Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Is coin flipping ethical?

F

failtrainer

New Member
I know everyone has dice nowadays when they play Pokemon. Back when I first started playing literally no one used them. Probably it was a combination of attacks being weaker, cards being able to hold less damage before being knocked out, and maybe even damage counter makers wanting to reap profit.

Anyway, most everyone just rolls dice for everything where they're supposed to flip a coin. All the same, the text does say flip a coin. But, remarkably, you might be able to say that it is cheating to actually flip a coin if the spirit of the idea is to have a truly 50/50 chance of whatever effect taking place. Coin flips aren't 50/50, the odds are slightly skewed in favor of the side showing before the flip. It's more like 51% for the side showing. Not a lot, but over time hey it could make a difference.

So is it wrong to flip coins as compared to rolling dice? Just interesting to ponder. And, if we come to the conclusion that it's fine (not saying that it will be banned of course), then you should probably put down the dice for Hypnotoxic Laser or Crushing Hammer and pick up a coin. :thumb:
 
and maybe even damage counter makers wanting to reap profit.
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Can't help but laugh at this part.

Anyway, in my experience, coin flips usually cause more whining than dice rolls. This is the main reason I prefer dice any day. For dice, the only question is whether it was truly rolled or just straight dropped. Coins can be dropped, slip out of your fingers, be flipped awkwardly (without spinning) and then there's the discussion whether all coins are reliably random, which I believe they are not.

Both are legally accepted methods according to the Pokemon rules (section 3.5 of TCG rules), but transparent dice would be highly recommended imo. I don't think ethics played a big part in this decision, to be fair.

Coin flips aren't 50/50, the odds are slightly skewed in favor of the side showing before the flip. It's more like 51% for the side showing. Not a lot, but over time hey it could make a difference.
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If this were the case, I doubt both methods would be authorized. Let's assume both methods are close to 50/50.
 
- it's easier to roll dice, at least for some people
- it's the same probability (H,T or 2,4,6 or 1,3,5)
 
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As long as the coin/dice is legal and sanctioned by the head judge, then ethics doesn't enter in to it.

Both are perfectly acceptable choices.
 
True Mario, both are perfectly acceptable to use. The question of ethics here isn't the legality of it, but if you should be doing it if it's not truly 50/50 when you could assume that is the spirit of the mechanism being written into the game.

I know it's a non-point really, just something to ponder for fun.
 
AnUnown said:
I'm,lost on the numbers above. Isn't heads usually even while tails is odd?
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His point is that you have the same chance of flipping a H/T as you do rolling a H/T With a 1,3,5 or 2,4,6. 1:1 set, 3:3 set.

If someone is noticeably bad at coin flipping yet insists on doing it, am I allowed to call over a judge or something to observe the next coin flip and potentially rule for dice the rest of the match? Some people insist on coin flipping that are truly not good at it.
 
I assume dice usage being common is in part because amongst "gamers", it really is the norm. Besides other TCGs, most tabletop games use dice as random number generators.
 
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Yeah the dice surely has some to do with people growing up with pokemon then playing other games as they get older or playing other games first then moving into pokemon the last handful of years.

But I think it's also just being practical. So much damage can be on the field these days, and especially done at one time.


Still, being in a sort of time warp and absent from the game 8 or so years, coming back and seeing dice was really weird to me. As weird as not getting more points for wins than losses at Pokemon Leagues. :p
 
I love flipping coins more than rolling die. So much more dramatic! I think that it is silly to not allow or question a player that uses the coins that pokemon provides for its players and just because you like to use die doesn't mean that someone flipping a coin is trying to gain an unfair advantage.
 
If you mean me, I don't like using dice at all. :p

Of course most coin flippers have an absence of malice. Once someone learns of the fact though, what should they do?


I won't get into the odd fact it takes 7 shuffles of 52 card playing card decks to truly randomize it. There has to be a similar number for Pokemon decks and consider how we shuffle a time or two.
 
failtrainer said:
I won't get into the odd fact it takes 7 shuffles of 52 card playing card decks to truly randomize it. There has to be a similar number for Pokemon decks and consider how we shuffle a time or two.
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This usually results in a 10+ page thread full of heated discussion.

For the record, there are real concerns with coin flips. On the low skill end, you have the players that constantly flip a coin off the table. On the high skill end, you have someone capable of manipulating the outcomes (though a truly legal flip should avoid this - again, 10+ page heated discussion the board has once or twice a year :rolleyes:). The happy medium in between seems a bit rare; someone skilled enough not to flip the coin out of bounds but not so skilled as to influence the results of the flips.

However, there is another concern; a good, weighty metal coin (the kind I prefer to use) is... a weighty, metal coin and when it comes down edge first on a card, it can ding the card. Even if the odds are low, with the amount of coin flips in the game this can be a bit "scary" being worried about that one "hard" flip, coming down, and denting a rare, expensive card.
 
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