Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

International TOs and League Leaders would you do it again?

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ukpokemonpro

New Member
This is addressed specifically to International League Leaders and TOs and addresses a real problem I think we are facing.

Given the current poor level of support Internationally would you get involved with this game right now if you were not already?

Now step back a moment and really think.. You have no history of Pokemon OP and Leagues and you only remember the hype from a few years back. Pokemon doesn't really leap off the shelf in your store and there has been no advertising for years.

Now would you spend the time and effort needed to run a league?

Now let's say you were mug enough to run one what would you then think when your OP provider and PUI won't listen to your advce? What would you think when your league kits fail to turn up and what would you think when your OP promos stop?

Would you carry on or would you give up?

I am just wondering because PUI and our OP provider seem to be pursuing a retailer is best course and yet as a part time retailer myself I find myself not at all surprised that there has been no growth in UK leagues other than fan based leagues that have been started without help from PUI or the local OP provider. Indeed the only new league there has been was selling OP and league promos on ebay in one day auctions all with the full knowledge of our OP provider and PUI.

So the big question is what is there in OP and Leagues Internationally to attract anyone to run leagues and tournaments that haven't been running them already?

Personally I can't see anything and that may explain a lot about the state of the game outside the US.. if we can't grow it with retailers maybe it's time to go for the fan based approach?
 
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Nope.

Why would anyone want to argue with two organized play divisions (Poke USA and your local distributor) about a simple thing like making sure your league has the season ten kit?

Pokemon USA: Ask the distributor.
Distributor: Go ask Pokemon USA.

Distributors should not be in any position over Organized Play. They are a business and as such will always cut corners to generate sales. POP needs to place restrictions and requirements over OP... or someone who will remain nameless should be replaced as the International OP Manager. Let's get someone like Pete in there... it's amazing how much work that guy has done with PTOs compaired with it's former manager.
-Phil
 
Its realy hard not to draw the conclusion that OP is not taken seriously outside the USA.

- no advertising
- league materials late missing, or cancelled
- OP provider says its not up to them.
- no local expertise on rules or play.

.

It isn't too harsh to say that the local OP provider is MtG First, MtG Second, MtG Third. But then its not hard to see why: The only tcg outside the USA with serious support from a serious company seems to be MtG.

.

There is a demand for pokemon in the UK. A pokemon specific magazine sells 35000 copies per month. Thats probably 10,000 or more potential players rather than the 100 ish that we currently have in the UK.

If you really want to see just how many active players there are in the UK go to the rankings page on the OP website and enter UK and all ages. Last time I did that there were a grand total of 23 players in the UK with MyPokemon accounts.

I'm at a complete loss as to what to do. We run the majority of the large tournaments ourselves. (Thanks to all those who have helped with promos and badges). Our OP provider did run a tournament last year but all subsequent tournaments have been cancelled at short notice. Again I can't blame them. Why bother with Pokemon when the company doesn't seem serious. Doesn't it make more sense to stay with the tried and tested Magic? It's certainly what our OP provider is doing. Seems like its time for us to join them in MtG and give them some competition in the UK.

--------

Or the short answer NO
 
Of course Ian has raised a very valid point about the number of players with My Pokemon accounts. I suspect that if the application for the MP account was simplified then we would see a big jump in the number of ranked players! And although I love playing and arranging things for my players, if I was new to the game, then no I would probably not get deeply involved.
 
LOL .. yeah after all what do we know, how to grow our leagues, how to run successful fun tournaments, or, how to cancel them and not advertise the full details ;)
 
No
Nothing

Three more questions :
1 Is an international company serious when they're talking about worldwide business with only one office in the USA and nothing on the other Continents ?
2 Why would a distributor put money in a game that is not selling anymore while other products bring more money and need less investment ?
3 How many of the 'veterans', players, TO's, GL's involved for more than 2 years in the game in Europe are still active and still come on the boards ? Do you think that 1, 2 or 3 people in a country could have an influence in front of the distributor or PUI even if they represent 100 players ?

Harlan (do you remember ?) lives close to my shop and he comes to see me from time to time. Last week we were talking about the STS in NY ... and Team Europe ... and the influence of TE on the game in Europe.

