I Double Theme Decks: Improving Through Double-Decking

[MegaVelocibot]

Nice post. I just saw this and it is one of the first things I tell newer players when they come up to me wanting to buy their first Theme deck or make their theme deck better. I always go over the Double Decking strategy for making the deck more playable.

I will be passing along a link to this article on my handouts as your work has put into writing that which is contained in many emails to Poke Parents...lol

Well done, sir!

Patrick McKee
Tomball Texas Pokemon League

Sure thing, and I'm glad I can be a reservoir of such information! If you've had any other ideas for double-deck variants, other than the ones I've listed, you're more than welcome to add them here.

 

[Carvanha]

Oh...Very nice Idea. I like the Power Play idea, and because I already Collected a few good cards, I may be able to whip up the small amount of money I have into a decent deck! I also really Like krook, so I like the idea in general...

Just an Idea - How would 2 of the BW Krooks work with the Deck made from 2?

 

[MegaVelocibot]

Oh...Very nice Idea. I like the Power Play idea, and because I already Collected a few good cards, I may be able to whip up the small amount of money I have into a decent deck! I also really Like krook, so I like the idea in general...

Just an Idea - How would 2 of the BW Krooks work with the Deck made from 2?

Short answer: The two Krookodile try to stop the opponent from attacking in different ways, but do not get in the way of each other; other than adding Double Colorless Energy to help, there are little to no other changes you have to make in order to use both in the deck.

Long answer: BW Krookodile would work well with the denial theme, but it would much prefer the addition of Double Colorless Energy to turn its attack into needing one and three Energy cards, respectively. It would also appreciate something that could damage Benched Pokemon, in order to assure its second attack always does 100, regardless of what the opponent sends out.

The problem Krookodile experiences is that its Stage 2 cards both try to stop the opponent's Active Pokemon from attacking, but in two different ways. Krookodile BW tries to prevent your opponent from attacking by denying them access to an attack (either the only one they have, or usually the one with the least Energy). This usually forces the opponent to build up their Pokemon with more and more Energy, either on their Active or Benched Pokemon, making them more resistant to the coin-flip Black Eyes means of removing Energy from the active. If need be, the opponent can sometimes retreat or evolve out of the Torment effect.

While Energy denial can be more favorable, it also ends up much more flippy, and also fails to deeply effect Pokemon that use little to no Energy (Donphan Prime, Yanmega Prime, Kingdra Prime, Simisear, etc.). It also shares a problem with Torment's effect, in that retreating (consider 0 Retreat Cost) leaves them with a new Active ready to attack. Take a look at what some sites have to say about Crushing Hammer, then consider that Black Eyes is not only limited to the Active Pokemon but also part of getting a Stage 2 Pokemon into play.

(If you do manage to add Double Colorless Energy, consider adding Cinccino BW as well, who can do quite a bit of damage off of it.)

 

[Carvanha]

Oh, Thanks for the answer. I'll still have plenty Cash(about $20) after my little 2-Deck Buying, so I'll be able to afford some stuff like the DCE.
I'll work on a list For a Krook Disruption in my spare time, and I'll see how it goes.

 

[MegaVelocibot]

Oh, Thanks for the answer. I'll still have plenty Cash(about $20) after my little 2-Deck Buying, so I'll be able to afford some stuff like the DCE.
I'll work on a list For a Krook Disruption in my spare time, and I'll see how it goes.

Sounds great! Power Play really doesn't mesh with my personal play style, and I would recommend two Red Frenzy over it, but if you're happy with what the Pokemon in it are, by all means, go for it. After all, that's what this thread is all about, making theme decks more playable.

On that note, I had an interesting case today of combining cards from two different theme decks (as well as miscellaneous booster pack cards) into a deck today, for someone who had taken all their decks apart and planned to make a new one before League, but simply didn't have the time to do so. Within 10 to 15 minutes, I had them working with the following combination of Green Tornado, Recon, and a few spare cards. While this isn't eaxctly doubling theme decks, I thought it would be an interesting case study to note, seeing how the contents of two different theme decks can work well together.

