Rafael Fernandes Lopes
New Member
Hi,
I have a question (that has been discussed a lot in several forums) about the ruling of Greninja XY Water Shuriken ability. When a Greninja uses the water shuriken, that Greninja cannot use that ability anymore. When it evolves to Greninja BREAK, however, as I can see, it is a new pokemon in the field (further with a new name) and the water shuriken ability could be used again. To reinforce my arguments, let's analyze some parts of the compendium:
1. Can I use Heavy Ball to search for Chesnaught BREAK since it has the retreat cost of Chesnaught?
A. No. While not in play, the card has no Retreat Cost. (BREAKthrough FAQ; Nov 19, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
2. Since a BREAK Pokemon "retains the attacks, Abilities, Weakness, Resistance, and Retreat Cost of its previous Evolution" can a Mew EX with the "Versatile" Ability use an attack of the Pokemon that the BREAK Pokemon evolved from (providing it meets energy requirements, etc.)?
A. Yes, it can. The underlying Pokemon's attacks are part of the BREAK Evolved Pokemon and are therefore able to be copied by Versatile. (Dec 3, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
3. Does a BREAK Evolved Pokemon such as Raichu BREAK or Marowak BREAK still have access to the type changes from Flareon's "Flare Effect" ability or Vaporeon's "Aqua Effect" ability or Jolteon's "Electric Effect" ability? Or do those Abilities no longer apply after the Stage 1 Pokemon becomes a BREAK Evolved Pokemon?
A. Pokemon BREAK are their own classification, so they are not considered Stage 1 Pokemon. Although BREAK Evolved Pokemon share many of the traits of the Pokemon it evolves from, it is no longer a Pokemon of the previous stage it evolved from. Since it is no longer a Stage 1 Pokemon, the Flareon's/Vaporeon's/Jolteon's abilities do not apply. (Oct 29, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
From those ruling of the compendium, I can deduce the following:
1. The BREAK evolutions are not "complete" evolutions, which means it needs the other info from a pokémon in play to be "complete"
2. Since Mew EX can copy all the attacks of the BREAK evolved pokémon, it means that the new pokémon consists of a new Greninja BREAK pokémon with two abilities (water shuriken and giant water shuriken) and the attack Misty Slash. As I can see, the Greninja BREAK inherits the attack and ability, but it is not the previous pokémon.
3. The new name makes the Greninja BREAK a new evolution stage, which means that the stage 2 greninja does not exist anymore.
So... Based on the described arguments, I believe that the ability can be used again...
Let's discuss!
Regards,
Rafael
I have a question (that has been discussed a lot in several forums) about the ruling of Greninja XY Water Shuriken ability. When a Greninja uses the water shuriken, that Greninja cannot use that ability anymore. When it evolves to Greninja BREAK, however, as I can see, it is a new pokemon in the field (further with a new name) and the water shuriken ability could be used again. To reinforce my arguments, let's analyze some parts of the compendium:
1. Can I use Heavy Ball to search for Chesnaught BREAK since it has the retreat cost of Chesnaught?
A. No. While not in play, the card has no Retreat Cost. (BREAKthrough FAQ; Nov 19, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
2. Since a BREAK Pokemon "retains the attacks, Abilities, Weakness, Resistance, and Retreat Cost of its previous Evolution" can a Mew EX with the "Versatile" Ability use an attack of the Pokemon that the BREAK Pokemon evolved from (providing it meets energy requirements, etc.)?
A. Yes, it can. The underlying Pokemon's attacks are part of the BREAK Evolved Pokemon and are therefore able to be copied by Versatile. (Dec 3, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
3. Does a BREAK Evolved Pokemon such as Raichu BREAK or Marowak BREAK still have access to the type changes from Flareon's "Flare Effect" ability or Vaporeon's "Aqua Effect" ability or Jolteon's "Electric Effect" ability? Or do those Abilities no longer apply after the Stage 1 Pokemon becomes a BREAK Evolved Pokemon?
A. Pokemon BREAK are their own classification, so they are not considered Stage 1 Pokemon. Although BREAK Evolved Pokemon share many of the traits of the Pokemon it evolves from, it is no longer a Pokemon of the previous stage it evolved from. Since it is no longer a Stage 1 Pokemon, the Flareon's/Vaporeon's/Jolteon's abilities do not apply. (Oct 29, 2015 TPCi Rules Team)
From those ruling of the compendium, I can deduce the following:
1. The BREAK evolutions are not "complete" evolutions, which means it needs the other info from a pokémon in play to be "complete"
2. Since Mew EX can copy all the attacks of the BREAK evolved pokémon, it means that the new pokémon consists of a new Greninja BREAK pokémon with two abilities (water shuriken and giant water shuriken) and the attack Misty Slash. As I can see, the Greninja BREAK inherits the attack and ability, but it is not the previous pokémon.
3. The new name makes the Greninja BREAK a new evolution stage, which means that the stage 2 greninja does not exist anymore.
So... Based on the described arguments, I believe that the ability can be used again...
Let's discuss!
Regards,
Rafael
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