And, ... I'm writing this on Thursday, 11:54 pm Belgian time.
A couple of month ago, at the same time, I was connected to the Wizards chat ...

Hi Mum, hi Sensei, hi BDS, hi guys, hi MT's ...
Go to sleep now, nothing to share with you anymore
 
Michel,

I wonder how much notice if any PUI will take of your reply? And yet given that you are not only a fan of the game but a retailer to boot they should be looking to you for feedback and what is that you can tell them?

1. That you would not be interested in their league and OP offering because Internationally it is not worth the hassle

2. That they don't appear serious about International marketing and OP

3. The the individual distributors have little incentive to invest in OP but lots of incentive to just take the money and run

4. That veteran players and TOs are no longer bothering with the game.

This Veteran Player, Retailer and TO can understand why they don't bother and why no retailers are rushing to sign up to the PUI Int' offering... the trouble is I doubt PUI will understand and I am not sure they even want to understand.

The message tho' is loud and clear if you want to run OP in the UK don't expect to see the promo support, if you want to run leagues don't expect the material to arrive on time and complete. If however you want to spend your time on the phone, begging, pleading and shouting for support then sign up. If you want to be ignored, sidelined and belittled by PUI then sign up.

Otherwise if you want a smooth easy to run league programe with support, if you want an easy to run OP programme with support.. well best find another game...
 
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my answer is NO!!


simply because

Pokemon USA: Ask the distributor.
Distributor: Go ask Pokemon USA.
Click to expand...
yeah that was what happen to my another prof friend when wotc is still taking over pokemon

- no advertising
- league materials late missing, or cancelled
- OP provider says its not up to them.
- no local expertise on rules or play.
Click to expand...
yeah no advertising,resulting only less than 15 ppl join the prerelease tournament or some other areas doesnt even know what the hell is pokemon league but the yugioh game in my country is advertising very often and whats the result? 200+ ppl join the tournament

materials late or whatsoever,delay our precious time

no judges at the prerelease tournament,WHY?

my previous prerelease tournament,the TO ask my the other prof and I "are u all wotc professor?" we answered yes and thought that he already knew we have already transfered then later he said "WOTC prof are not allowed to judge because now nintendo is taking over"

then later we were just listen to his blah blah blah... then that tournament doesnt have a judge,BUT when he was giving the prizes,he gave wotc promos which were from the package we recive last year and also #005 mudkip for the 1st prize(we wonder where the hell he got that ),that card werent suppose to give out in that tournament as it is clearly stated that only new booster packs for prizes :(


and 1 more thing,didnt nintendo says that he will co-operate with USA and asia be4 wotc take over,now look ! wats the result now?
 
Of course the voice of 6 TO's is unlikely to make much of a difference although I daresay those that have spoken up here are some of International OPs most prolific and ardent TO's but even the most ardent fan can get fed up when the outlook is so bleak :(
 
I think they hear us overseas, but they are not listening. (if you know what I mean)

Would we do it again.
Yes and No
Yes we would start playing and doing weekly club events,
but NO
We would never ever wanted to be involved with OP again.
Not want to know official rules, formats or whatever.
Not want to know that there are somewere on the globe promocards to earn if you play the game, but which you don't get if you are in the wrong country.
Not want to know pricestructures from event you will never get.
Not want to pay a lot of money (faxed 30 minutes to sign up 7 kids) trying to get kids to be signed up at that My Pokemon.
Not want to be defamed by slander/lies off the distributor.


Every times we go to the pokemon-tcg pages we get hick ups, did you see those badge you can earn and those cool prizecards?
You only have to sign up for league. Yes off course we believe that without doubts.
I think that's the reason our country has only 1 official league.(impressive result after 1year PUI OP)
Who cares about badges and cards, nobody I think otherwise we should have more leagues, don't we?
Retailers are in line to sell Pokemon product and also have free time enough to spend weekly a few hours (on a volunteer base off course) to run a league.
Off course are the remaining volunteers who are not that lucky to own a store in line to run a league for a store owner. Especially when they know that the are not taking serious.
It's nice to know, because in case someone will take you serious for playing/teaching a kidsgame, you take the risk to be picked up and locked in a hospital for mental disease.

