landorus/mewtwo options
- Thread starter celeni
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Team CREAM
New Member
Depends. Are you looking for more speed, or are you looking to be hard-hitting?
But Hypnotoxic Beam and Virbank gym allow for 30 damage before they can switch meaning you pretty much got a second attack on one Pokemon. Etherdex, which is for Energy acceleration, isn't as good as I've found. I play Landorus/Mewtwo and, first turn, I usually draw a Mewtwo and a DCE or a Landorus and a fighting so Etherdex seems pretty useless. Doesn't our meta follow Japan? If it does, Etherdex as been long since forgotten. Besides, any deck that doesn't run consistent switching ability, is destroyed by Hypnotoxic Beam and Virbank City Gym (Zekeel and Rayeel come to mind).
slowbrodeo
New Member
EtherDex is bad in the deck because you run DCE. Plus, you just don't have the space.
I prefer the Virbank/Lasers option. Theorymon aside, the lasers are such a good card. I was skeptical about them at first, because it's easy to talk about how you can play around them. However, after testing the cards, I was blown away by the power of doing an extra 30 damage per turn. The BONUS: pulling off a heads and sleeping your opponent. There is a 25% chance your opponent will not be able to attack the next turn without a switch/warp point/Keldeo. You can donk Squirtles with Landorus EX (if you have the unfortunate luck to start with him). You can donk anything with <90hp with Tornadus EX. It just seems like the better option in a format that is starting to be all about power. Black Kyurem EX is a thing.
I prefer the Virbank/Lasers option. Theorymon aside, the lasers are such a good card. I was skeptical about them at first, because it's easy to talk about how you can play around them. However, after testing the cards, I was blown away by the power of doing an extra 30 damage per turn. The BONUS: pulling off a heads and sleeping your opponent. There is a 25% chance your opponent will not be able to attack the next turn without a switch/warp point/Keldeo. You can donk Squirtles with Landorus EX (if you have the unfortunate luck to start with him). You can donk anything with <90hp with Tornadus EX. It just seems like the better option in a format that is starting to be all about power. Black Kyurem EX is a thing.
You are the first person I have seen that said the poison combo is terrible. You have not tested this combo yet or read anything about it. Putting 3 damage counters on a pokemon is dumb, really dumb. Even if they switch out and get rid of their special conditions, the combo has done its job, damage and disruption.
Either is terrible, the card can fail, too much room taken up in deck to make 1 card work. Not very good.
I played against Ninetales/Amongoos with my Rayeels and it only took a single prize to my 6.
It's a cute deck but I don't see it doing more than annoying me and getting wins against those who are not prepared or too poor to get a Keldeo. Keldeo isn't even too much of a cost for entry anymore as you can run 8 Switch in any deck thanks to Warp Point being reprinted.
Thats because ninetales isnt even that good even with the poison support. Almost any flexible deck can run these cards. Hypotoxic laser is like plus power but even better since you can deal alot more damage and even put their pokemon to sleep.
Your not going to start with Keldeo every single game, especially if your only playing 1. Plus a Keldeo requires you to have another Pokemon to even work. How many games do you start with just 1 Pokemon?
Hypnotoxic laser and Virbank is basically 3 plus powers and if you cant retreat then its 6 plus powers. Your going to see really stupid donks with Tornadus, Ho-Oh, Landorus, Mewtwo, etc. These cards lead to 70-100 damage 1st turn on the board, 2nd turn your not going to win if you dont have another Pokemon and unless your deck is stacked with EX's (which I doubt since every deck plays some non EX's) then prepare to have games where you didnt get to play and lose thanks to these two cards.
Otaku
Active Member
At this point, it reads like you are either trolling are have made a pretty bad error.
Ninetales/Amoongus isn't even strong enough to be reliably considered "rogue". Even if Hypnotoxic Laser/Virbank City Gym actually elevated it into a Tier 1 deck... you are basing your conclusion on a single game, and one where you ran a mature deck that might still ultimately be the best deck in the format (note: I am not saying it is "BDIF", I am allowing that overall it could be).
