Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

New to Pokemon, experienced Magic player. Need assistance with which precons to buy

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verlorene

New Member
Hello, I have been playing Magic on and off since '95. This weekend after getting back from a Vintage (Type 1) tournament I was at my girlfriend's house and her nephew taught me how to play Pokemon. Currently there are only 2 decks at that house, his deck which is the the preconstructed Shaymin deck (grass / fire) along with cards from packs and her brothers deck which is (electric / psychic)...I had fun playing with the pyschic pokemon and ones with low retreat costs. I did a bit of research on popular decktypes and one that really caught my eye were the Dusknoir decks.

Instead of just buying all the singles on ebay for Tier1/2 decks and have a huge advantage, I'd rather buy some precons and packs and make whatever I can with that since it would be more fair. My problem is in deciding which preconstructed decks to start with. My little brother has cards from the 1st series to Fossil but I was told they only use cards from the newer sets because the old ones are unfair.

In Magic I prefer to play Blue/Black control cards (counterspell & discard) / deck manipulation & tutoring / and things that can affect many things at once (whether it be damage or bounce). Generally not speedy (if risky) or guys that are nukers at the expense of being fragile. I also play combo but that dosent appear to translate well into the Pokemon TCG.

This probably wont help at all but I played characters with similar attributes in World of Warcraft: resto druid (heal over time, crowd control), frost mage (slowing, area of effect, protection, crowd control, counterspell), and affliction warlock (damage over time, crowd control).

From what I know about the Pokemon TCG analogies would be:
area of effect = putting damage counters on multiple pokemon (I think this would be most fun)
counterspell = nothing like this
discard = I have seen some cards that discard from hand to discard pile
crowd control = sleep/stun
damage over time = affliction counter that affect pokemon between turns
tutoring = trainer search cards
card draw = self explanitory
protection/heal = tanks and pokemon that can remove afflictions / counters

I have 4 main questions:
1.) What types of energy should I focus on building decks around given the types of strats I like to play? I understand things like heal wont go with the other
2.) Given $65-70 which preconstructed decks / packs would you buy to play casually? I was thinking of starting with Stormfront Theme Deck Set - Gyrados Raging Sea + Tyranitar Dark Rampage and then I'm not sure on which other 2 pack I should buy.
3.) Are their any precons / packs that I should get to start making something in the style of the Dusknoir damage speading decks?
4.) Which types of energies have Pokemon that can do the following:
? = putting damage counters on multiple pokemon (I think this would be most fun)
? = discard (I have seen some cards that discard from hand to discard pile)
? = sleep/stun/prevent retreat
? = affliction counter that affect pokemon between turns
? = tanks that soak up damage while other pokemon build up
? = card draw
? = pokemon that can remove afflictions / counters

If multiple energy types can do each of those that would be good to know.

I'm not bound to any specific energy type yet. I'd like to get a couple decks started, thats one of the reasons I'd be willing to buy a couple preconstructed decks. I'd be able to build on those once I get the cards. One thing I have been having trouble finding is what attributes are associated with each of the energies. Any help in linking those to energy types would be greatly appreciated.

Tenatively I have decided on 3 versus preconstructed decks to buy in addition to packs.
- Stormfront Theme Deck Set (Gyrados & Tyranitar)
- Platinum Supreme Victors (Milotic & Arcanine)
- Diamond & Pearl III - Secret Wonders (Powerhouse & Lavaflow)

Note: I do plan on buying a few singles like Stormfront packs, multiple multi energies, Rare Candy, and other cards that allow and search for creature chains and instant evolutions ... these are not part of my budget.
 
The interesting thing about Pokémon in comparison to Magic is that energy type has much less of an influence than the individual Pokémon itself. There is no basis to say that "a Pokémon of X color is stronger than Y color", unlike with Magic where you usually see Green creatures being stronger than say, White ones.

As far as effect trends, I can think of a few that pop up from time to time. Fire types usually have attacks that discard energy, Grass types tend to manipulate status effects/attach extra energy, Water types tend to do damage to multiple Pokémon (spread), Lightning types tend to damage themselves, Psychic types mess with hands/powers, Steel types prevent/reduce damage... can't think of a solid trend for Fighting or Dark types off hand. Again, this is all very general and it's not entirely uncommon to see different effects or those effects outside of their type.