Pokemon: 22
1x Serperior (ability) [from booster]
2x Serperior
3x Servine
4x Snivy
2x Sawsbuck BW [1 from booster]
2x Deerling BW
2x Deerling EP [from booster]
2x Tangrowth
4x Tangela

Trainers: 22
2x Professor Juniper
2x Professor Elm's Training Method
2x Sage's Training
2x Interviewer's Questions
1x Copycat
4x Pokemon Communication
4x Pluspower [from booster]
2x Revive
1x Energy Retrieval
2x Energy Returner

Energy: 16
16x Grass Energy

Strategy: Tangela is the preferred starter, as it can get Grass Energy from your deck into play even quicker. Preferred early game attacker is Serperior (theme deck), who can heal all the Pokemon in this deck by 20 with its second attack. Combine it with ability Serperior, and you can easily heal 40 from each of your Pokemon by the time your next turn arrives, promoting strategic retreating. Ability Serperior can also move a large amount of Energy to Tangrowth, to prepare for a powerful Grind (but be careful of things that can affect your Benched Pokemon). Sawsbuck also takes advantage of having a large number of Grass Energy in play, and only needs 1 Energy in order to do so.

 

[MegaVelocibot]

As per a question asked in a private message, the main post has been updated to explain what a #-#-# line of Pokemon means. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused to players new to this form of notation!

Another note: for those who have had poor luck finding the Ability versions of Stage 2 Pokemon featured in the Black & White theme decks (Serperior, Emboar, and Samurott), there will be tins out this Fall that have a reprinted promo version of these cards in addition to some sort of booster pack content.

 

[bullados]

I know that this is kinda outside the scope of this post, but if you combine a Green Frenzy and a Toxic Tricks deck, you get something that looks pretty darn decent. You've got a 4-4-3 Scolipede, where two of them are the Double Poison one and the third has 150HP, and neither needs more than 2 Psychic Energy. You've got a 4-3-2 Serperior line, which is quite powerful and is a nice healing machine. I do kinda wish that there was a Simi in the decks, as those Pans look awfully lonely. Basically, you can create a nice tank/status deck around these. Plus, you've got the Trainers to consider...

4 Comm
2 June
2 Revive
2 Cheren
2 Great Ball
3 Potion

I'm beasting PTCGO right now with a Psychic deck based on this idea.

Also, as far as your initial deck, I think that a 4-4 Simisear is superior to a 4-2 Darmanitan. But that's just me...

 

[MegaVelocibot]

I know that this is kinda outside the scope of this post, but if you combine a Green Frenzy and a Toxic Tricks deck, you get something that looks pretty darn decent. You've got a 4-4-3 Scolipede, where two of them are the Double Poison one and the third has 150HP, and neither needs more than 2 Psychic Energy. You've got a 4-3-2 Serperior line, which is quite powerful and is a nice healing machine. I do kinda wish that there was a Simi in the decks, as those Pans look awfully lonely. Basically, you can create a nice tank/status deck around these. Plus, you've got the Trainers to consider...

4 Comm
2 June
2 Revive
2 Cheren
2 Great Ball
3 Potion

I'm beasting PTCGO right now with a Psychic deck based on this idea.

Also, as far as your initial deck, I think that a 4-4 Simisear is superior to a 4-2 Darmanitan. But that's just me...

Which works rather well indeed! I've nothing against putting together two different theme decks, and I encourage such creativity.

 

[braingoblin]

This is a fantastic thread, I was so caught up in trying to get back into the game by buying the perfect single cards, I didn't think of such a simple concept. Have you thought how to effectively make Royal guard work with this?
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[bullados]

Royal Guard? Just being simplesimplesimple here...

Pokemon (22):
4-4-4 Nidoking
4-4-2 Machamp

Trainers (22):
2 PONT
4 PETM
4 Twins
4 PokeBall
4 Interviewer's Questions
4 Life Herb

Energy (16):
16 Fighting

Big beatstick deck. Lots of search in here, lots of deck thinning, and some healing ability. Be careful around Psychic decks. Otherwise, it's set up big boom, lower big boom. Marowak doesn't work unless you've got a Stadium, which this deck doesn't. If you could find 4 not-useless Stadium cards, I'd replace the Machamp line and 2 Energy with the Marowak and the 4 Stadiums. 2 for 80 is pretty decent...

 

[MegaVelocibot]

This is a fantastic thread, I was so caught up in trying to get back into the game by buying the perfect single cards, I didn't think of such a simple concept. Have you thought how to effectively make Royal guard work with this?
Posted with Mobile style...

The Unleashed and Triumphant are quite bad, in my opinion. The main reason I avoided posting such double-decks is that I wasn't confident I could justify anyone investing in one copy of those theme decks, let alone two. With that said... Despite what I did with Blue Assault, I really, really, REALLY don't like giving a player a deck that has very low chances of getting a Basic Pokémon, and giving their opponent one or more free cards.