And Premier events organized by independent organizers, don't make me laugh. Which independent organizers? The National Distributor? If one party is not independent it's them.

But what we want is to play a game we like and that's exactly what we are doing (for years) and will continue.
But without support and respect from the ones who are in public saying they are giving that. (but also that's nothing new)


We waisted a whole pokemonyear trying to get things equal or even a bit equal.
We waisted time and energy, what we better put in setting up something bigger local/unofficial/fan based.
We are on the point of no return.
We think that even 100 people can make a difference and change things, but not the way we are doing now.
All we like to warn you for, if you keep up going sanctioning tournaments, they will think that's everything is oke. Your distributor can tell PUI, look we have lots of tournaments, let's continue.
That 95% of those tournaments is done by veterans, who are in this game for a long time, will not give you any benefit.
But what will happen if all veteran international TO's stop sanctioning for a year.
For our country we know. How about yours?
 
Giday

Believe it or not ... but our country is actually growing in pokemon support again.

At a City Champs the distributor helped arrange they had ... wait for it ... 14 players !!

Yu Gi Oh at the same expo had ... 1000+ players trying to register !!

Ok i admit, i judged & ended up running the Pokemon event (manually), but it was a high calibre event with a number of their top ranked players attending. The champion went on to get 3rd at nationals.

Since then ... i've helped them start a league, something they've NEVER had, which had 22 at the their 2nd monthly meeting. They got too big for the local library, but we managed to find a local shop to take them in for now.

Another player in a nearby city (approx 100km away) is also starting a league ... with my assistance again.

Considering i'm 800km away from the nearest 1, i feel pleased with my efforts so far :D

Anyways ... time will tell if we get any more support from the distributor / PUI. I'd hold my breath, but that could prove to be fatal, so i'll just hope.

PUI ... please take note of what we're all saying ... it's within YOUR interests !!

IF i was out of the game ... NOTHING would've happened except the death of the game & the loss of sales.
 
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Master_Prof_Juggie,

giday back at you and just stop for a minute and read what you are saying .. you are doing the work you are growing the game and without you the game dies yet how much do they (PUI) care about you .. not much that is what! Lia makes a good point whilst we continue to legitimise the lack of support and action that local distributors and PUI provide by doing their job for them nothing will get any better...

We make them look good :(
 
There is more you can do, to show how long the arm is of veteran volunteers.
We decided, if they don't listen, they have to feel it.

So what happened this weekend.
Official Prerelease sunday june 13 organized by the National Distributor
Unofficial training for Nationals tournament unfortunatly also on sunday june 13 organized by the 2 Dutch "don't know the market" clubleaders. (What a coincidence)

17 players attended to the prerelease, we had just a little little more.
I don't have to explain that the Distributor was not amused, but we were.

Just to fresh up your minds.
November 2003 Dragon prerelease (we were allowed to do a prerelease) and got 54 players.(without advertising)
November 2003 Dragon prerelease by the distributor 10 players (and 8 of them were ours)

March 2004 MA prerelease, we are not on speaking terms with the distributor so we don't have a prerelease. But the distributor invited 25 people to play for free at theirs, we showed up with a bunch of our players, because meaby supporting their event would give us the change to do one again in the future. Total players 77. Advertising budget of thousands of Euro's.

June 2004 HL prerelease organized by the distributor total of 17 player (and that's including 4 of ours)
so that makes only 13 players they have from their active OP management which is running for almost a year now.

Just some numbers 77 in March (including ours)
77 - 25 (free entrance given picked from a on-line quiz, so not skilled players, most of them even didn't know were energies were for) that makes 52.
52 - 13 makes 39 -4 (ours) makes 35.
Were did those 35 stay, we know.

And this friends is only 1 way to show how much veteran volunteers should be involved in OP.
Of course there will be pointing fingers to us, telling that we are sabotaging this game.
And of course we are the ones to blame for the low attendance.
I don't know in which form they will blame us, but they will. And of course POP/PUI will stand right behind this attribution, because they won't let their distributors fail.
And because it looks a bit like failing you need someone to blaim and who is a better object than we.

Is it our mistake that players prefer not to attend to a bad arranged, biased judged and expensive tournament.
Is it our mistake that players prefer to play at our tournaments, our players are ignored from the start and a prerelease is not really a challenging event.(read not sending them leaguematerials or support).

