Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Interesting little chart...

Status
Not open for further replies.
SD PokéMom said:
Actually, the point is that Pokémon's sales didn't make ANY IMPACT on sales of M:tG during the WotC era...

'mom
Click to expand...

What i have in mind is this, You mean...
Pokémon was actually bringing in players who previously don't play TCG/CCGs, into Pokémon..
And that players that play Pokémon weren't generally Magic players...
So Pokémon was a stepping stone for WotC or any companies to new and different card game players..

Putting in simple words...
Magic and Pokémon were targeted at different audiences... hence so that Pokémon sales did not affect Magic at the point of WotC's golden age....
Is magic really still earning much $$? like VS, YGH and many games have entered the fray...
I doubt the figures a bit...

Thats my $0.02...
 
Pokémon brought new players to the TCG, yes...but those players did NOT make the 'transition' from Pokémon to Magic, as HOPED/PLANNED...even after 15+ was excluded from OP.
PokePop said:
I don't think there is more to the slide.
2005 isn't over yet, so there's no final data for it.
Click to expand...
I _know_ there's no final 2005 sales data; the 'rest of the slide' I'd LIKE to see is the bottom, after the "To date, Magic has achieved 96% of total Pokémon sales" line. There's clearly more there...

JMHO,
'mom
 
Last edited:
SD PokéMom said:
Pokémon brought new players to the TCG, yes...but those players did NOT make the 'transition' from Pokémon to Magic, as HOPED/PLANNED...even after 15+ was excluded from OP.

I _know_ there's no final 2005 sales data; the 'rest of the slide' I'd LIKE to see is the bottom, after the "To date, Magic has achieved 96% of total Pokémon sales" line. There's clearly more there...

JMHO,
'mom
Click to expand...

I guess all along, Pokémon is a good stepping stone or basic TCG anyone need to learn the basics of a Card game...
 
Who cares about these numbers? We know other Pokemon players exist. No need to compare it to another game. This isn't a contest with Magic. Just keep playing, leave them alone.
 
Ah but the numbers are interesting..

volatility is bad if you are unresponsive and get caught out.

equally a lack of growth can be viewed as good or bad depending upon what story you want to tell.

its interesting that Wotc chose to compare magic against pokemon. I wish I knew what was actually said when they had that slide up.

ultimately the numbers tell you everything about where you have been and nothing about where the brands are going.

I do agree that this isn't a contest with magic. There is room for more than one or even two trading card games in the market.
 
sdp said:
I think WotC did a great job, and the card game was already going way down, they didn't have to pull all of this "crazy hiddem maneouvers", but nice theories, i'm not saying WotC were saints but even with WotC doing everything they could the sales would still have lowered just as drastically.

But we should go back into the whole PKMN rising again in sales, i'm glad of this, with announcements like the Pokemon Center now becoming Nintendo World ;(, i'm glad they don't want to just throw it away, I doubt we'll rise to magic popularity anytime but if we keep rising and are just right under, that will be more than enough to keep the game going.
Click to expand...


I think what WOTC had in mine was with MTG pretty much guranteed income for years to come they decided to do what they did with the 15+ and try to end Pokemon so they could preserve what MTG they had left and trying also to make Pokemon players into MTG players by doing so. I know Nintendo and PokemonUSA aint dumb when it comes to business like that and knew what was going on so they just pulled the game away from WOTC and let someone handle it who could handle it smart.


Looking at the chart I could have to agree with the Pokemon side of the chart of how things went, I pretty much followed the TCG and all from 1998 up to now and thats how I would of drawn the lines.
But the I think MTG line is a little off, I dont follow it as much but I know this much that MTG has been declining a good bit since 2002 and not rising like they got on the charts, and really if the entire MTG line is true which I dont think it is, it shows MTG aint gonna be here forever, give it maybe 4-5 years tops.
 
Last edited:
Well, a drop was inevitable.
The question is how much of a drop.
Look at the Gameboy side of Pokemon.
I have kids who were in the 5-10 age group at the time, 7-12 now, and it is very very common for kids in that age group to still be playing the Gameboy versions of the Pokemon games, but also to be fairly unaware that the card game is still going.
So, which side of the marketing equation fell off the wagon?
 
Once the kids get to jr. high or even before, many will stop just to not be made fun of/fit in, that is what most teenagers do, and that is also where most of the fanbase went.
 
sdp: And that explains why my tournaments have MUCH higher turnouts in the 11-14 and 15+ age group how? By that logic those should be the two smallest groups, with 10- dwarfing them.

To the buisness side of things, this is in our benefit. It shows that Pokemon is still a good source of buisness, and that it's sales are growing.
 
In my local scene and the areas around it and from what i've seen in many posts here, the highest is 15+ but that is just a huge range of players so its not fair to compare, after that its the 10- and the one with the least people is always 11-14 for obvious reasons.
 
It's an interesting bit of conjecture, isn't it? Ultimately you have to come back to the axiom that it it's easier to use something for what it is than to turn it into something it isn't. In the end, WoTC couldn't turn Pokemon into what they wanted because the game wouldn't. That and they were too busy answering my rulings questions to accomplish anything. I mean, if it hadn't been for the Suicune fiasco, who knows what could have transpired? :wink:
 
*rolleyes* It's always all about you, isn't it? =/

And sdp, I don't know where you are...but in Southern California, the -10 is consistently the smallest age group at premier events; 15+ is the largest, and 11-14 is somewhere between the two. Go back and look at the [attendance reports for states and you'll see that's true in the majority of areas...