Pokémon: 26
4× Nidoking
4× Nidorino
4× Nidoran ♂
2× Machamp
3× Machoke
3× Machop
3× Marowak
3× Cubone

Trainers: 18
4× Interviewer's Questions
4× Poké Ball
4× Professor Elm's Training Method
2× Professor Oak's New Theory
4× Twins

Energy: 16
16× Fighting Energy

The lack of Colorless Pokémon or good Colorless-only attacks hurts the ability to add support lines. In comparison to the other list, if you don't mind losing the Life Herbs and slightly trimming your Machamp line in return for a net two extra Basic Pokémon, Marowak can manage with 2 Energy for 2 coin flips, 60x heads. Also, as mentioned, a Stadium card such as Ruins of Alph can overcome Fighting resistance (found on many of the Pokemon that have Flying-type in the video games) as well as provide a boost for Marowak's second attack.

 

[MegaVelocibot]

Alternating Currents (Double-Escavalier theme deck)

Pokémon: 21
2x Eelektross
4x Eelektrik
4x Tynamo
2x Zebstrika
3x Blitzle
2x Druddigon
4x Audino

Trainers: 23
4x Bianca
2x N
4x Energy Search
4x Great Ball
4x Pokemon Communication
3x Switch
2x Super Rod

Energy: 16
12x Lightning Energy
4x Metal Energy

Strategy: Druiddigon and Audino both give strong Basic Pokemon to set up Benched Pokemon behind, as well as providing Pokemon with decent attacks to use in the mid-game. The Metal Energy are reserved for Zebstrika; a tails on its Shock Bolt discards all Lightning Energy attached to it, so a Metal Energy would leave it still able to retreat or use Quick Attack. Eelektross can also attack for the same damage and attack cost of Zebstrika, although it is a Stage 2 that does 10 damage to itself in the process of using its attack. Eelektrik can take advantage of Lightning Energy discarded by that attack or from retreating, although it might be more Energy-efficient to retreat things such as Eelektross via Switch.

 

[MegaVelocibot]

Howdy! I'm still around, and I have the other Noble Victory double theme decklist up. Someone sent me a PM asking if I had forgotten about it; no, just been busy. Might also do double theme decklists for the Prime Challenge boxes as well, as I had a few requests for it.

Bug Out
Pokemon: 22
4 Accelgor
4 Shelmet
2 Leavanny
3 Swadloon
3 Sewaddle
3 Crustle
3 Dwebble

Trainers: 24
4x Cheren
4x Potion
2x N
4x Energy Search
4x Great Ball
4x Pokemon Communication
2x Super Rod

Energy: 14
14x Grass Energy

Strategy: Shelmet is not an ideal starter. Sadly, nothing in the deck is. Still, Switch can get you out of some bad situations. Accelgor can attack for only one Energy; after Slashing Strike, switch to a different Accelgor (or retreat and use Switch to go back to the first Accelgor; the effect of Slashing Strike goes away when it is Benched). Crustle fills in as another attacker, while Leavanny protects you from your shared Fire Weakness. Including the Leavanny from Emerging Powers might work in your favor: for one Colorless Energy, it can help evolve your Pokemon even faster than your deck already goes, with powerful draw and search cards like Cheren, Great Ball, and Pokemon Communication!

 

[MegaVelocibot]

Fiery Explosion (Double Explosive Edge)

Pokémon: 26
4× Reshiram
2× Chandelure
4× Lampent
4× Litwick
2× Persian
2× Meowth
4× Arcanine
4× Growlithe

Trainers: 18
4× Cheren
3× Cilan
3× Energy Retrieval
4× Pokémon Communication
2× Heavy Ball
2× Skyarrow Bridge

Energy: 16
16× Fire Energy

Although containing very powerful Pokémon, this deck finds itself unfortunately lacking in the Energy-acceleration and card-searching departments. No Pokémon remaining in this deck can take advantage of Heavy Ball, other than Arcanine, thus the lower count.

Ball Lightning (Double Voltage Vortex)

Pokémon: 24
4x Zekrom
2x Luxray
4x Luxio
4x Shinx
4x Raichu
4x Pikachu
2x Emolga

Trainers: 20
4x Professor Juniper
4x Cilan
4x Pokémon Communication
2x Level Ball
4x Potion
2x Pokémon Center

16x Lightning Energy

This deck, on the other hand, works great with its primary line and big Basic Pokémon. Luxray's first attack charges Zekrom's Outrage, or can have its damage removed by Pokémon Center. Damage is further controlled by Potion, if need be. Cilan thins out the deck, and it is best to attach all Energy that you can before using Professor Juniper to discard it.

