"Learning" deck help with Hippowdon.

[Neonsam]

Ok, I am going to post my first deck with some apprehension. I would like to explain a couple of things so you might be able to gear any help to where I am at right now as a player.

1) This deck is intended to go to events, see what's out there, and LEARN vs. WIN.

2) Hippo stays, I like him and, well... he needs me.:wink:

3) Please try and keep this deck basic. My kids have been playing, I never have, and would like a solid knowlege before I get fancy.

4) I know, Iknow Flygon works really well with Hippo.
Not sure I want to $invest$ in that line as I can't guarentee that this is even the deck I will be playing once I learn the game.

Thank you in advance, I know it takes time and energy to research and respond to a deck fix and I appreciate all suggestions.

Deck:

Pokemon (23):

3-3-1 Hippowdon [RR]
3-2-3 Sceptile [AR] 1 Sceptile [GE]
2 Groudon [LA]
2-2 Claydol [GE]
1 Azelf [LA]
1 Uxie [LA]

Supporters (12)

4 Bebe's Search
2 Professor Oak's Visit
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Pokemon Collector
2 Roseanne's Research

Trainers (9)

2 Rare Candy
2 Pokemon Reversal
1 PlusPower
1 Expert Belt
1 Luxury Ball
1 Pokemon Rescue
1 Pokegear

Energy (16)

7 :fighting:
5 :grass:
3 :colorlessDCE)
1 sychic:

I am using Sand Reset to deal most of my damage along with Sceptile's Dual Cut. Flippy you say? It is fun not knowing how much damage is coming out. Make things interesting. Am I KOing a Pokemon or not, let's find out!
Other things:
Azelf - Lv. X is always in my prize cards.
Claydol - draw power
Groudon - Find most people focus on him to make hime go away. Hits pretty hard for a basic.
Rare Candy - only 2 because Sceptile is secondary seems to work ok.
Roseanne's and collectors I can't decide which I like more so I have 2 of each.
I think I have too much energy, but I never seem to have much when I battle. Lack of energy = autoloss.

This exhausts my rulebook, Pokegym, playing against my kids knowlege base. Now I turn to you....

 

[Kayle]

Flippy you say? It is fun not knowing how much damage is coming out. Make things interesting. Am I KOing a Pokemon or not, let's find out!

Haha, we love flippy cards in fun decks. You should look into Exploud from Great Encounters. :wink:


As for the deck.

I want to clarify that you're using Sand Reset right. It's a really weird power.
- It can only be used once per game. Ever. I don't think you can use it again even if Hippowdon Lv. X leaves play.
- It doesn't touch the Discard Pile, Prizes or Lost Zone.
- It removes Energy. Including yours.



Azelf: Good call. Almost everyone plays this in any deck that runs a single card (in your case, you're only running 1 Lv. X), and I usually run it anyway just in case. I have had two Claydols prized before. Keep it.

Uxie: Running 1 Uxie is also a pretty safe move, nice. :thumb:

Groudon: Nice starter! The energy acceleration is pretty nice, and Major Earthquake is really powerful, like you say. Just watch out for the backlash damage.

Rare Candy: I'm a little surprised only 2 rare candies works for you, but if it works, it works. Even though your stage 2 is only a secondary line, I would recommend 2 Broken Time-Space to go with it - because BTS helps your Hippowdon and Claydols, too, which Rare Candy doesn't quite so much. (Advanced players could say that running 4 Rare Candy is preferable because BTS helps your opponent, too, but - that's advanced.)

Roseanne's Vs. Collector: If you are having energy pains, run more Roseanne's than Collector. Your deck doesn't need to get Basic Pokemon out terribly quickly so Collector isn't so necessary. If you like it, you can keep it, of course, but that's just my personal experience/analysis.




Energy: Yes, that's too many energy. I'm going to get into quite the little discussion here. <<

This is how I calculate energy in decks that seem to have energy issues:

- How many of each Pokemon do I ever intend to get into play?
(Hippowdon: 2-3? Sceptile: 1-2?)
- How much energy does each of those Pokemon need to do damage effectively?
(Hippowdon: Lots; Sceptile: GCC)

Hippowdon makes things difficult ("lots"), so we'll get to him. But, Sceptile can be used with only GCC. You only need one Grass energy per sceptile you ever intend to get into play. Account for the prizes by adding an extra or two.

