Note Taking with Time Walk

[rroaryh]

Edwarpy and Rogue_Archetype - I don't feel attacked bashed or put down. I opened the can of worms to see if people were upset and how they felt about it and to try to get some reasoning into it. I felt I got many more "this is how you can get around that" which is dissapointing, but oh well.

Interesting question because I sparked this in out VA BR thread. IF my Mesprit lvl X is prized, cant i just write Mesprit down. Lv X is not part of the cards name. THe same would be true for different cards of the same name, such as Infernape. THere are multiple infernape, but certainly I dont need to let em know WHICH. This applies to that limited information bit, interesting it think.

Ror

 

[Eeveeac]

When I was told I could take notes, I was really happy, and would write two-letter abrviations I made up on the spot when I time walked. Now that I've heard this, I'll never be taking notes again, there's no point. I'm not gonna do anything or try and debunk anyones desicions, it's not my place to do so, but this truley seems like a pointless ruling to me......

LATER ADDITION: You know, now that I think about it, the abbriviations made sense at the moment I wrote them (ie: DU=Defense Up= Spcl.Metal) but when I went to draw a prize, I could never remember what they ment. Lol!

 

[Freezepop]

Mike Liesik was very clear.
We asked a few different questions to be certain.
The upshot is, if you're writing notes, those notes must be clear and understandable to the opponent.
No code.
If you don't want them knowing something, best not to write it down as notes.

what if it's abbreviations? do you have to tell them what they mean?

 

[PokePop]

what if it's abbreviations? do you have to tell them what they mean?

That's the understandable part.
You would need to tell them what the abbreviation stands for.

 

[G-Dog4377]

POP is not doing this to be fair to all players not to censor you. Taking notes is an option. If you choose to use that option then POP needs to guarantee that it does not give one player an unfair advantage.

That first sentence did not quite come out right, but I think I get it. Now maybe I am missing something big, but what sort of advantage can taking notes during a match give you? It's not like what you write does anything in the game. If anything, it splits your concentration and gives you a disadvantage. I am not seeing why this sort of restriction is necessary at all. It would be much appreciated if someone could clarify this for me. Thank you.

 

[Crosplat]

That first sentence did not quite come out right, but I think I get it. Now maybe I am missing something big, but what sort of advantage can taking notes during a match give you? It's not like what you write does anything in the game. If anything, it splits your concentration and gives you a disadvantage. I am not seeing why this sort of restriction is necessary at all. It would be much appreciated if someone could clarify this for me. Thank you.

G-Dog, I can explain this in more detail if you want, but the idea with restrictions is that you could write totally bogus prizes, like 1 Dusknoir prized, just for the sake of totally messing with their head. That is unsportsmanlike because you are lying, and lying is bad in pokemon. The notes also have to be accessible to both people, which means that they have to be accurate and your opponent has to understand them. What this rule is meant to do is prevent mind games.

You can write anything as long as it is accurate, and your opponent can read and understand what it means.

 

[FutureTrainer]

It seems my previous post wasn't clear. When I mentioned Pokemon X i ment that I would write the name of the pokemon, whatever happens to be Pokemon X in my deck. So here is a realistic scenario. Are all these options legal?

I just played Time Walk and put an Electric Energy in my prizes to replace a Pokemon. These are my prizes in order (Left to right)

Prizes in order:
Pikachu
Rotom
Electric Energy
Electric Energy
Quck Ball
Rare Candy

Option 1 - Just write them all down in order. No code, just card names.
Prizes: Pikachu, Rotom, Electric Energy, Electric Energy, Quck Ball, Rare Candy


Option 2 - partial list of the cards that I think I'd forget which order they are in
Prizes: Pikachu, Quick Ball, Rare Candy


Option 3 - Full list with just the card type
Prizes: Pokemon, Pokemon, Energy, Energy, Trainer, Trainer


Confused player just want's to understand the guidelines,
Jeff

 

[PokePop]

That all sounds fine

 

[Heatherdu]

That first sentence did not quite come out right, but I think I get it. Now maybe I am missing something big, but what sort of advantage can taking notes during a match give you? It's not like what you write does anything in the game. If anything, it splits your concentration and gives you a disadvantage. I am not seeing why this sort of restriction is necessary at all. It would be much appreciated if someone could clarify this for me. Thank you.

