Judges That Don't Know What's Going On

[Pinsir52]

First, i didn't know where to put this topic, so mods, just move it if you need to.

Well, the deck that won my BR last sunday was a deck that worked off of Water-logging a foretress. As most of us know, there was a ruling a full week before BR's that said if you waterlog a foretress, you flip only one coin. That (i think official) announcement can be found here: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82517&highlight=foretress

When the player beat my cousin by doing like 100 damage to everybody (waterlogging like 16 energy on foretress...stupid smeargle), I was playing next to him, so I really couldn't say anything, because that would be disturbing their match. After their match, I tried telling the player that he had an illegal move, and both he and the TO said it was fine.

Now, in juniors and seniors, I wouldn't think as much of a thing like this, but when our PTO isn't up to date with rulings like these, it really 's me. Is there anything we can really do about this sort of thing? Does anybody else have any similar experiences? Discuss!

 

[SD PokeMom]

once the event is uploaded, it will appear in your my pokemon account. in the tournament record, there is a place where you can comment directly to OP.

that is the place to discuss a judge's decision, not on a forum that said judge may not frequent and have no opportunity for rebuttal.

alternatively, there is a judging questions forum on the POP boards, which as a professor you should have access to.

'mom

 

[ApachePrime]

And during the match if you see someone do something illegal, you surely CAN bring it up. Every tournament I've been to has said "If you see someone do something questionable, call a judge, even if it's not your opponent."

 

[meganium45]

This is a question that should be posed on the Ask the Masters forum of this board and the official PUI board for a response as to how you should handle a ruling that you know is improper on a game that is not yours.

I would use your feedback feature as well. Feedback is just that. If noone tells PUI, they have no way of knowing. They do not always check the boards.

Vince

 

[Pinsir52]

Ok, thanks guys. Now that I know how to go about this the right way, someone can close this thread, I guess.

 

[MrMeches]

And during the match if you see someone do something illegal, you surely CAN bring it up. Every tournament I've been to has said "If you see someone do something questionable, call a judge, even if it's not your opponent."

This is actually discouraged in the Rules.

5.1. Player Responsibilities
While attending a POP event, players are expected to abide by the tenets outlined in Section 1 of
this document. Players must know their POP ID, if they have one.
Players must have everything needed to play in an event, including a legal randomizer, damage
counters, and Special Condition markers. It is a player’s responsibility to ensure that his or her
deck is meets the construction requirements at all times during an event.

5.2. Spectator Responsibilities

Spectators may watch a match but may not interfere with a match in any way. The only way a
spectator is to interact with an event is through contacting a judge to inquire into the legality of a
specific play. Comments and questions regarding games in progress should be made an
appropriate distance from the match to prevent players in the active game from gaining an
advantage of outside information.

Players who are still participating in a tournament may not watch other games still in progress, as
this provides an unfair advantage to those players during later matches.

Any disruption on the part of a spectator not participating in an event will result in penalties for
the player or players that the spectator is responsible for. Should it become necessary to remove
a spectator from an event, players that the spectator is responsible for will be disqualified from
the event as well.


The Bold portion is the reflection of a Player watching another match. The underlined poriton is what could cause a conflict as you can not leave your match to go discuss with a Judge a safe distance from the errored match due to you still being in the tournament and not a Spectator.

Now on a personal note, it might be needed to review this item of the Rules as Judges can't see everythign and SOTG includes Fairness and Honesty. An adjoining player should have some ability to raise their hand to call over a Judge and discuss a ruling. This allows the Game State to be corrected and make it FAIR and FUN for ALL!

Bring it to the Professor Forums and see if you can't get some feedback!

Fish

 

[DukeFireBird]

So your telling me to wear blinders when im playing, to avoid looking to my left and right when im playing?

When I play, and I notice a mistake to the table next to me, I alert a judge so they can fix the issue.

~Duke

 

[meganium45]

The potential for abuse is there.

You may correct a problem that goes against your friend, but miss one that is in his favor.

The you is general and not directed at anyone.

Vince

 

[MrMeches]

Duke,

What I am saying is the potential for an opponent to try and say you are coaching the other player and "giving advice" is there which can severally alter the outcome of the match. Another issue is that this can cause a disruption in your match and then if it goes to time, does your opponent get the win due to the need you felt to discuss your neighbors match?

It is a slippery slope when player try to correct other matches that are ongoing. I am not saying to turn a blind eye to anything. In fact, if you see the last few snetences I wrote, I merely mention that this may need to be reviewed to identify an appropriate way of doing as to not disrupt your match and create a new situation to your opponent ot complain/argue about when time is called.

On a side note, this is why I ma starting to lean towards the Fall Battle Roads having no Premiere points so that New & Seasoned Judges can adjust to the New Rotation and Format. Cities be the First Premiere Events with points! I know this may raise a few eyebrows, but it would be a nice way to Train those wanting to move into the Administrative Side of things and no longer be Players at every event!

Correct problems in other matches after yours has completed. If it can't be rewound due ot the length of time, the Judge can still be made aware of the situaiton at a appropriate time where it would not be disruptive to ANY matches.

SOTG...ALWAYS!

Fish

 

[PokePop]

We get a new set every 3 months. There are always going to be new rulings that judges are going to have to be aware of right before events. As it is, BRs only have a weight of 4, very small.

As for discussing tournament issues on the Gym: Please do.
But with one major requirement: Do it with respect. Discuss the ruling or the call and what (you think) it should have been. Don't attack the person.
For three reasons.
In general we don't allow attacks of people.
They may not be able to defend themselves if they don't come here.
And attacking someone dramatically reduces the chance that they will be willing to reconsider their position.

Play ball.

 

[Pinsir52]

I wasn't trying to attack anyone; I didn't mention any names, and after thinking about it, I'm not gonna go complain to POP, because it's only a BR.

I know he didn't do it on purpose and he wasn't trying to cheat or anything, so I guess after thinking about it a bit, I'm not as T.O.'ed as I was when I posted this. Question: Does POP/the official Rules Team send email alerts to TO's/Judges? If not, they probably should, because stuff like this happening at anything cities or higher is rather unacceptable.

 

[DukeFireBird]

ok, thats a bit more clarified Meches. I think I may of misread what you put down in the first post. If it seemed like an attack, i apologize, but was only going off what was written. Granted yes, I wouldn't waste time in my match, What I did mean was that I would alert the judge as soon as possible, with little to no wait on my game. Luckily, the only time I have ever had to do this is at nothing higher than a CC. States and higher, im usually staffing, and if i do play, the players I have been paired up against are usually the best of the best for the area.

Once again, my apologies.

~Duke

 

[PokePop]

I wasn't trying to attack anyone; I didn't mention any names, .

I didn't mean to say that you did.
I was making it clear that this is a valid topic of discussion. There seems to be some feeling that we don't allow discussion of this kind of thing and that's not true.

and after thinking about it, I'm not gonna go complain to POP, because it's only a BR.
I know he didn't do it on purpose and he wasn't trying to cheat or anything, so I guess after thinking about it a bit, I'm not as T.O.'ed as I was when I posted this.

No! You need to report this! Otherwise how is the judge and/or TO going to learn that they are doing things wrong?

Question: Does POP/the official Rules Team send email alerts to TO's/Judges? If not, they probably should, because stuff like this happening at anything cities or higher is rather unacceptable.

While the rulings we collect and make available are official, we are not official.
We make it available, but we can't force people to read it.