. At some point u will be able to use black belt :thumb:
Qwachansey
Active Member
Everyone saying Weezing needs to look again at the card. It doesn't apply weakness with its attack!
sebastianlugo
Member
"Weezing does 90 damage to itself, and don't apply weakness to this damage"
== FLIP OVER (Wobbuffet - EX:Sandstorm)
Q. Wobbuffet's "Flip Over" says "...does 10 damage to itself, and don't apply weakness or resistance to this damage." Now what doesn't apply weakness and resistance, the 50 base damage or the 10 damage to itself?
A. The phrase applies to the damage being done by Flip Over to Wobbuffet. Weakness/Resistance is ignored for the damage being done to itself. (Sep 25, 2003 PUI Rules Team)
fabulousTaz
New Member
1-1 Weezing doesn't work they just catcher koffing.
sebastianlugo
Member
...............................
you are welcome!
Might I suggest, if you can accommodate enough room, for 1 Relicanth CL and 1 Mew Prime or 1 Relicanth CL and/or 2 Mew Prime?
Firstly, wait for the Gothitelle Lock to be up. This means that you should see at least 1 Reuniclus and 1 Gothitelle on the board. The active Gothitelle should be able to swing for some damage at least. The trap is now been set. You aim to nab a kill on that Gothitelle that your opponent has invested so much energy towards. A kill on that Pokemon would mean a huge resource set back for your opponent, not to mention a potential break from trainer lock.
Prepare a Pokemon Collector to grab 2 Mew Primes/1 Relicanth/1 Reshiram, whichever you do not possess in your hand already. If you do have a Relicanth or Reshiram in hand, keep the Pokemon Collector for later. It would make for more potent psychological warfare if you drop Mew Prime at the very last moment. Moreover, if they do see what is indeed coming, they would prepare for it by dropping their efforts on an active Gothitelle, and charge up a new one. Do remember that Mew will sustain a one hit knock out even if madkinesis hits for an entry-level 30 damage. Another way they can stall you out is to gust up benched Typhlosion Primes with Pokemon Catcher and try to kill it off before you are able to power Mew Prime up in one go.
Use Relicanth's "Prehistoric Wisdom" to send a Reshiram in hand to the Lost Zone. In the meantime, also prepare for yourself a means of retreat, for you would need it right off the bat the next turn.
Bench a Mew Prime, retreat, and power Mew up like you would a Reshiram. use Mew Prime's Lost Link to emulate Blue Flare for a 240 damage. They should be caught off guard. If you have another Mew Prime, drop it onto the board once more, power it up like you would a Reshiram, and hit again. 2 Mew Primes should be able to sweep 4 Gothitelle most of the time, which is more than enough. Use Pokemon Catcher to hunt them down if they attempt to hide in the bench.
Why 4 Gothitelle? This is because once the very first one is down, they should be caught unaware. Even if it is indeed best of 4, expending so many resources on one Gothitelle, a must against a 130 hp Reshiram, would not give them much room to power up the next one, leaving the second Gothitelle to be a free kill. The 3rd one can be charged up by smart players with the 2nd one being a sacrificial wall in active position to avoid Pokemon Catcher shenanigans, but is KO-ed by your 2nd Mew Prime. What will happen to the 4th one is what happened to the 2nd Gothitelle: insufficient time to charge energy up for a kill on Mew.
There are 2 ways. The first way is for them to attack your Mew with a damaged Reshiram/Zekrom via Reuniclus' Damage Swap ability, using Outrage, instead of walling with one more Gothitelle. This allows them to preserve Gothitelle for later fights when the Mew line is down. You can simply use Pokemon Catcher with PlusPower to bring down benched Gothitelle.
Try your very best not to bench a 2nd Mew Prime until it is needed once more. This is because it is possible that they would use Pokemon Catcher to gust your 2nd Mew Prime from the bench and hit it, allowing you to only kill 2 Gothitelle. If you let your usual Reshirams run the field, you can clear it till you force them to lock you with a 3rd Gothitelle, in which the 2nd Mew Prime's services are required.
