Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

BW-on Kingdra's Comeback? (Post-Plasma Freeze)

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Poke Trainer J

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Pokemon (16)

3 Horsea (Plasma Freeze #18/116)
1 Seadra (Plasma Freeze #19/116)
3 Kingdra (Plasma Freeze #84/116)
2 Piplup (Dark Explorers #27/108)
1 Prinplup (Dark Explorers #28/108)
2 Empoleon (Dark Explorers #29/108)
2 Emolga (Dragons Exalted #45/124)
1 Thundurus (Emerging Powers #35/98)
1 Keldeo EX (Tin Promo #BW61)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (32)

4 Professor Juniper
4 Max Potion
4 Rare Candy
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 N
3 Ultra Ball
3 Skyla
3 Hypnotoxic Laser
2 Virbank City Gym
1 Super Rod
1 Computer Search

Energies (12)

8 :water:
4 :lightning:

Deck Total (60)

This deck focuses around trying to get as many :water: and :lightning: energies in your Discard Pile for Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack through the Trainers and Supporters ran to discard the energies such as Professor Juniper, Ultra Ball, and Computer Search while you can also bench snipe for 30 on 3 of your Opponent's bench Pokemon with Tri Bullet, plus in combination with Poison damage with LaserBank it also helps add more damage for Kingdra as well.

Emolga of course is for Call for Family to fill my bench up with Horsea's to try to Rare Candy with into Kingdra. Energy Switch may be a consideration to run for this deck but why should I when the attached energy will help add damage for Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack in the longrun? I thought about running Max Potion in this deck since Kingdra only needs 1 energy attachment for it's attacks anyway as long as I have loads of energies in my Discard Pile to keep re-using Dragon Vortex everytime. My biggest concern is decking out with this deck. I threw in Empoleon as a backup attacker which seems to have really good synergy with Kingdra in here.

Any help, comments, advice, and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated. :smile:
 
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Definitely run the Max Potions. Kingdra can use it.

Don't worry about decking out. Dragon Vortex ensures you'll always have a deck.

I'd drop one of your Level Balls in favor of an Ultra Ball. You don't mind discarding the energies as a cost, and you really need to grab the Kingdras that Level Ball can't grab.

Drop a Seadra in favor of a Kingdra. The Rare Candies are good enough, most of the time, and you need the better chance of getting your Kingdra.

I don't think you need so much electric energy. Water energy is more useful in your deck, as electric only helps Emolga.
 
Hmm, good point. However I'm concerned that I might not get enough damage output with Dragon Vortex cause I'm restricted to just 1 Supporter per turn and I wouldn't mind running Pokemon that can allow me to discard cards in my hand which unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case for the current format. So far Rayquaza is this decks' biggest threat (either that or Hydreigon in Darkrai variants) and since it's a Big Basic it can setup much faster than Kingdra can but it really depends on how many energies I can get in the Discard Pile for Dragon Vortex before my Kingdra gets one shotted.
 
I think 4 Max Potions is a must.

I think straight Kingdra is the way to go in this deck, no Emolga. This will open up a few plays. I think the key with this deck is damage spread, not so much its 1st attack. I have tried using Dusknoir in the deck, to much amazement, it works! It does, however lower consistency just a bit. This is obvious because of multiple Stage 2 Pokemon. Magnezone is uneeded. If you wanted a better draw support system I'd not add a 2/0/2 magnezone but a 2/2 Electrode. It is a searchable bicycle with a potential(hopefully never) attacker. This deck seems to be able to thin a hand efficiently.
 
I am going to build this with pure water energy and empoleon for an extra attacker an to use its draw ability to power up Kingdras attack
 
Ive been looking at this deck and lately i see a few altaria/garchomp decks
I would be tempted to run something like:
Pokemon
3 x horsea
1 x seadra
3 x kingdra
3 x Swablu
3 x Altaria
2 x Emolga
1 x Keldeo EX

Trainer/Supporter/Stadium
3 x N
3 x Professor Juniper
3 x Skyla
2 x Cheren
3 x Pokemon Catcher
2 x Skyarrow Bridge
3 x Level Ball
2 x Ultra Ball
1 x Computer Search - ACESPEC
3 x Rare Candy
2 x float stone
2 x Energy Switch