At least the distributor has enough prerelease cards left to send to shops who can sell them.
they can ship them amoung with the left over leaguekits.

And finally our next Grand event will be at August 29, I heared that is a good date to do anything unofficial.
 
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Ukpokemonpro

Yes I'm an old fan and now I'm a retailer too, but beeing a retailer will not change what I say for months.

If you want a game to grow (or not die), you need support and OP.
I understand the distributor's decisions about POP. They sell a lot of games, and some of these are better sellers that Pokemon. Putting money in these games instead of Pokemon is a logical strategy, they're in business and are working for profit.

But PUI has only one product, and THEY should promote the game EVERYWHERE in the World like they do in the USA. They give a discount to the distributor if they run OP ? Wouldn't it be more interesting to say 'You run POP, we give you xxx USD for this year, we want you to do this and that, and you show us the figures and what you've done with the money at the end of the year. If you've done what you had to do it's ok, if you haven't we find another distributor'.
That's what I call to give support and have tools to follow what is done or not.

My feeling is that PUI has found a very easy way to give the responsibility of international POP to other companies.
Some of us say for one year now that this solution is not good, nobody listened to us.
When will PUI realize that POP is almost dead in a lot of countries ? When they'll have the figures of the players at the Nationals, when they'll see the sales, when ... ?

Unfortunately, in some countries like Belgium, I'm afraid it's already too late. The National will be run next Sunday, I wonder how many players will be there ... and how many Belgian players as our friends from Holland will come to Ghent.
I'll not play the National ... I'll play the French championship on the same day. My personal way to say that POP is still international :D
 
I even wanted to keep this game international, but some countries Distributors are not even keeping it European.
UK - disclosing foreign people from bigger prizes
DE - foreign people not even allowed to join.

Belgium is the only one were we are welcome to play.
(some other countries meaby to but they are to far away).

So to make the Belgium Nationals Headquarters of International POkemon, we will attend with 10 players, but Michel we will miss you.
We will meet at our Nationals and this time I'm planning to beat you.
 
Well we have no official details of our Nationals up yet!! There is nothing at Pokemon-TCG.com and nothing at the OP providers website, nobody has yet got any invites and it's all happening on the 3rd July!!

Looks like another great success for a PUI distributor.. seems that if you want a well run, advertised and fun event you don't go to one run by the distributor and PUIs choice you go to the much ignored and maligned Professors and TOs!
 
Rainbowgym said:
UK - disclosing foreign people from bigger prizes
DE - foreign people not even allowed to join.
Click to expand...

What? There were the two stadium challenges in Germany last weekend and I know nothing about that international players were not allowed to join.

And why are Nationals named Nationals? Because they are meant for the people in that country. Are you allowed to attend a foreign Nationals in Magic? No. Because they are Nationals and not Internationals.

I´m very angry about the fact that some players seem to want to exclude some countries from Worlds by snugging them there spots at Nationals away. I would never ever come to the strange idea to go to a foreign Nationals.
 
The answer that we are not welcome came from Amigo spiele so don't tell me I'm lying.
Must have been a very exiting tournament last Saturday with only 33 players.

And never ever compare Pokemon with Magic, there is nothing to compare only the fact that it's played with cards.
If Nationals are only for the People in that country I sure hope not to see any German player in Belgium or Holland.
And obviously you are not long enough in this game to know that a group of players travel to a lot of European events and among them are also German players. It has been for years possible to earn a place for Worlds by traveling to other countries.
If the structure in EACH country was the same I am the last one to have problems with reserving Nationals for people living in that country, but because it isn't equal arranged, why not traveling across the border.

We don't have a Stadium Challenge, we don't have a Gym Challenge and we also don't have a trip for the players under 10.
And if you have over 30 players under the age of 10, I would love to see YOU explaining why they are not treated equal. They are not allowed to play in the 11-14 agegroup and so there is no change to go to Worlds for them.
Some of those are playing for already 3 years and are on a real good level and not getting the change to compete at Worlds makes me only say.
The winner overthere is not a real Worldchampion, as long as some players don't get the change to qualify.
 
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