So we only need 3 :grass:. I'll come back to this.

That Psychic energy isn't needed. You do not have any attacking Psychic pokemon or Psychic techs except Uxie (who uses Colorless) and Azelf (who should never be attacking anyway).

So we need about 3 grass. The CC can be paid for with Fighting or DCE if you want.

Now, generalized energy amounts for decks these days are 10-12 (for low-energy) to 14 (med-hi energy). So let's go with this, since this is a high-energy deck, for Save Sand:

3 :grass:
3 DCE
8 :fighting:

BUT WAIT! What if you want to use that Psychic energy? What if you're still drawing Grass when you wanted Fighting, or Fighting when you wanted grass? Well, this is where personal preference comes into play - but it strikes me that you could try using Multi or Rainbow energy.

Multi Energy does not get along with DCE. Rainbow does. However, Rainbow places a damage counter on the Pokemon you attach it to, when you attach it. You can also just run neither.

I personally would run this energy line (assuming no Call energy)

3 Rainbow
4 DCE
1 :grass: (for emergencies, if I NEED to grab one with Roseanne's)
6 :fighting:

Since Hippowdon only ever needs one or two Fighting energy to function, that line should be fairly effective. But you can play with it however you like.


Hopefully that all made sense and was somewhat helpful. ^^



Edit: I almost forgot!

You don't have any recovery cards. Most decks run 2-3 Night Maintenance to get Pokemon and Energy out of the Discard pile. In your case, you can grab the whole Hippowdon line and put it back into your deck with a single play. It's pretty nice!

 

[BlackBrock]

i always wanted to make a Hippo, deck but never got the chance too. i'd bump the Rare candy up to 4, so you can get a Hippo out on your first turn. or the same turn u play it. because it looks like a fairly quick set up, i'd drop the Phycic energy and max out your DCE's. and drop the Pokegear and Rescue for 2 Warp points or Switchs

 

[LifeCoach]

Great advice from these two. Someone please advise my deck lol

 

[Neonsam]

I am using Sand Reset to deal most of my damage along with Sceptile's Dual Cut.

Doh! I meant Save Sand to do damage. Typo, my bad. :nonono:

Roseanne's Vs. Collector: If you are having energy pains, run more Roseanne's than Collector. Your deck doesn't need to get Basic Pokemon out terribly quickly so Collector isn't so necessary. If you like it, you can keep it, of course, but that's just my personal experience/analysis.

I do have some energy challenges until I get Claydol up and running. I will drop the Collectors for Roseies.

Multi Energy does not get along with DCE. Rainbow does. However, Rainbow places a damage counter on the Pokemon you attach it to, when you attach it. You can also just run neither.

I like this idea and happen to have some fresh Rainbow energy pulled from a box of HGSS.:smile:
I will try out the energy ratio suggested also, less energy means more other things, right?

You don't have any recovery cards. Most decks run 2-3 Night Maintenance to get Pokemon and Energy out of the Discard pile. In your case, you can grab the whole Hippowdon line and put it back into your deck with a single play. It's pretty nice!

I will try and get a couple after I look up what set they come out of. so, 2?

As always, Kayle I am greatful for the lessons. you are a guru!

...drop the Pokegear and Rescue for 2 Warp points or Switchs..

This is good, I always get stuck with lv X as active and can't move him. Thank you for the suggestion BlackBrock.

 

[Kayle]

Thanks. I'm glad I can help. :thumb:

Warp Points are good. For all of my cleverness and advice, as ever some of the simplest stuff escapes me.

I'm sure you've found it already, but Night Maintenance comes from Mysterious Treasures and Secret Wonders (IIRC). They can also be found in PoP8 promotion packs, but those aren't common anymore.

Palmer's Contribution - a more powerful, Supporter alternative - comes from Supreme Victors.

 

[Neonsam]

So for a quick recap, this is what the revised deck would look like.