If you like the way Dusknoir works, then Stormfront is an excellent pack choice for you to pick up since the set is great and that's where he is anyways. What you'll probably find as you play more of this TCG is that it's very hard to "root" yourself into one or two color choices. Down the line, you'll end up wanting to have enough energy to use any type of deck (and trust me, this is much cheaper and easier to do than having to pay for all sorts of dual lands/reflecting pool/etc).
 
verlorene said:
From what I know about the Pokemon TCG analogies would be:
area of effect = putting damage counters on multiple pokemon (I think this would be most fun)
counterspell = nothing like this
discard = I have seen some cards that discard from hand to discard pile
crowd control = sleep/stun
damage over time = affliction counter that affect pokemon between turns
tutoring = trainer search cards
card draw = self explanitory
protection/heal = tanks and pokemon that can remove afflictions / counters
Click to expand...

Not sure about anything casual, but here's my competitive comparisons to each of the above listed.

AoE = spread (as you said). spread is typically not a very effective tactic at the moment but Palkia G and Gallade 4 Lv. X combo pretty well to spread.

Counterspell = Power Spray. This means you need to play SP's if you want to play this card.

Discard = Flygon Lv. X is the only competitive card that has a discard effect, but Flygon is a very competitive deck right now.

DoT = nothing really besides poison, which has never really worked as a deck strategy

Tutoring = already explained

Card Draw = Claydol and Uxie are both found in Stage 2 decks, while typically only Uxie is found in SP decks, albeit in higher quantities.

Protection/Heal = Nidoqueen, often played in combination with Gengar.
 
Combo decks do translate into the Pokemon TCG, but only at a higher level of competitive play, and not to the extent where they guarantee you the game if you get the combo out. Generally, however, if your combo is sound, it will give you a large advantage throughout the game, thus tipping the odds in your favor. I right now am running a deck that focuses on utilizing a combo to get fast and easy prizes to take the game early and disrupt the opponent's setup at the same time, which if done correctly is devastating to any deck.
 
verlorene said:
Instead of just buying all the singles on ebay for Tier1/2 decks and have a huge advantage, I'd rather buy some precons and packs and make whatever I can with that since it would be more fair.
Click to expand...
Fair to who? I think by limiting yourself, you're actually being unfair--to yourself. If you're experienced in another CCG, you'll soon become frustrated when your cards are holding you back. And who do you think you'll have a huge advantage over? Will you only be playing your girlfriend's nephews?

That's not to say you shouldn't buy any preconstructed decks. They can be a good value and you'll need those energy cards. But I'm not sure you should waste your time or money trying to build a deck out of them.

As to which type of deck--I don't know anything about Magic, but based on the mechanics that you seem to find interesting, I do think Dusknoir would be a good choice.
 
In Magic I prefer to play Blue/Black control cards (counterspell & discard) / deck manipulation & tutoring / and things that can affect many things at once (whether it be damage or bounce). Generally not speedy (if risky) or guys that are nukers at the expense of being fragile. I also play combo but that dosent appear to translate well into the Pokemon TCG.
Click to expand...

Fragile, hard-hitting pokemon are the SP pokemon in Pokemon. They often hit very hard, but have key drawbacks and weaknesses (pokemon like Machamp SF can knock out an SP pokemon outright for 1 energy for example). There are some control/"lock" decks out right now (we use the term locking for the stopping of pokemon powers- the main source of movement and card draw/search).

A card you might like is Palkia G lv X. Although he is an SP pokemon, he has extremely versatile attacks. Pearl Breath does damage to the active while spreading to the bench, he has an attack to hit the active and move your palkia to the bench, and an 80 damage snipe attack- along with a poke power that is utterly amazing.

Combine Palkia G lv X with cards like Mesprit LA, Uxie LA, Crobat G, etc and you can see the devestating combos.