Virbank City Gym is a Stadium, so while it can be countered by other Stadiums, it in turn provides a counter to them. Hypnotoxic Laser guarantees (barring effects like Thick Skin) an extra counter's worth of damage, and a 25% chance the Defending Pokémon is affected by Sleep. I could be a bit off (probability tends to be more complicated than it looks :lol
, but I arrived at that figure according to Hypnotoxic Laser requiring a successful coin toss to inflict Sleep, and then the opponent going through one Sleep Check before their turn.The only advantage PlusPower has over Hypnotoxic Laser is that it will exploit Weakness. Otherwise, Hypnotoxic Laser will now force decks to dedicate space to shaking Special Conditions, or risk a "PlusPower perpetuity", as those damage counters add up. Even without Virbank City Gym, failing to ditch the Poison condition results in an extra two damage counters by the end of your turn, and three by the end of your opponent's next turn. In a format of near OHKOs, that adds of quickly.
Using Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym to full effect does require a player do the math quickly and accurately. There are many times, however, where it will matter; three extra damage counters resulting in a 2HKO becoming a OHKO, or a 3HKO becoming a 2HKO. Also, Keldeo EX will probably always be the universal first target of the combo if it is just being used for its Ability; use Pokémon Catcher to force it Active! Only if your opponent already has the full combo in play (multiple Keldeo EX, or Keldeo EX plus Darkrai EX) is it not going to be unwise.
As for those bashing Ether/Pokédex, I suggest reserving judgment. My understanding is that it has faded from usefulness in Japan at the moment, but my understanding is limited to reading one or two articles on the matter. Even if the information is accurate, it doesn't mean the card will stay out of use; Max Potion and Super Scoop Up usage has waxed and waned as well. Our metagame may simply not end up at the same point the Japanese metagame is at, or at least won't reach it at the same time.
The actual combo is a lot more sound than it is given credit for; you don't need to run only basic Energy cards, you just need to run enough that Pokédex becomes reliable to set-up for Ether. The exact amount varies, but you are getting to look through five cards with Pokédex, so odds are not terrible even if you are just running 8-10 basic Energy cards. Running Special Energy only matters because of your overall Energy count; otherwise another non-legal target is another non-legal target, no worse than running Pokémon or Trainers.
It just becomes problematic if you need to run say Double Colorless Energy and Colress Machine/Plasma Energy as you now have six to eight slots filled with Special Energy, leaving little room for basic Energy unless you run abnormally high Energy counts... plus you need room for Colress Machine, Ether, and Pokédex. Even that might actually work if some sort of "donk" deck could feed off of it.
i have finished playtesting both virbank/laser combo and ether/dex in seperate decks.
virbank/laser really cuts into the defendability of the deck.by cutting evolite and max potion counts. ironically making itself more vulnerable to virbank/laser itself. i do like how it pushes your rayeels matchup further into your favor but also does the same blastoise with giving blastoise more favor. i am on the fence about the extra 30 damage. i played
2virbank city gym
4hypnotoxic laser
ether/dex i found to be inconsistent and could never be relied upon. i had one game in 3 that i would just power up two attackers and run through them. the other two games were largely as if i didnt play ether at all. this just handed games over to rayeels and blastoise. the worst part is that n destroys you. not your top deck,but removing ether/dex from your hand. i played
4pokedex
4ether
10fighting energy
3dce
i was hoping for better results. unsure to test more. have playtested both varients in around 14 games.
virbank/laser really cuts into the defendability of the deck.by cutting evolite and max potion counts. ironically making itself more vulnerable to virbank/laser itself. i do like how it pushes your rayeels matchup further into your favor but also does the same blastoise with giving blastoise more favor. i am on the fence about the extra 30 damage. i played
2virbank city gym
4hypnotoxic laser
ether/dex i found to be inconsistent and could never be relied upon. i had one game in 3 that i would just power up two attackers and run through them. the other two games were largely as if i didnt play ether at all. this just handed games over to rayeels and blastoise. the worst part is that n destroys you. not your top deck,but removing ether/dex from your hand. i played
4pokedex
4ether
10fighting energy
3dce
i was hoping for better results. unsure to test more. have playtested both varients in around 14 games.
Otaku
Active Member
4/4 actually sounds heavy for Ether/Pokédex. Not saying that invalidates your results, just that what success I did have with it (which wasn't much because I didn't get a lot of testing done with it), it was one of those combos you tried to set up, but knew you couldn't rely on.