Misstep in Boundaries Crossed Release

[rivershock]

Why are people acting as if we outright got stuff like Switch INSTEAD of Ether, etc.? Only two of the additions are Uncommon. The rest are all Common. Also, more than 4 cards were inserted. I'd be willing to wager that if we didn't get reprints of Switch and co., the set would have simply been 143+secrets cards. I doubt they decided to replace them with reprints. The decision to hold them back was probably made long before that, and they included the reprints as a mix of helping new players and not having to put them in some other set for the next format.

 

[Phazon Elite]

I don't disagree with a single thing you said, ryanvergel, except for I never said that TPCi has more foresight than the Japanese card creators, I said they have more foresight than a typical player here.

For whatever reason, TPCi cannot release the sets as they are in Japan. So yes, we have to live with any alterations they make. Their job is to take the cards and design the GAME for us, which includes the format at any given time. By all means, complain about any given three-month format, but it crosses a line when it becomes a criticism of someone and the job they do.

Couldn't agree more.

Yes, as customers, let's call for someone to lose their ability to provide for their family because they made a decision more biased towards financial gain and primary market. Especially in a rough economy.

Sickening.

 

[Otaku]

Couldn't agree more.

Yes, as customers, let's call for someone to lose their ability to provide for their family because they made a decision more biased towards financial gain and primary market. Especially in a rough economy.

Sickening.

You know what is interesting?

Some of us on this board may have lost jobs because of customer/employer dissatisfaction. In a rough economy.

While I've read this thread, I don't have time to hunt for the exact reference implied. If someone was all "fire this guy for this decision!"...

...so what? This is the Pokégym message board, the "internet". Someone being a hothead may be annoying, but responding to it in kind doesn't help. I know, because as people have had to remind me, I do that myself all too often. >_<

Without all the data, we don't know if one person is really responsible or a team. Thing is, if it was one person, they may deserve to lose their job if this decision actually does hurt sales significantly (probably won't) and was their last chance. Again, odds are that has happened with some of us on this board; you aren't "guaranteed" a job and if you do your job poorly, you deserve to lose it. The tragedy of the economy and poor personal finance practices is that instead of finding what it is you're meant to do... you're stuck looking for any job you can get and then clinging to it even if you're bad at it, even if it makes you miserable.

 

[Aron Figaro]

If we had not known there were good cards coming from Japan, given the pattern of the last few sets, you're right: a lot of people wouldn't be saying "this set sucks". They'd be saying "this GAME sucks now" and not knowing there is a fix coming. Had I just seen a set full of beginning set cards and reprints like Black & White again, I'd make the same comment I did about THAT awful set: it sucks, and I really regretted making a less than informed decision to buy a box and attend some prereleases back then.

Why don't they put the beginning set cards where they belong: in a "starter kit" like M:TG used to have. I doubt it would sell either, but that only creates one more question: why even port over cards NO ONE wants? If the kids wouldn't buy them as a beginners' set, why would they want to open them out of Boundaries Crossed packs?

Even the kids that don't like Trainer cards would appreciate the more condensed, easier to collect sets Japan gets, and a bit flatter rarity model. Four uncommons wouldn't be a huge deal to them. Padding out a set with garbage cards isn't winning any friends in any market.

 

[Frost]

I want all of those garbage cards because I'm a collector and I like their artwork.

 

[Otaku]

I want all of those garbage cards because I'm a collector and I like their artwork.

So the question is... is that a good plan? The powers that be like to remind us that most purchases are coming from random little kids (or their parents) basically buying the booster in place of a toy.

Real collectors, like real players, are a part of the market, but not the dominant force. Now I am curious; do you actually want such cards to be made in Japan, or do you just want them brought over to collect since they exist in Japan?

 

[Frost]

I'm into collecting cards for their artwork and having a number of cards for each Pokemon, so I guess I want them because they exist in Japan. But the text on Pokemon cards is irrelevant to me in the first place. I wouldn't want the stuff from the National Beginning Set any more or less than if they were as potent as Mewtwo-EX.

I don't really understand the outrage over this set because almost all of the "filler" cards from National Beginning Set and the Keldeo Battle Strength Deck were slotted as commons or uncommons, and it's not hard to get common and uncommon cards, so their presence in Boundaries Crossed is nearly irrelevant in the first place. I can understand the frustration over the lack of the four Trainer cards, but they're almost certainly going to make it into the next set.

 

[Trican]

The rage largely I imagine comes from wanting a reason to buy the set aside from chase rarity cards.

 

[fushida]

Couldn't agree more.

Yes, as customers, let's call for someone to lose their ability to provide for their family because they made a decision more biased towards financial gain and primary market. Especially in a rough economy.

Sickening.

As an employee of TCPi, whoever was responsible for these decisions should also be open to criticism. It's not unreasonable that if I feel someone has made a poor decision, that they be called out for it. It's absolutely not unreasonable that someone be relieved of their duties if they continue to show that they're unable to perform up to par.