You've already expressed a like for psychic pokemon. Some good psychic decks are:

Gengar/Machamp- the killer of SP pokemon, and Gengar gets stronger very soon when they release 2 new Gengars and a new Gengar lv X
Gengar/Nidoqueen- exploit the free retreat and healing of nidoqueen to deny prizes
GG- Gardevoir/Gallade- both evolve from the same basic- ralts, and this deck has been brutal for 3 years now. Psychic Lock is the BEST ATTACK IN THE GAME.
Dusknoir- very popular this time last year, but slowly faded. This deck is good, but not GREAT. You can still do well with it, but there are many problems the deck faces: Unown G, dark pokemon, power spray, and expensive attack costs
Gallade 4 lv X- He works with other pokemon like Luxray X, Manectric PL, Palkia G, etc to spread damage and 2-shot almost everything.

http://pokegym.net/tower/

Ctrl+F any unfamiliar pokemon.
 
In Magic I prefer to play Blue/Black control cards (counterspell & discard) / deck manipulation & tutoring / and things that can affect many things at once (whether it be damage or bounce). Generally not speedy (if risky) or guys that are nukers at the expense of being fragile. I also play combo but that dosent appear to translate well into the Pokemon TCG.
Click to expand...

You sound kind of like I did when I made the transition, except substitute blue for white (My primary deck upon leaving the game was a B/W Orzhov deck utilizing early aggro and late game control. Sold for around 120 dollars at Gencon). Pokemon isn't ENTIRELY like Magic in which specific colors/types do specific things, but it does carry a similarity (Its not nearly as strong to speak), for instance in Magic, we all know each of the 5 colors has a specific kind of thing to it, melding into each other with the gold cards.

Black: death, field destruction, target destruction, life drain, discard, etc.
White: Quick movement, integrates weak, but fast hitting cards for quick beatdown, also healing properties and damage prevention.
Blue: Pure control over the field. Very little aggression, but frustrating to no end.
Red: Direct damage to the extreme. Hits quickly, hits fast, and usually for little mana. Typical keywords involve Haste.
Green: Usually involves quicker generation of mana for its bigger, but incredibly powerful creatures. Trample is commonly seen.

You obviously know all of this. And Pokemon KIND of takes a similar route. For instance, you'll see a lot of similar mechanics in the Psychic type as to what you currently play in Magic (As ryan stated above), its a very trick oriented typing, but very controlling (Dark palm on Dusknoir, Psychic Lock on Gardevoir, the Psychic Bind power from Mesprit), to both you and your opponent (It will assist your card draw and hinder their powers.), and most players coming from Magic will typically see the Psychic type (and sometimes Water) as their primary choices.

As for discard strategies, they might work on the most noobish players as burning yourself out of draw in this game is a VERY bad thing, as you start to run out of outs to get what you need, and you'll start whiffing on top decks, which is also not a good thing. There is no hindrance to having too many cards in your hand (except maybe against Gengar with Poltergeist) and draw is a must in any high end deck. Discard was used a little bit in the 07-08 season with Absol, however, he was quickly remedied by Claydol, which put his frustrating annoy strategy to waste. Its always nice as a side strategy, but so long as heavy draw like Uxie and Claydol exist, its not a viable option as a primary strategy.
 
To be honest with buying theme decks, the only one worth buying in my opinion is the new Supreme Victors one that has 2 Roseanne's Research. The lists are on the back of the theme deck. Roseanne's is a staple in the game, and you cant get them anywhere. Even on ebay it's like a $5 uncommon. So paying $12 for a theme deck that has 2 almost pays for itself.
 
Fresko21 said:
To be honest with buying theme decks, the only one worth buying in my opinion is the new Supreme Victors one that has 2 Roseanne's Research. The lists are on the back of the theme deck. Roseanne's is a staple in the game, and you cant get them anywhere. Even on ebay it's like a $5 uncommon. So paying $12 for a theme deck that has 2 almost pays for itself.
Click to expand...

Do you know what deck those are in? I have seen some sites sell the 2 deck sets broken up. If possible, I'd like to buy just the one I need. Or is one in each deck? I have tried looking for deck lists online but have had no luck, also the nearest gaming store does not sell pokemon precons so I dont have a physical box to look at.
 