Deck:

Pokemon (23):

3-3-1 Hippowdon [RR]
3-2-3 Sceptile [AR] 1 Sceptile [GE]
2 Groudon [LA]
2-2 Claydol [GE]
1 Azelf [LA]
1 Uxie [LA]

Supporters (12)

4 Bebe's Search
2 Professor Oak's Visit
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
4 Roseanne's Research

Trainers (11)

2 Broken Time Space
2 Night Maintenacne
2 Rare Candy
2 Pokemon Reversal
2 Switch/ Warp Point - trying to decide which one is better.....
1 Expert Belt
1 Luxury Ball
1 PlusPower

Energy (14)

6 :fighting:
4 :colorlessDCE)
3 Rainbow
1 :grass:

Look about right?

Thank you again to everyone who is giving ideas, it helps. :thumb:

Any others that aren't too advanced?
I was thinking of something that would heal all this damage I can dish out on myself.
-Rainbow Energy
-Ground Quake (Hippowdon)
-Major Earthquake (Groudon)
Don't know how it would fit though........Any thoughts?

 

[BlackBrock]

only poekmon i could think of, mianly cause it has free retreat is Butterfree HGSS, heals for 30 for one Grass and free retreat, or let it get KO'd, up to you.

 

[Arcanite]

Remove:
3-2-3 Sceptile
1 :grass:
1 pluspower

In:

2-1-2 Nidoqueen (rising Rivals, has a body that heals)
2 more groudon
3x Expert Belt (you can get rid of it with sand reset if they will take the two prizes! It also increases damage output and HP!!!)

 

[Neonsam]

Remove:
3-2-3 Sceptile
1 :grass:
1 pluspower

In:

2-1-2 Nidoqueen (rising Rivals, has a body that heals)
2 more groudon
3x Expert Belt (you can get rid of it with sand reset if they will take the two prizes! It also increases damage output and HP!!!)

Isn't 4 expert belt too many?

I was thinking of how to drop the septile line for something mo better though. However I do like the flippy!

And as for Nidoqueen 2-1-2 all Rising Rivals. How much energy does it take and how would I fit that in?

 

[Happiny13]

Nidoqueen isn't meant to attack, but it can because it has a good attack. I would use 1-2 psychic energy with it. It is mostly used to heal on your bench.

 

[Frodus]

Isn't 4 expert belt too many?

I was thinking of how to drop the septile line for something mo better though. However I do like the flippy!

And as for Nidoqueen 2-1-2 all Rising Rivals. How much energy does it take and how would I fit that in?

you say you want to know what to take 2-1-2 sceptile out for, but the answer is in your original post.
flygon. flygon works amazingly with this deck. I know you said you don't know if you want to invest but you can always playtest with proxies and if you like it then go out and get them.

let's look at what repercussions flygon would have on this deck.

let's take out 3-2-3-1 sceptile from your revised deck and replace it with 3-2-3-1 flygon LV X. (all RR line)

you can now change your energy to a simple and consistent 4x Call energy, 4x DCE, and 4x fighting. and 2 psychics just to give azelf/uxie free retreat.

as long as you have a fighting energy attached to a flygon, all of your fighting pokemon have free retreat.
flygon is also a very powerful (and now thanks to DCE very QUICK) attacker, instantly killing almost any LVL x. (I think Gengar is the only exception).

going further making changes from your revised edition:

take out the one pluspower for another expert belt.

take out both both pokemon reversals (they are flippy), and replace with 2 more warp point. thanks to flygon all of your pokemon have free retreat, so whatever they bring up can just retreat for free back into your killer.

take out both prof elm's training methods for two pokemon communications.

if you're insistent on no flygon yet, try replacing the sceptile line with a Rhyperior line (the one with enraged drilling). see how you like that.