Just because whoever's responsible is supporting a hobby and a game that we all enjoy doesn't mean they're not liable to open criticism, and doesn't mean that they should be immune from any consequences of that.

Everyone has had their opinions, but you shouldn't dismiss the dissenting voices in the manner that you did because you feel it violates some arbitrary moral code of yours.

 

[Kayle]

Everyone has had their opinions, but you shouldn't dismiss the dissenting voices in the manner that you did because you feel it violates some arbitrary moral code of yours.

Actually, I think that's entirely within his right. I'm pretty certain of that in fact.

His "arbitrary moral code" isn't exactly far out in left field, or abnormal or anything. When you think about it, the insensitivity with which people throw around their complaints is at least as harsh as you saw Phazon's own post to be.

 

[Skitty]

The bolded cards are all bad. Swoobat is a fun card, which is why I didn't bold it as well.

When I was drafting, I was looking at the cards and saying, "Why did I pay $20 for this?" I've never thought that about drafting any other set ever (I didn't play drafts for COL). I looked at a wobbofett and saw that it occupied an uncommon slot, thought, "man this art is horrible, everything about this card is unpleasant, oh no I have to choose this card because it's the last one passed to me."

Dark explorers had a few cards that made you think, "why is this in here? There is a holo Haxorus but no axew or the middle evolution?", but there were a lot of really great cards in that set. Cheren, Bianca, Juniper, ultra ball, dark patch all in the uncommon slot and that just includes the trainers. DRX had very few trainers in the uncommon slot, but a lot of the holos were at least somewhat playable.

TLDR; This set is horrible, and if you think the percentage of playable cards is anywhere near good, you are in denial.

From what I can tell, the problem with these bad cards isn't that they're in the set, it's that they weren't meant to be good in the first place. Look where most of these cards origionally came from in Japan. Nearly all of the "bad" cards came from starter decks that were meant to teach you the game. The problem here isn't those cards exactly, it's how we get them. I'm sure if we had them exclusively in decks like Japan does instead of thrown in actual sets then we wouldn't have as much of a problem. The younger kids could get them and get their pretty legendary Pokemon like Victini, Shaymin and Keldeo and the older players and people that want to play compeditivly would just buy the packs and not have to worry about getting that Wobbuffet in a pack.

And the same goes with the Japanese promos that get thrown into the non-Japanese sets. They give some of them out in Japan just for visiting a Pokemon Center or for buying 3 packs. There's nothing stopping TPCI from doing the exact same thing here at somewhere like Toys R Us. These kind of cards aren't supposed to be "good" in decks, they're supposed to be a free gift for buying something or just visiting specific shops.

 

[Mystery Thing]

There's nothing stopping TPCI from doing the exact same thing here at somewhere like Toys R Us. These kind of cards aren't supposed to be "good" in decks, they're supposed to be a free gift for buying something or just visiting specific shops.

They can barely get game stores to take wireless distro units that just require plugging in and ignoring. Good luck getting stores to take on the responsibility of training employees on purchase-based card distribution. :frown:

 

[Otaku]

I am guessing they require plugging in and watching, to be honest.

Handing out "free stuff" is a stretch for certain big chain stores, but not others. When I was working in a Target, the big problem with giving out free stuff was usually the customers themselves. ¬_¬ Offering the promos to stores sponsoring Pokémon League on the other hand would make quite a bit of sense; "reward" stores that hold League by giving them some "free" (or minimally priced) promos to distribute to people who buy X packs (for example).

Beyond that, there is also the simple option of shifting some promos to similarly appropriate venues. With the various gift-giving holidays approaching, if they wanted to release something akin to the National Beginning Set over here, turn them into a 2-Player Starter deck set, and throw in two toys or plushies. Be a bit hard to include "all" cards in just two decks, but there are ways around that (four half decks that come with beginner rules, then merge two decks together to make two "real" decks, etc.)

Make it some sort of League deal... there are some good ways to distribute promos, and better than shoehorning them into sets.

Now I do think we shouldn't give the games designers in Japan a free pass for making weak cards just supposedly for beginners. There is a difference between something really good for beginning players but only occasionally good for more advanced players, like Potion, and something that is only useful for learning the game, if that. Being a "vanilla" Pokémon can be boring, but it doesn't have to be bad. Hitmonchan has no effects and no attach text, and it was really potent.

 

[LOLZ]

I understand that players are discontent with the change in the contents of this set, players do have the right to have an opinion, but for a website such as PokeBeach to post up a scan of one of the replacement cards (Switch) with changed text is really out of line. See the scans on pokebeach to know what I am talking about. Changing the text of a card to promote violence and theft in a friendly card game, is really a classless act. There is a line between Constructive Criticism of TPCI and Bashing TPCI. PokeBeach just crossed it. It is a real shame... /end rant.