I believe that the deck that contains 2 Roseanne's is both the Electivire SW precon deck and the new SV one (not sure which).
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback/suggestions. Based on the suggestions I just placed an order for:


2x @ $17.99/each Stormfront Theme Deck Set (Dark Rampage & Raging Sea)

2x @ $18.99/each Rising Rivals Theme Deck Set (Cutting Edge & Drill Point)

2x @ $10.99/each Supreme Victors - Overflow Theme Deck (the 4x total Roseanne's Research make it almost the same price as buying them as singles from ebay)

2x @ $11.99/each Secret Wonders - Powerhouse Theme Deck (same reasoning as above here)

I also ordered some assorted singles from ebay, couldnt find Buy It Now auctions for Uxie LA and Claydol GE =( I hate doing the auctions where you have to wait but it looks like I might have to.

I am also considering getting the set of 2008 World Championship deck now and the 2009 World Championship decks when they come out. I know these are not tournament legal but I expect to mostly be playing casually and these fully tweaked / tested decks would be a nice change from "work in progress" decks. Are thier any game mechanic difference between the 2008 WC decks and the updated rules (I dont know when these came into effect)?
 
4 Decks to work on

I bought 2 of each of the decks I listed in the post above. So I will have doubles of good cards that are only included as a one of in each of the decks. I found all of the deck lists and did a little text manipulation in Excel ;-) Here is what I now have access to due to me buying doubles of each of the decks. Now I just need to work out what how I am going to merge the cards.

I have also purchased the following from ebay. Extras that I wont use I will give to my gf's nephew.
4x RISING RIVALS - Gengar #40
20x POWER KEEPERS - Warp Energy #95
2x RISING RIVALS - Beedrill #15
2x GREAT ENCOUNTERS IV - Beedrill #13
12x RISING RIVALS - Lucian's Assignment #92
8x RISING RIVALS - SP ENERGY CARD #101
15x RISING RIVALS - Bebe's Search #89
16x RISING RIVALS - Volkner's Philosophy #98
4x PLATINUM - Cyrus's Conspiracy #105
1x SUPREME VICTORS - Palmer's Contribution #139
I'm also looking at Kristi's Collectors Clubhouse on eBay since I havent paid yet and I have free shipping for anything else I add on.

I plan on trying to work with the first 4 decks to start (with the Pokemon after it as the focus of the deck) and use the last 2 with the "?" after the deck name to supplement the others with any cards that might be usable from them. Any help would be appreciated with suggestions on the first 4 decks...I dont know if the others are even worth messing with.

Drill Point - Flygon
2x Rhyperior 四
2x Flygon
4x Vibrava
8x Trapinch
4x Hippowdon 四
2x Hippowdon
8x Hippopotas
4x Starmie
8x Staryu
8x Aerodactyl GL
4x Potion
4x Switch
2x Aaron's Collection
4x Bebe's Search
4x Felicity's Drawing
4x Volkner's Philosophy
24x Water Energy
24x Fighting Energy

Cutting Edge - Beedrill
2x Gallade 四
2x Beedrill
4x Kakuna
8x Weedle
2x Mr. Mime 四
4x Gengar GL
4x Leafeon
8x Eevee
4x Weezing
8x Koffing
4x Seedot
4x Energy Search
4x Potion
2x Aaron's Collection
4x Lucian's Assignment
4x Mom's Kindness
4x Underground Expedition
22x Grass Energy
26x Psychic Energy

Dark Rampage - Tyranitar
2x Tyranitar
4x Pupitar
8x Larvitar
2x Staraptor
4x Staravia
8x Starly
2x Skuntank
8x Stunky
8x Machop
4x Bagon
4x Energy Search
4x Potion
4x Cynthia's Feelings
4x Energy Switch
4x Great Ball
2x Luxury Ball
26x Basic Dark Energy
22x Fighting Energy