 

[Neonsam]

you say you want to know what to take 2-1-2 sceptile out for, but the answer is in your original post.
flygon. flygon works amazingly with this deck. I know you said you don't know if you want to invest but you can always playtest with proxies and if you like it then go out and get them.

let's look at what repercussions flygon would have on this deck.

let's take out 3-2-3-1 sceptile from your revised deck and replace it with 3-2-3-1 flygon LV X. (all RR line)

you can now change your energy to a simple and consistent 4x Call energy, 4x DCE, and 4x fighting. and 2 psychics just to give azelf/uxie free retreat.

as long as you have a fighting energy attached to a flygon, all of your fighting pokemon have free retreat.
flygon is also a very powerful (and now thanks to DCE very QUICK) attacker, instantly killing almost any LVL x. (I think Gengar is the only exception).

I knew Flygon was a good matchup with the Hippo, however I could never figure out why. Frodus, thanks this gives me a whole new outlook on this deck. Maybe it could do ok after all. :biggrin:

 

[Neonsam]

So, this is the updated version of my deck that went to States. It was my first major tourney and I went 3 and 4. Pretty much got owned by Shuppet and Jumpluff. No problems with any Ampharos varients.

Would like some suggestions before regionals. Thank you in advance, I know it takes time and energy to research and respond to a deck fix and I appreciate all suggestions.

Deck:

Pokemon (21):

3-3-1 Hippowdon [RR]
2-2-3 Flygon (RR)
2-2 Claydol [GE]
1 Jirachi (LA)
1 Jirachi (RR)
1 Azelf [LA]
1 Uxie [LA]

Supporters (11)

4 Bebe's Search
2 Buck's Training
1 Palmer's Contribution
4 Roseanne's Research

Trainers (13)

4 Rare Candy
2 Warp Point
2 Night Maintenance
2 Expert Belt
1 Luxury Ball
1 Premier Ball
1 VS Seeker

Energy (15)

7 :fighting:
4 :colorlessDCE)
4 :Call

I am using "Save Sand" to deal most of my damage along with Flygon's "Power Swing". Flygon also provides free retreat to hippo when he is getting beat up. I switch the 2 a lot with the free retreat and warp point so no one pokemon takes tons of damage.
Other things:
Azelf - Lv. X is always in my prize cards.
Claydol - draw power
Jirachi - not sold on this card just needed the Groudon's out of the deck, they were just getting in the way for the potential "Drought" pay off. Not worth it in the end. This deck is pretty basic with not a lot of techs, but it seems to be working for me.

 

[Nugget_]

Play Hippo/Kiss It loses to Spray though.

3-3-1 Hippo X
2-2 Claydol
2-1-2 TogeKiss
1 Uxie La
1 Azelf
=18

3 Rose
1 Collector
4 Bebe's
4 Candy
2 BTS
2 Felicitys (For Save Sand)
3 Lookers(For Sprays)
2 Warp Point
1 LuxBall
1 Premiere Ball
2 Belt
=27

4 Call
11 :fighting:

Pwn face with the hippo.
Sand Reset at the right time.
Evolve into Togekiss
Put energys onto the hippo/anything that you want charged up.
Save Sand for 100 consistantly(it HAPPENS!)
GroundQuake for spread
Snipe for win.

There.

 

[BlackBrock]

actually got the deck working great, made mine. hidebehind spiritomb and sand reset then pull up flygon x wit irritating buzzing n rebuild. but i run 3 team galatic wage n 10 fight 3 dce's., n jirachi RR simply because hes the best starter for the deck.

 

[Neonsam]

actually got the deck working great, made mine. hidebehind spiritomb and sand reset then pull up flygon x wit irritating buzzing n rebuild. but i run 3 team galatic wage n 10 fight 3 dce's., n jirachi RR simply because hes the best starter for the deck.

What would you suggest pulling or changing for Spiritomb??

 

[BlackBrock]

What would you suggest pulling or changing for Spiritomb??

Azelf and Uxie, sounds bad because Azelf will come in handy, but thats just more Bench space taken.
(learned a good strat for picking prizes, if the first prize you put down is from the left to right going down, if you see the card is not in your deck and is prized... pick your prizes, left to right. one of the top 3 is that card u need) but doing that will give you the ability to duck and hide, because you dont wanna have to many pokemon, otherwise your run into the problem of Dark Palm, and stuff like that. i dont run any bench teck except claydol. thats bout it.