 

[StormFront]

I understand that players are discontent with the change in the contents of this set, players do have the right to have an opinion, but for a website such as PokeBeach to post up a scan of one of the replacement cards (Switch) with changed text is really out of line. See the scans on pokebeach to know what I am talking about. Changing the text of a card to promote violence and theft in a friendly card game, is really a classless act. There is a line between Constructive Criticism of TPCI and Bashing TPCI. PokeBeach just crossed it. It is a real shame... /end rant.

Companies like TPCI are often dismisive and don't take constructive criticism seriously. I've never once seen a representive come on here and justify why certain cards are cut/put in. You must be one of the most uptight people on the internet if you think what Pokebeach did was crossing the line . Even a little kid would see the card for what it is and not be influenced by its uptake of violence. They weren't bashing TPCI, they were merely mocking them. As long as players boycott the set opt for singles instead. TPCI wll gradually get the message and begin to change their ways.

 

[psychup2034]

Companies like TPCI are often dismisive and don't take constructive criticism seriously. I've never once seen a representive come on here and justify why certain cards are cut/put in. You must be one of the most uptight people on the internet if you think what Pokebeach did was crossing the line . Even a little kid would see the card for what it is and not be influenced by its uptake of violence. They weren't bashing TPCI, they were merely mocking them. As long as players boycott the set opt for singles instead. TPCI wll gradually get the message and begin to change their ways.

I completely agree with this, especially that even a little kid would see Pokebeach's "Switch" as a parody and not as a promotion of violence/theft. The fact that some adults do not possess the discernment of a little kid is pretty unfortunate.

 

[Mystery Thing]

I didn't view it as "promoting violence/theft," but that doesn't mean it wasn't absurdly unprofessional. For a site that's clearly trying to be as legit and upstanding as a news site that WPM tries to make it come across as, it was wildly childish to do something like that.

 

[evil psyduck]

I didn't view it as "promoting violence/theft," but that doesn't mean it wasn't absurdly unprofessional. For a site that's clearly trying to be as legit and upstanding as a news site that WPM tries to make it come across as, it was wildly childish to do something like that.

Consider the source it came from.

 

[psychup2034]

I didn't view it as "promoting violence/theft," but that doesn't mean it wasn't absurdly unprofessional. For a site that's clearly trying to be as legit and upstanding as a news site that WPM tries to make it come across as, it was wildly childish to do something like that.

Pokebeach's legitimacy as a news site is determined by it's expedient and accurate delivery of Pokemon-related news, not by its light-hearted parody of TPCi's questionable decisions.

The staff at Pokegym have their biases as well in terms of their opinions on TPCi's decisions. These biases are often reflected in the content that Pokegym moderators and affiliated persons produce. There's nothing unprofessional about expressing opinion in the form of a parody.

 

[Prime]

Companies like TPCI are often dismisive and don't take constructive criticism seriously.

Assumption.

I've never once seen a representive come on here and justify why certain cards are cut/put in.

1) Who says the representatives that we've seen post on here before have any control over which cards are added/removed?

2) What would it help? I doubt your opinion on what should be and shouldn't be removed isn't going to affect future changes. Many changes have been made throughout the years with no communication from the player base. Why would it change now?

As long as players boycott the set opt for singles instead. TPCI wll gradually get the message and begin to change their ways.

You're wrong.

1) Players, as a whole, have never boycotted a set. There are too many players out there, that it would be impossible to rally every player to do the same thing, like not purchase a certain set. Even if one could communicate to one community online, there are still a majority of non-competitive players that purchase booster packs for their own wants, regardless of how competitive the set is.

2) Players have given TPCi plenty of negative feedback on sets throughout the years. Nothing has changed. TPCi makes the decisions on what to cut/keep and players have to accept it.

One of the main reasons I stopped playing this game was because of the inherit flaw in the game that in most sets, 80% of the cards are not important, not useful, and are just a waste of space. In some sets, perhaps the one mentioned in this thread, it might be 90% of the cards are useless. It does put a bad taste in my mouth when I buy some packs at my local hobby store and not pull enough cards to make the purchase worth it.

And this may be an inherit problem in all TCGs, but I think games like MTG and YGO may not have the problem as much because they don't use an evolution stacking system where the understages play a very little part in the overall game, where the focus is mostly on the highest stage of evolution.

Look at sets like Team Aqua/Team Magma/SP-related sets, and how many cool mechanics were introduced in sets based around mostly basic Pokemon. Remove the evolutions and suddenly 30%-40% of the set opens up for more options, allowing for cooler combos, which the whole game is about.

But back to the original topic.

TPCi has some great representatives that will sometimes come onto this forum and reply to the community. They are some great people. But don't get that confused with the idea of players having any control over how the game is produced behind the scenes, because they have none. And nothing players do will give them access to that control. If players don't like a product, don't buy it. That is the most control they have over a product. Even then, I doubt, even with a huge boycott of a product, that any changes would be made to future products that may already be designed and ready to print months before.