The second way in which they would try to foil you is to simply load up their Gothitelles with just enough energy to do Madkinesis, then move on to power up other Gothitelle. A balanced field of Gothitelles only allow your Mew Primes to kill 2 Gothitelle. The answer to this is pretty easy. From the get go, apply strong pressure upon their board and take prizes off Gothita and Gothorita. This will limit the eventual number of Gothitelle they can have on the board for the game. A knock out on 2 Gothita/Gothorita is enough to seal the game for them. Even a knock out on 1 Gothita/Gothorita will put plenty of pressure on them, perhaps enough to run them into an energy drought if they overextend and focus more on developing Pokemon lines over their energy supply.
The reason why I included an option for a second Mew is for heavy Gothitelle metagames, where Gothitelle is rampant. Sometimes, when you do have to run a gauntlet, a Mew Prime will be prized and you cannot follow up with the psychic Pokemon KO exchange satisfactorily. One Relicanth is only ever needed in the game, so I only recommend one as opposed to the often multiple-times used Mew, for you should be able to nab early prizes and have a fair chance of grabbing one Relicanth. Getting the 2nd Mew prized is a liability, for one alone does not necessarily give you the game, unlike Relicanth.
I would suggest you save space and run 1 Mew only if you have very potent recovery options like 1 - 2 Rescue Energy, some Revive and/or Flower Shop Lady. This will ensure that you keep the flow of Mew Prime going when KO-ing multiple Gothitelle or an attempt of Outrage on Mew Prime puts you out of the lock and Revive can do its work.
I consider this tech a near-seamless addition to your list if it is not very tight. Each and every one of the tech Pokemon use energy congruent to the deck's norm, i.e. Relicanth and Mew Prime can use Fire energy to serve their purposes. Being basic Pokemon makes them easy to retrieve from the deck and do their work when they are needed. Being basic Pokemon also allows them to be assembled quickly, and gives way to a high probability of a surprise drop, huge when it comes to the psychological factor. Opponents will find it hard to prepare for them and you can wreck the board while they try hard to deal with this new development.
The good news for people already running dragging techs like Bellsprout against Ross' deck is that Relicanth allows you to multiply your tech by 2. Use Prehistoric Wisdom to send the dragger to the Lost Zone, and now the 2 Mew Prime can pull that weight, giving you 2 tries in case their Reuniclus/Vileplume escapes to the bench on your first attempt and you get KO-ed. Moreover, Mew Prime has slightly better stats at certain areas than the most popular colourless energy compatible draggers. Mew Prime has more hp to last a beating than Bellsprout if Reuniclus/Vileplume retreats successfully. Mew Prime also costs nothing to retreat, unlike the 2 retreat cost Carnivine, allowing you to head back to the bench immediately without delay, and lash out at your opponent with a Blue Flare for knock out on Reuniclus/Vileplume. So this tech covers more than one base for a bad matchup.
The only problem is that Relicanth has pretty high retreat cost for a mere basic pokemon tech, so do take care of making an escape route for it just before you send Mew Prime out for action the very next turn. On the plus side, Relicanth makes for a very universal consistency booster, ironic for a tech, which characteristically tends to reduce a deck's consistency once added.
Needless to say, take it for a spin in a heavy Gothitelle metagame, or a metagame with a few really good Gothitelle players you are certain to meet if you do go far. A heavy Gothitelle metagame means more players are into the deck, and they can discuss and improve one another's Gothitelle game. Expect some competency in using those decks, so do not expect to run away by killing all their Gothita/Gothorita by outspeeding them. Good lists will be built, and expect a full set up in games, then unleash your tech and go crazy on them. An addition of 2 - 3 cards gives you a wonderful time against a large part of the field: what's not to like?
2 - 3 spaces for a tech is alot for this format, which is lacking good search and draw options compared to other formats. A Gothitelle-poor metagame is definitely not worth the space for these techs, so needless to say, drop it then.
