Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Mossy is at issue with a ruling at Nationals

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Moss Factor

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Mossy is at issue with a ruling

In Seena's T8 matchup, he had to go to the bathroom in between matches. He probably was gone maybe 3 minutes. BDS made a ruling (which I believe was correct under the floor rules) that if the match went to time (which is almost impossible to NOT happen in a 2/3 format) that Seena would lose. In the 3rd game, Seena was up 5-0 in prizes with very short time left on the clock. His opponent COULD have stalled him out, but chose not to and Seena was able to collect his final prize.

I've got an issue with this ruling. I think the floor rules need to be changed. When you're playing an elimination matchup that lasts an entire hour and you've got to go to the bathroom, you should be able to get an extension equal to the ammount of time you're gone. This doesn't need to be the case in swiss rounds, as there are a ton more people and you don't REALLY need a bathroom break because the rounds are half as long. The fact that Seena could be 1-1 in the series and be up 5-0 in prizes but still lose gives a HUGE edge to the other player, especially because the game will probably be on short time to begin with.

I don't see any negatives of giving an extension for time spent going to the bathroom. Lets be realistic here, its SotG and everyone knows it :smile:
 
nah moss, that would make too much sense =p

jk

but I think that should be done. Its like, oh i have to use the bathroom.

hold it in or lose =/

is that right?
 
Yep, I'd like to see that floor rule adjusted.
It was enforced at least twice that I know about.
 
Agreed, this is really a bit too strict. And imagine what would happen if a player had to go, but didn't leave the table, because of this rule. Sooner or later, something would have to give... (Talk about a bad mental image)
On a more serious note, I can see no real downside to amending this rule. As long as you give a time extension equal to the time lost, it's not like a player can stall out his opponent or anything. Since the games are an hour long, it's certainly possible for... problems to develop later on that were not present at the start of the round. It seems fair, and is most definatly under SotG. :thumb:
 
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Ditto... I'm more than willing to give a time extension to a match should someone have to take a bathroom break. I don't want a player having an accident just so they can make another round of single elimination. Don't say that won't happen, there's a certain STS match that comes to mind where the WotC guys were adamant that a player shouldn't be allowed to go to the bathroom.
 
Leaving a match, for whatever reason, can be disruptive to an opponent - thus the need for this rule to remain.

You need to look at this from the perspective of the opponent, not from Seena's perspective. Since there are no provisions in the rules for players to initiate a "time-out," players need to be assured that their opponents can't "eat clock" by unilaterally calling a pee-break.

Lame as it might seem to NOT give a time extension for a bathroom break, per the reasoning above, I can see why BDS choose the harsher approach. JMO.

BTW, this topic is better suited for the "Strategies..." section. :smile:
 
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Um steve, even for the opponent, it would be intelligent and reasonable to ammend it, think about it...through this example:

Player: Hey i need to use the restroom
Judge: ...Hold it in or lose sonny...you choose
Player: :frown:

Think of it like that, and why would they try to eat clock when an extenstion was given???

Just My Input, GJ Moss,

Tom
 
GymLeaderPhil said:
I don't want a player having an accident just so they can make another round of single elimination.
Click to expand...

I think maybe PUI have talked about exceptions for the 10- at judge discretion. Everyone else should take a break at the end of the prior match. As a TO I'm more than happy to hold a match start in finals for a player who lets me know he/she is going to the head. As a player I'm not happy to have my opponent get up in the middle of elimination rounds for any less than catastrophic reason.
 
Leaving a match, for whatever reason, can be disruptive to an opponent - thus the need for this rule to remain.

You need to look at this from the perspective of the opponent, not from Seena's perspective. Since there are no provisions in the rules for players to initiate a "time-out," players need to be assured that their opponents can't "eat clock" by unilaterally calling a pee-break.
Click to expand...
As far as the disruption factor is concerned, I think its a MUCH greater distraction to the player who has to go to the bathroom than the player who has to wait a couple extra minutes.

Besides, I only suggested this alteration in the rules for 2/3 playoff matches that are an hour long. If its a 30 minute match, you should be able to hold it. Not necessarily so for hour long playoffs. If in between games you call a judge to keep track of the time taken to go to the bathroom and then add an extension on, I don't see how you can possibly say that is illegit.

For the record I believe the currect rules are the way BDS ruled it-- he was neither harsh nor leniant, he just followed the rules (I believe, Pooka told me this, if he's lying, attack him).
 