'mom
 
Why would they be comparing M:TG to Pokemon instead of to say like VS or YU-Gi-Oh. Something tells me Wizards might be regretting the choice they made to just let Pokemon rot causing the drop in players. Watch in 05 or 06 as Pokemon is the same in sales as Magic if not more.:biggrin:
But looking at the chart causes much sorrow. When that large drop in sales and players occured, my area was part of it, and still nothing has resurfaced:frown:. But in a way the increace brings hope. With the way rewards are set up it would bring in not just in youger players but older players as well. It doesn't matter what you say about how Wizards didn't almost kill the game. The facts show it all. We should be happy that Nintendo got the license or Pokemon would be in the same position the Harry Potter TCG is. DEAD and forgotten. With Nintendo the sales sow that the increased OP and ability to run events has allowed this game perfect for the whole family to continue it's run.

Still there are some questions on my mind that will most likely go un-answered.
1. How come Wizards decided to just cut Pokemon loose when it was making them mmoney? They're a business, and businessses like making money.
2. When Wizards droped prize support for 15+ how did their plan backfire ? Why would they cut the 15+, since when Nintendo took the wheel, 15+ got full suprise support?

Just a few un answered questions.
 
CrimsonWarrior26 said:
Why would they be comparing M:TG to Pokemon instead of to say like VS or YU-Gi-Oh. Something tells me Wizards might be regretting the choice they made to just let Pokemon rot causing the drop in players. Watch in 05 or 06 as Pokemon is the same in sales as Magic if not more.:biggrin:
But looking at the chart causes much sorrow. When that large drop in sales and players occured, my area was part of it, and still nothing has resurfaced:frown:. But in a way the increace brings hope. With the way rewards are set up it would bring in not just in youger players but older players as well. It doesn't matter what you say about how Wizards didn't almost kill the game. The facts show it all. We should be happy that Nintendo got the license or Pokemon would be in the same position the Harry Potter TCG is. DEAD and forgotten. With Nintendo the sales sow that the increased OP and ability to run events has allowed this game perfect for the whole family to continue it's run.

Still there are some questions on my mind that will most likely go un-answered.
1. How come Wizards decided to just cut Pokemon loose when it was making them mmoney? They're a business, and businessses like making money.
2. When Wizards droped prize support for 15+ how did their plan backfire ? Why would they cut the 15+, since when Nintendo took the wheel, 15+ got full suprise support?

Just a few un answered questions.
Click to expand...

its like I said before, WOTC didnt cut Pokemon loose, but at the same time if PUI was to renew that contract with WOTC then I doubt there would be anything left of the game right now, its true the game was making them money but look at what WOTC was wanting to do with the game and what they did to it, WOTC's last year with pokemon pretty much saw no OP, no leagues, no tournaments, not much of anything, fact is WOTC just neglected the game alot, and the future of WOTC with what they were wanting to do with the game past the contract renewal didnt look too bright either, especially if no OP, prereleases, or nothign whatsoever was gonna be around to demo the new stuff wotc had in mind.

Fact is WOTC is too tied up in MTG, their whole darn company revolves around that game, they do whatever it takes to put any other players in any other game into MTG, and if WOTC made that chart accurate, then they seeing a mistake they made by not giving Pokemon more notice and actually doing something with it in its final year or 2. I still have a disbelief though the chart is accurate cause I dont think MTG is rising at all, I dont think it has risen in the last 3 years and if nothing else its declined alot in those 3 years, I mean dealers aint even carrying MTG anymore becuase it dont sell, some dealers is carrying very limited supplies of it mostly only new stuff, so I would dispute the chart some but thats just general of how pokemon and mtg is I dont thinks it precise.
 
I see yolur point Bullet how they'll do anyting to get MTG players. Of course they wanted the license for Duel Masters, because it'll bring in more MTG players because the games share a lot in common. And the the owning of Duel Masters makes sure MTG doesn't have any rival company with a game like MTG.
 
Not everything that Wotc did was good
not everything that wotc did was bad.

The DCI still represents the standard by which other OP systems are to be judged.
Reporter is so far ahead of TMS it is unbelievable.

PUI have a long way to go to catch up with the DCI. So much so that it is inevitable that PUI will make some mistakes too. So at some point in the future it is inevitable that a pundit will be able to write the following..

Not everything that PUI did was good.
Not everything that PUI did was bad.

So lets not start Wotc bashing.

The majority of card games fail. That failure has little to do with the quality of the game and everything to do with capturing the minds of the customers that form the potential market. Magic has achieved this as the graph shows.
 
Last edited:
Broken Lizard said:
As DMTM always said, 'the truth is out there'...
Click to expand...
Someone should really do a timeline on the "events" at that particular time.
Personally I think that Hasbro bought what they though was a cash cow just at the peak and then were disillusioned at the sliding numbers from a natural phenomenon. I also think they were the one's who didn't "get" 15+. Someone at the company saw it as (1) a little kids game and (2) The statistics showed the majority of the cards were not bought by people interested in OP. So they decided that OP wasn't essential for sales. They didn't understand that OP is a form of marketing. Dummies.
As far as corporate politics - many of you will remember that fateful night in NY at the ECSTS where rumor has it one of the MT's "spilled the beans" on a plot to dump the warehouses in case they lost the license. What an uproar that caused. I think the only warehouse dumping came at the Pokemon Appreciation event.
It'd be nice if the walls could speak (like the one that DMTM hides behind when lurking here). I doubt the truth will ever come out. Anyway - I don't think it was a deliberate killing - more like involuntary manslaughter. They low-balled the license offer because they saw declining sales, then OP almost died from neglect when they officially lost it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top