I hope I've helped. I shared this information because I am testing it out myself, for my metagame is Gothitelle heavy. If some kind souls using Typhlosion/Reshiram like me are willing to give it a go and test it out for me, do keep me posted on the results, so that we can share our findings. So far it has worked well for me in preliminary testing. Thank you in advance. Cheers.
THIS POST HAS RECEIVED GURU POINTS! ( click here to discover why ) - GuRu SQuaD
How the tech should work:
Firstly, wait for the Gothitelle Lock to be up. This means that you should see at least 1 Reuniclus and 1 Gothitelle on the board. The active Gothitelle should be able to swing for some damage at least. The trap is now been set. You aim to nab a kill on that Gothitelle that your opponent has invested so much energy towards. A kill on that Pokemon would mean a huge resource set back for your opponent, not to mention a potential break from trainer lock.
Prepare a Pokemon Collector to grab 2 Mew Primes/1 Relicanth/1 Reshiram, whichever you do not possess in your hand already. If you do have a Relicanth or Reshiram in hand, keep the Pokemon Collector for later. It would make for more potent psychological warfare if you drop Mew Prime at the very last moment. Moreover, if they do see what is indeed coming, they would prepare for it by dropping their efforts on an active Gothitelle, and charge up a new one. Do remember that Mew will sustain a one hit knock out even if madkinesis hits for an entry-level 30 damage. Another way they can stall you out is to gust up benched Typhlosion Primes with Pokemon Catcher and try to kill it off before you are able to power Mew Prime up in one go.
Use Relicanth's "Prehistoric Wisdom" to send a Reshiram in hand to the Lost Zone. In the meantime, also prepare for yourself a means of retreat, for you would need it right off the bat the next turn.
Bench a Mew Prime, retreat, and power Mew up like you would a Reshiram. use Mew Prime's Lost Link to emulate Blue Flare for a 240 damage. They should be caught off guard. If you have another Mew Prime, drop it onto the board once more, power it up like you would a Reshiram, and hit again. 2 Mew Primes should be able to sweep 4 Gothitelle most of the time, which is more than enough. Use Pokemon Catcher to hunt them down if they attempt to hide in the bench.
Why 4 Gothitelle? This is because once the very first one is down, they should be caught unaware. Even if it is indeed best of 4, expending so many resources on one Gothitelle, a must against a 130 hp Reshiram, would not give them much room to power up the next one, leaving the second Gothitelle to be a free kill. The 3rd one can be charged up by smart players with the 2nd one being a sacrificial wall in active position to avoid Pokemon Catcher shenanigans, but is KO-ed by your 2nd Mew Prime. What will happen to the 4th one is what happened to the 2nd Gothitelle: insufficient time to charge energy up for a kill on Mew.
Ways smart opponents can play around you and how you can deal with them:
There are 2 ways. The first way is for them to attack your Mew with a damaged Reshiram/Zekrom via Reuniclus' Damage Swap ability, using Outrage, instead of walling with one more Gothitelle. This allows them to preserve Gothitelle for later fights when the Mew line is down. You can simply use Pokemon Catcher with PlusPower to bring down benched Gothitelle.
Try your very best not to bench a 2nd Mew Prime until it is needed once more. This is because it is possible that they would use Pokemon Catcher to gust your 2nd Mew Prime from the bench and hit it, allowing you to only kill 2 Gothitelle. If you let your usual Reshirams run the field, you can clear it till you force them to lock you with a 3rd Gothitelle, in which the 2nd Mew Prime's services are required.
The second way in which they would try to foil you is to simply load up their Gothitelles with just enough energy to do Madkinesis, then move on to power up other Gothitelle. A balanced field of Gothitelles only allow your Mew Primes to kill 2 Gothitelle. The answer to this is pretty easy. From the get go, apply strong pressure upon their board and take prizes off Gothita and Gothorita. This will limit the eventual number of Gothitelle they can have on the board for the game. A knock out on 2 Gothita/Gothorita is enough to seal the game for them. Even a knock out on 1 Gothita/Gothorita will put plenty of pressure on them, perhaps enough to run them into an energy drought if they overextend and focus more on developing Pokemon lines over their energy supply.