 

[Hyo888]

i have an awesome idea for a deck based on noble victories! obviously,both decks complete eachother...at least,Karrablast and Shelmet does! then why not mix both decks? it could be a little expensive,butit would be even greater if you could have 2 of each deck! the deck list would be something like this:

Pokemon: 24
4 Karrablast
4 Escavalier
4 Shelmet
4 Acelgor
4 Petlil
2 Liligant
2 Drudingon

Trainers: 18
4 potion
4 switch
4 energy search
4 pokemon comunication
2 cherren


energy: 18
10 grass energy
8 metal energy

as far as strategy goes,i would use the rotation of this deck,with the 0 retreat cost of acelgor,Lilligant's whirlind move and the switch cards. with this,i would keep my pokemon in play and a lilligant on the bench,untill it got hit a lot,and then switch to lilligant,heal all it's hp and put it back on battle with whirlind. the only downside of this deck could be it's vulnerability to fire.

 

[SLOW DECK]

Here is my spin combine 4 decks, if I take 2 Voltage Vortex and 2 Furious Knights Themedecks. You have a competent Zekrom Eel deck.

4 Zekerom
2 Eelektross
4 Eelektrik
4 Tynamo
2 Druddigon
1 Emolga


12 Supporters
4 Juniper
4 Bianca
2 N
2 Cilan


4 Level Ball
4 Communication
4 Great Ball
2 Switch
2 Super Rod

15 Lightning

 

[MegaVelocibot]

The problem with purchasing four theme decks is that, for most people, this is an investment of ~$60 USD. That same amount of money could be put towards building a more stable deck via the purchasing of singles. While it is unarguable that buying four theme decks allows access to multiple copies of useful cards, there tends to be a rather severe diminishing returns effect associated with such a large purchase, for a new player.

Admittedly, SLOW DECK, the deck is good, but could be made for cheaper by just purchasing a few singles rather than theme decks for those components. This isn't an option for everyone, but it is a cheaper option for those to which it is available.

A similar, albeit not as effective, deck can be made with only one copy of those decks.

Perpetual Energy (Furious Knights + Voltage Vortex)

Pokémon: 19
2x Zekrom
1x Eelektross
2x Eelektrik
3x Tynamo
1x Luxray
2x Luxio
4x Shinx
2x Emolga (NVI)
2x Audino

Trainers: 26
2x Bianca
2x Cilan
1x N
2x Professor Juniper
4x Energy Search
2x Great Ball
1x Level Ball
4x Pokémon Communication
2x Potion
2x Super Rod
2x Switch
2x Pokémon Center

Energy: 15
15x Lightning

The only major weakness of this deck is the poor draw power. If you don't run into one of your Supporters, to thin cards out of your deck or to just draw cards, things go downhill in a hurry. When this works, however, it has Energy acceleration (via Eelektrik), HP recovery, strong hitters, and easy-to-set-up backup Pokémon.

 

[Hyo888]

Exactly. as i said,it could be a littlçe bit expensive,but if you could,it would be great. you could mix only one of each fast daze and furious knights,wich would go something like this:

Pokemon: 18
4 Shelmet
2 Acelgor
4 Karrablast
2 Escavalier
1 Drudigon
2 Audino
2 Petlil
1 Lilligant


Trainers: 26
4 Potion
2 Switch
4 Energy Search
4 Pokemon comunication
2 Cheren
2 Bianca
4 Super Rod
4 Great Ball

Energy: 16
10 Grass
6 Metal

little has changed abbout strategy,it will only be a little bit more dificult to exacute it. this deck is really okay,because aside from shelmet,evry basic is a good starter.

---------- Post added 02/22/2012 at 09:26 AM ----------

just for the record,i like to call this deck (either 1x1 noble victores or 2x2 noble victories) "Fast and Furious"

 

[bullados]

Shelmet is a good starter if you get Karrablast early. Likewise, Karrablast is a good starter if you get Shelmet early.

 

[Hyo888]

Shelmet is a good starter if you get Karrablast early. Likewise, Karrablast is a good starter if you get Shelmet early.

yeah,but only if you have Karrablast early.then you can put acelgor right away. but Karrablast allone can do a lot more damage then shelmet,Petilil can survive using absorb,Drudigon is a MONSTER and Audino can survive too with 80 hp. only shelmet is..."standard",causing only 10 damage for 1 eergy. it's not bad,just pretty avarage.