Energy
10 x Water Energy - Basic
5 x Lightning Energy - Basic

This was only quick but i think people will have suggestions to help you with your deck :)

---------- Post added 05/12/2013 at 01:07 AM ----------

Maybe one or two float stones can go since youve got skyarrow but Im sure people will think of something :)
 
- 1 seadra
- 1 keldeo ex
- 1 emolga
- 1 :water:
- 1 :lightning:

+ 1 kingdra
+ 1 mew ex
+ 1 rayquaza (dragon vault)
+ 1 thundurus
+ 1 thundurus EX

- 1 level ball
+ 1 ultra ball

- 3 switch
+ 2 bianca
+ 1 N

- 1 super rod
+ 1 energy search

you run 4 rare candy so i think only 1 seadra would do, 4 ultra ball is a must so that u can discard energy with them, the energy search could help since u run 2 types of energy, u really dont need switch in this deck because discarding for retreat is a good thing in this case u want the energy in the discard pile, so i replaced them with more draw support, the rayquaza is for later when u put the energy back in the deck, use his first attack to discard 2 cards from ur deck.

here's a link to my kingdra deck that i posted on the same thread if u want to have a second opinion
http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176529
 
If your going to keep Keldeo ex in there you should add float stone. Lets say that they just played a laser and you were poisoned. You could rush in with Keldeo and, if you had a float stone attached, retreat back into kingdra.
 
IMHO, Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack is actually the "weaker" of its 2 attacks. Even after you manage to get, let's assume 9 L/W energy, into your discard pile to KO a "big" HP defending Poké, you WILL have difficulty repeating the cycle since you've probably burned through lots of resources to perform your first Dragon Vortex attack. And those resources (i.e., Ultra Balls, Computer Search, etc.) are no longer available for future use fueling repeated, significant damage output. So, using Tri Bullet can be very effective to setup follow-on, multiple KOs.

I'd suggest:
-5 L
+2 Max Potion. To tank your first Kingdra and buy you time to setup others.
+1 Energy Search. Could be helpful to grab the W energy when needed.
+2 Bianca/Cheren. Needed card draw support.
 
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I dunno, Tuxedo. Once the deck sets up, I find a Kingdra deck can pretty reliably get 4 or so energy into the discard pile each turn. That's usually enough for a KO every other turn at least, while Tri Pallet is able to set up for the KO.

That said, your suggestions are good ones.
 
Godzfirefly said:
I dunno, Tuxedo. Once the deck sets up, I find a Kingdra deck can pretty reliably get 4 or so energy into the discard pile each turn. That's usually enough for a KO every other turn at least, while Tri Pallet is able to set up for the KO.

That said, your suggestions are good ones.
Click to expand...
I'd like to better understand how you are able to "consistently" get 4 energy into your discard pile after, let's say, after your turn 3 (at some point, you've exhausted your card-discarding resources)? I'm really curious to know your technique, because I think this deck has some frightening potential. By the way, I recognize that the Professor Juniper "dump hand and draw" Supporter is critical to the deck's success, but those are limited to. And even if you manage to use a PJ each turn (e.g., turns 4 -7), you're now in the "mid-game" stage with card-dumping resources assumingly exhauted. what has been your thoughts regarding the deck's ability to go toe-to-toe with the big guns? Thanks.

I really like spread decks. I've played LMT (aka big basics) most of this season with success and a Landorus EX (or now a Kyurem PF) start can yield early game advantages. So, I find the 3 Poké targets spread (just just W energy cost) just too good to pass up right now. I hope to playtest this deck this week; so, I'll have more feedback later.
 
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I talked to one of my friends whose a really good player in the Pokemon TCG and she told me that I should go with a 2-1-2 Kingdra line with 3-2-3 Empoleon DEX cause Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack is only good as a finisher late game where as Empoleon seems to be the better main attacker due to Attack Command relying more on Pokemon in play than Energies in the Discard Pile, that and Diving Draw helping with Kingdra's Dragon Vortex to some extent however you're still discarding 1 card to draw 2 which seems okay I guess.

She also suggested that I should run Thundurus from Emerging Powers for Disaster Volt to help get more energies in my Discard Pile faster, plus with Thundurus's Charge attack I can sift through alot of Lightning energies to send to the Discard Pile at that rate as well. However, only running 2 Stage 2 lines in this deck would only slow it down so the right idea may be to go straight Kingdra with no :lightning: in this deck, I do think Pachirisu from Plasma Freeze for Minor-Errand Running seems pretty solid with getting off Dragon Vortex as it saves you a Supporter for turn to discard more energies in the process.