Why I added this quantity of techs and in what situation you can tweak this quantity:
The reason why I included an option for a second Mew is for heavy Gothitelle metagames, where Gothitelle is rampant. Sometimes, when you do have to run a gauntlet, a Mew Prime will be prized and you cannot follow up with the psychic Pokemon KO exchange satisfactorily. One Relicanth is only ever needed in the game, so I only recommend one as opposed to the often multiple-times used Mew, for you should be able to nab early prizes and have a fair chance of grabbing one Relicanth. Getting the 2nd Mew prized is a liability, for one alone does not necessarily give you the game, unlike Relicanth.
I would suggest you save space and run 1 Mew only if you have very potent recovery options like 1 - 2 Rescue Energy, some Revive and/or Flower Shop Lady. This will ensure that you keep the flow of Mew Prime going when KO-ing multiple Gothitelle or an attempt of Outrage on Mew Prime puts you out of the lock and Revive can do its work.
Why you should run this tech:
I consider this tech a near-seamless addition to your list if it is not very tight. Each and every one of the tech Pokemon use energy congruent to the deck's norm, i.e. Relicanth and Mew Prime can use Fire energy to serve their purposes. Being basic Pokemon makes them easy to retrieve from the deck and do their work when they are needed. Being basic Pokemon also allows them to be assembled quickly, and gives way to a high probability of a surprise drop, huge when it comes to the psychological factor. Opponents will find it hard to prepare for them and you can wreck the board while they try hard to deal with this new development.
The good news for people already running dragging techs like Bellsprout against Ross' deck is that Relicanth allows you to multiply your tech by 2. Use Prehistoric Wisdom to send the dragger to the Lost Zone, and now the 2 Mew Prime can pull that weight, giving you 2 tries in case their Reuniclus/Vileplume escapes to the bench on your first attempt and you get KO-ed. Moreover, Mew Prime has slightly better stats at certain areas than the most popular colourless energy compatible draggers. Mew Prime has more hp to last a beating than Bellsprout if Reuniclus/Vileplume retreats successfully. Mew Prime also costs nothing to retreat, unlike the 2 retreat cost Carnivine, allowing you to head back to the bench immediately without delay, and lash out at your opponent with a Blue Flare for knock out on Reuniclus/Vileplume. So this tech covers more than one base for a bad matchup.
The only problem is that Relicanth has pretty high retreat cost for a mere basic pokemon tech, so do take care of making an escape route for it just before you send Mew Prime out for action the very next turn. On the plus side, Relicanth makes for a very universal consistency booster, ironic for a tech, which characteristically tends to reduce a deck's consistency once added.
When to run it and not run it:
Needless to say, take it for a spin in a heavy Gothitelle metagame, or a metagame with a few really good Gothitelle players you are certain to meet if you do go far. A heavy Gothitelle metagame means more players are into the deck, and they can discuss and improve one another's Gothitelle game. Expect some competency in using those decks, so do not expect to run away by killing all their Gothita/Gothorita by outspeeding them. Good lists will be built, and expect a full set up in games, then unleash your tech and go crazy on them. An addition of 2 - 3 cards gives you a wonderful time against a large part of the field: what's not to like?
2 - 3 spaces for a tech is alot for this format, which is lacking good search and draw options compared to other formats. A Gothitelle-poor metagame is definitely not worth the space for these techs, so needless to say, drop it then.
I hope I've helped. I shared this information because I am testing it out myself, for my metagame is Gothitelle heavy. If some kind souls using Typhlosion/Reshiram like me are willing to give it a go and test it out for me, do keep me posted on the results, so that we can share our findings. So far it has worked well for me in preliminary testing. Thank you in advance. Cheers.
THIS POST HAS RECEIVED GURU POINTS! ( click here to discover why ) - GuRu SQuaD
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