Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

More Cheating In Pokemon TCG lately

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Bilbo Baggins said:
If you see the bottom card, it can tell you how to play your next hand later (If you want to N or not / know he can't evolve next turn / last energy is on the bottom etc). Not really stacking per say, but being able to see the bottom card in the deck does provide lots of information. Same thing with the start of the game. Seeing your opponents deck type can result in what you choose active and more.

It is really something you do have to watch for.
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PFFFT! HAHAHAHA.

The chances of seeing anything remotely useful is pretty low. How would seeing the bottom card help you to know anything about the game state that could help you?
 
"hmmm I run one tool scrapper in my deck, oh look it's on the bottom, well I know I won't draw it off my juniper."
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
Simple reason to why it's coming out now. Prizes are now greater at the top and now smaller near the bottom. People these days really want the top prize, or to get prizes out of events and to do so they have to cheat.

Since more are cheating at more events, attention is drawn to it now.
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But that's 1 card right, I can see how It can be cheating if it was at the beginning of the game, and they happen to see blastoise.
In the middle of the game not so much, lets say it's a water energy or a Skyla, whatever. Unless they played multiple of the card at the bottom of their deck it... doesn't help. But yeah in SOME situations mid game it could help, Ie last blastoise, keldeo/ gym, ect.

But yeah earlier when people were mentioning this I was also thinking fossils, which no one plays. >.<
 
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r3skyline said:
Wow, some very very specific situations. Wish I always hit the card I need to see.
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It's not that looking at the bottom card of your deck provides a large expected amount of advantage any given time you do it; it's that doing it consistently across an event, with the number of shuffles per game in Pokemon, makes it likely that you'll accumulate significant unfair advantage over the course of the event. At a high level, games are won by achieving and compounding very small advantages. Atempting to gain additional small advantages through out of game actions that are against the rules does matter, and is cheating, even if a given action fails to produce advantage.
 
raxl said:
It's not that looking at the bottom card of your deck provides a large expected amount of advantage any given time you do it; it's that doing it consistently across an event, with the number of shuffles per game in Pokemon, makes it likely that you'll accumulate significant unfair advantage over the course of the event. At a high level, games are won by achieving and compounding very small advantages. Attempting to gain additional small advantages through out of game actions that are against the rules does matter, and is cheating, even if a given action fails to produce advantage.
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One would have to do it every single shuffle, and especially late game, to have any advantage. Remember it's 1 card. I am not saying people should do it to gain a 1 card per shuffle statistical/knowledge advantage because that is cheating.

Shuffling is another issue it is easy for people to see bottom cards then too, pile shuffling is a good alternative, but not after the entire double nickle thing was uncovered.
Maybe shuffling close to the table top is the best before a pile shuffle?
 
r3skyline said:
Wow, some very very specific situations. Wish I always hit the card I need to see.
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Then you've missed the point. The fact that you can gain any advantage off of that knowledge hurts the integrity of the tournament. It's a rules violation under any circumstances.
 
A bit of both, as pokepop said, they're not going to determine the extent of the cheat and how much it would affect the game. There's not a difference between cheating for minor advantage and cheating for major advantage. Either way you need to enforce the rules of the game.
 
I might as well weigh in:

I am not certain if there is more cheating so much as it is:

1) The older the game gets, the more room there is for experienced players - if Pokémon was your first serious attempt at playing a Pokémon TCG (as it was mine), soon you can have up to 15 years of experience.

2) Better dissemination of information means more players are aware of how people cheat and what to look out for; that is we may just be becoming better at catching it.

3) There is also the natural clash that comes with newbies versus veterans... the former may be cheating out of ignorance (simply having never played anyone that knew to correct them) while veterans might mistake new player mistakes for cheating... or themselves be tempted to cheat because they believe they can pull one over on the newbies.

There is also the advent amongst TCGs as a whole of what is called "soft cheating" by some; plays or tricks that are legal but frowned upon (the distracting opponent) or that are illegal but so difficult to prove you can get away with them.
 
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I'm surprised that the penalty guidelines use the word dubious. How does a judge decide if one's action was dubious? Do you have some examples? I'm completely blanking on what sort of thing this rule would refer to.
I've played decks in the past that could only be described as dubious and they definitely caused some opponents to misplay, but I don't think that would qualify.
 
Physics Squirrel said:
I'm surprised that the penalty guidelines use the word dubious. How does a judge decide if one's action was dubious? Do you have some examples? I'm completely blanking on what sort of thing this rule would refer to.
I've played decks in the past that could only be described as dubious and they definitely caused some opponents to misplay, but I don't think that would qualify.
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A good example?
People in 2008 when foreign cards were playable were allowed to carry translations with them, some of them carried Dusknoir(DP) in their translations while not playing it in their deck.

Would you play down more than 3 basics if you knew your opponent has a Dusknoir in their deck?

This was fixed later with changes in tournament guidelines, but hey it is just an example.
 
Another example of dubious was at US Nats 2 or 3 years ago. Michael Diaz in setup phase of a Top Cut game. His opponent placed a lone active and setup. After Diaz setup the opponent revealed that the "active Pokemon" was really just a basic energy and the he did not really have any basics in opening hand. Dubious action indeed.
 
- Player holds N in hand, shows to opponent. Says "do you know what this card does?"
- opponent shuffles in hand.
- Player calls judge, says "I never said I'm playing it, I just asked him if he knew what the card does", wants judge to give game loss to opponent.
- Judge gives game loss to player instead for "dubious play meant to deceive the opponent"
 
Abudoggie said:
Another example of dubious was at US Nats 2 or 3 years ago. Michael Diaz in setup phase of a Top Cut game. His opponent placed a lone active and setup. After Diaz setup the opponent revealed that the "active Pokemon" was really just a basic energy and the he did not really have any basics in opening hand. Dubious action indeed.
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This is exactly why the mulligan rules were clarified this season.
 
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