I'm still not sure which side I support on this issue. For the record, after consulting with PUI, we began issuing a time extension to make sure the match was not shortened when a player chose to go to the bathroom. The player who leaves in the middle of a match is still considered Tardy, but the match is not shortened. This eliminates the issue of a player leaving the match after winning the first game, staying away until there is not enough time to complete another game, thereby winning because an incomplete second game is not counted, even is there is a Tardy involved.

While I still have not made up my mind completely, I guess I find it difficult to believe that a player cannot make it through a one hour match without a bathroom break. There is ample time between each round to visit the bathroom. Once the round starts, play should continue until a winner is determined. Of course there are a few exceptions like a 10- that does not plan ahead, or someone with a medical problem, but a Judge can certainly use their discretion to deal with those.

This is a good topic for discussion Moss. Thanks for posting it and getting some discussion going. :thumb:

BDS
 
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I think if a person should go to the bathroom, then their bag should remain at the table to avoid any chance of cheating.

Other than that, if asked for, a time extension should be granted.

-James
 
Big Daddy Snorlax said:
I'm still not sure which side I support on this issue. For the record, after consulting with PUI, we began issuing a time extension to make sure the match was not shortened when a player chose to go to the bathroom. The player who leaves in the middle of a match is still considered Tardy, but the match is not shortened. This eliminates the issue of a player leaving the match after winning the first game, staying away until there is not enough time to complete another game, thereby winning because an incomplete second game is not counted, even is there is a Tardy involved.



BDS
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I think you could tell tho if they were just trying to stay away for an incredibly long time so there isn't time to finish the game. I mean like they'd have to be gone at least 15-20 minutes probably to make that an issue. In which case it's obvious what they're trying to do. However how is giving a five minute extension to a match a problem for someone to go to the bathroom or how ever long they take to go? I mean I know the majority of the players can hold it, but there are times where it just can come out of no where and your eyes start turnin yellow and ya feel like your gonna burst =p. I don't think it's fair to make someone decide between going to the bathroom or playing the game. I mean obviously they'd RATHER play the game. As long as everything of theirs is at the table so the judge can make sure nothing is changed... I don't see a problem.
 
Don't the current floor rules allow a judge to give a penalty to the player who has to depart and also assign a time extension?
 
I think that the rule applies to absences without the judge's permission. If you call the judge and get his or her permission first then no penalty should apply.
 
Guys, what you say makes perfect sense ( for the most part ). But Seena was playing pretty slow game one ( a game he had in hand btw) , Steve said something to the judges about his "slow play ( not gonna use the "s" word , but you get my drift.) and they acted accordingly.

Compound this with the bathroom fiasco and i think you have the reason you do for the stiff penalty if that match went to time. Could have cost seena his national championship vs. any other opponent, but - to his credit- Steve did the right thing. Remember , the match was under a minute left so playing that celios would have won him the game
for Steven ( and the match )

But what kind of "win" is that when your opponent has hit like EVERY er2 and reversal on you and your down 5-0 on prizes. One squirtle couldn't accept. He didn the right thing and i'm proud of him for it.

But, because a lot of really good players have since piped up about their stance on this ( stalling ) , obv. things need to be changed. Kills me how many "respected" players acknowledge they use this as part of their way to win then justify doing it because of what is one the line, Steve had t-4 and scholorship cash on the line but INSTEAD chose to use SOTG and offer his hand in congrats. to seena.

As for needing to use the bathroom, they do give us enough time in between turns to do so. But, under normal circumstances i don't c giving an extention for it when you just "gotta go: :) being an issue .
Beats your opponent crapping themselves doesn't it lol

But if it is used as some sort of stalling tactic, the what BDS did was more than appropriate imo.

~ John ~
 
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An easier solution would be to allow a 5 minute "break" between games, and therefore make it up to a 1 hour 10 minute time limit.

That 5 minutes can be used for bathroom, shuffling, tears (yeah, it happens), getting a drink (Moss) or whatever is needed.

It would add no more than 10 minutes to the match, and would be the humane thing to do.

M45
 
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come on people if we want changes we gotta pee on somebodys leg jk,but i agree it would be good to change that rule IMO :biggrin:
 
In the words of Arnold (Kindergarten Cop):

"There is no bathroom!"

Earlier this year at a LOTR tournament in Vegas, a player actually pooped his pants during a match. So yah Matt, I can see how NOT letting your opponent use the potty can be more disruptive.

I'm still of the oppinion that bathroom breaks during a match are NOT a player's right. (Bad example) Heck, the other day during an intense part of "War of the Worlds" I had to run to the bathroom. They didn't pause the movie for me, or give me an extension.

Use the bathroom on your own time, or start wearing "Oooops, I Crapped My Pants" adult diapers.

:biggrin: :tongue:
 
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