Raging Sea - Gyarados
2x Gyarados
8x Magikarp
2x Sceptile
4x Grovyle
8x Treecko
2x Abomasnow
8x Snover
4x Bibarel
8x Bidoof
4x Finneon
4x Potion
4x Switch
4x Mom's Kindness
4x Energy Switch
4x Dusk Ball
2x Luxury Ball
30x Water Energy
18x Grass Energy

-------------------------------------------

Overflow - ?
2x Milotic C
4x Spiritomb C
2x Roserade C
2x Swampert
4x Marshtomp
8x Mudkip
4x Floatzel
8x Buizel
6x Corphish
6x Croagunk
4x Cynrhia's Feelings
4x Roseanne's Research
2x Night Teleporter
4x Potion
4x Switch
30x Water Energy
18x Psychic Energy

Powerhouse - ?
2x Electivire
8x Electabuzz
2x Ampharos
4x Flaffy
8x Mareep
4x Donphan
8x Phanpy
6x Stantler
2x Electrode
8x Voltorb
4x Professor Oak's Visit
4x Roseanne's Research
4x Plus Power
4x Energy Search
4x Potion
32x Lightning Energy
16x Fighting Energy
 
You should note that the amount of cards you are required to have in your deck is 60. No more, no less.
 
No more than 4 of any card. So only 4 Treecko, etc...and no more than 60 like the poster above said. Figure out who your main attack line is and then just lower the counts of the other lines or leave them out completely.

Also, same sleeve your decks and you can move the Roseannes around. they are a staple in almost any deck that get you basic pokemon or basic energy. Remove some energy to fit them in your lists...

Good luck
 
lordholly said:
No more than 4 of any card.
Click to expand...

That, obviously, excludes Basic Energy cards. You can't have more than 4 of any card with the same name. The Pokemon-SP with the symbols G, GL, FB, 4, and C are part of the name, but the level is NOT part of the name (e.g. you could have 2 Raichu Lv. 40 and 2 Raichu Lv. X, but not 3 Raichu Lv. 40 and 2 Raichu Lv. X). Note that Warp Energy is a Special Energy card, and so you can only have 4 of it in your deck. Currently, it hasn't been printed in a Modified-legal set anyway, so you'd be unable to use it in a tournament.

For a preliminary deck, I recommend having a structure that has 20 Pokemon, 20 Energy, and 20 Supporter/Stadium/Trainer cards. As you get more experienced, most decks remove some Pokemon and Energy to add more Supporter/Stadium/Trainer cards.
 
as a current casual magic player ( i love elder dragon highlander) if you liked to play BU control you want to play a Blaziken FB X/Luxray X deck or a Infernape spX/Luxray X deck, its got control ( poewr spray our counter spell) speed which is needed in this format and many other great options such as spread, another option is a deck called legos Palkia G X and dialga G X which is also a great deck at controlling the board it has spread removal and control also it can use power spray and ABUSSES Mesprirt which will shut off powers durring your opps next turn. for a old school Yavamiya fires deck Speedrill ( a fast Beedrill deck is good here) the problem with dusknoir is its to hard to setup and still be fast and competative. early game is important in this game moreso than in magic where BU just wants to hit land drops, and theres a TON of draw/tutoring for every color. PM me if you wanna talk more
 
uhm... he's just purchased like TEN COPIES of the Rulebook :/
(there's a how-to-play/rules book in EACH theme deck )

Dude should be straight for a min with the basics.

To the original poster , you play magic, so you HAVE to know that the BEST way to get strong cards is... buying a Box of boosters. The theme decks were a GOOD idea because they will give you ENERGY CARDS which aren't ever in the booster packs. Now, you have more than enough energy cards. It's just a matter of getting a good combo idea with Pokemon and having them in your collection to build out the idea.
 
I just wanted to throw it out there that Pokemon isn't really focused on the types. In Magic (and other games that use a color/alliance, etc. system) it seems as if there's a strong focus on keeping good cards in each type and having a definition of what each type does. In Pokemon, although there are some traits that present in a lot of cards of a given type, it's more about what deck you want to play and what kind of strategy you want to use over the type you're using. That's how I see it, anyway.

Welcome to the game!
 
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