As for playtesting this deck TuxedoBlack, I'd be interested to see how Kingdra goes for you.
 
TuxedoBlack said:
I'd like to better understand how you are able to "consistently" get 4 energy into your discard pile after, let's say, after your turn 3 (at some point, you've exhausted your card-discarding resources)? I'm really curious to know your technique, because I think this deck has some frightening potential. By the way, I recognize that the Professor Juniper "dump hand and draw" Supporter is critical to the deck's success, but those are limited to. And even if you manage to use a PJ each turn (e.g., turns 4 -7), you're now in the "mid-game" stage with card-dumping resources assumingly exhauted. what has been your thoughts regarding the deck's ability to go toe-to-toe with the big guns? Thanks.

I really like spread decks. I've played LMT (aka big basics) most of this season with success and a Landorus EX (or now a Kyurem PF) start can yield early game advantages. So, I find the 3 Poké targets spread (just just W energy cost) just too good to pass up right now. I hope to playtest this deck this week; so, I'll have more feedback later.
Click to expand...

I understand your reluctance to accept my word about the 4 energies per turn. I'd be glad to explain. First, the 4 is an average over two turns, usually. It is more accurate to say that I find that most Kingdra builds can get 8 energy into the discard in two turns. 9 is unfortunately pushing it, leaving a lot of quite popular pokémon out of OHKO territory.

Different builds seem to do this in different ways. All share the methods of Ultra Ball, Computer Search, and Professor Juniper. Max Potion and Retreats can add an energy or two into the mix, in most cases. But, there is a reason Kingdra shouldn't be run alone. Kingdra needs an energy cycling partner. I have seen 3 effective options bandied about, to date.
Option 1) Empoleon's Diving Draw can get at least one energy into the discard per turn. It is surprising how easy it is to get an Empoleon sitting on the bench and a Kingdra active. If you can get two Empoleon on the Bench, Kingdra flies, not even needing a retreat to fuel itself. Downsides: Two Stage 2s are notoriously inconsistent at set-up.
Option 2) Rayquaza from Dragon's Exalted. It doesn't help as much during set-up, but once the first Dragon Vortex has occurred, Rayquaza's Dragon Pulse is really good at getting the energy back into the discard pile.
Option 3) Thundurus can pull Lightning Energies out of the deck onto itself with Charge. It has enough hp that if it is doing this during set-up then it might get its 2nd attack off, doing respectable damage and distracting your opponent from your vulnerable Horsea. Thinning your deck of Energies duting set-up is fairly helpful, and when Thundurus is knocked, you'll be that much closer to a Dragon Vortex. Downside: A smart opponent can handle Thundurus without knocking him, or even just take the 90 damage each turn as favorable to Dragon Vortex. And, Thundurus's retreat is too low to make discarding that energy easy (barring Max Potion.)

I also understand how much you like spread decks. I like them, too. My very first deck in the Pokémon TCG was based around Empoleons from the DP era spreading damage. But, with the high hps of basics in this format and the popularity of cards like Max Potion, it seems unlikely to be effective currently.
 
Yeah just as I thought, this deck seems way too slow to keep up with the format when a better alternative would be to run 2-3 Big Basics with 1 Stage 1 or 2 line when running 2 Stage 2 lines with no Big Basics (or any) at all seems like suicide. Stage 2 decks these days mainly focus on running 1 evolution line instead of being able to run 2 to keep up with the speed of the format cause If you do run 2 majority of the time it will cost you the game cause there's so much hand disruption right now in the current meta with N and Ghetsis.

Having 2 Empoleon's on the bench to discard 2 to draw 4 to fuel up Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack just seems very inconsistent cause you need to get Rare Candy off to play those Pokemon before Candy gets shuffled back into your deck via N or Ghetsis like I mentioned earlier. It's times like these that I feel bad about Broken-Time Space not getting a functional reprint for our current format, could it be bad for BW-On? Maybe, but not much more so than the Big Basics that we deal with competitively especially Darkrai EX, Landorus EX, and Mewtwo EX.
 
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