Oops, you are right. Too many 'not's in my post. I'll fix it. Thanks.

But I do think that note taking can be an advantage. As 'Pop mentioned the best players at Worlds do not usually take notes because they can remember this sort of information easily. But other players need a tool (notes) to help them remember. Say I used Time Walk and I know there is a Premier Ball in my prizes and I really want it to grab my Lv X from my discard pile but I cannot remember WHICH prize card it is? Oh, I'll check my notes. That extra information from my notes lets me get the correct card and that would be an advantage since I can now grab my Lv X. Note taking is legal though so to make it fair both players get to see the notes. If my notes said 'Premier Ball' then my opponent may have guessed that I picked that prize and try to play Wager or something to get it out of my hand. That would essentially cross-out the advantage. If my notes say 'Trainer,' my opponent may still figure it out and try to play against it. But if my notes said 'Grab' and I had not explained that it is code for 'go grab a Lv X' it would be an advantage to me. Hence, no codes or deceitfulness in the notes. If I choose to take notes then it is only fair that the notes be honest and common game knowledge.

 

[smacktack15]

I've been briefly reading through this thread and I guess I will share my trick...

(This only works if you remember your complete deck)

Use Time Walk...
Place the remaining Prizes back in alphabetical order like this...

A B

C D

E F

A = Axelf Lv.X
B = Bebes Search
C = Call Energy
D = Psychic Energy
E = Roseannes Research
F = Uxie

(The example is from a fictional AMU deck:lol

Another trick is to place identical Prizes on top of each other

(Here is another example...)

A B&C

D&E F

A = Claydol
B&C = Fighting Energy
D&E = Metal Energy
F = Roseannes Research

(Random Fictional Deck)

The 2nd method uses matching and alphabetical order.

No Notes Needed!!!

Hope these were helpful, because they help me

 

[DreamChaser AJ]

Yes, as far as I know (except worlds) it doesn't matter how you have your prize cards arranged as long as it is obvious those are your prize cards. So you could make a triangle with certain prizes angled certain ways.

BUT you need to have all prizes visible. So don't do it in a fasion that hides prize cards.

 

[G-Dog4377]

But I do think that note taking can be an advantage. As 'Pop mentioned the best players at Worlds do not usually take notes because they can remember this sort of information easily. But other players need a tool (notes) to help them remember. Say I used Time Walk and I know there is a Premier Ball in my prizes and I really want it to grab my Lv X from my discard pile but I cannot remember WHICH prize card it is? Oh, I'll check my notes. That extra information from my notes lets me get the correct card and that would be an advantage since I can now grab my Lv X....Hence, no codes or deceitfulness in the notes. If I choose to take notes then it is only fair that the notes be honest and common game knowledge.

Hmmmm...I see what you are saying, but I just don't agree with it. Time Walk allowed you to see your prizes in the first place, so knowing what they are is an advantage afforded you by using the power to begin with. It does not say in the text that your opponent must be shown the prizes either, except for a pokemon you may take from the prizes, so I don't like that you are required to let your opponent know what it is just because you have a lousy memory and want to write it down. If you want to remember where that Premier Ball was, I'd say by all means go ahead and write it down. That is in my estimation an advantage granted you by Time Walk, just as skipping a Stage 1 and evolving a Basic into a Stage 2 is an advantage Rare Cany gives you. As far as using code, your opponent does not have to pay any attention to what you write. In fact, your opponent does not even have to see what you write, because it can't physically change the game state anyway. These are just my feelings on the subject.

 

[Grant]

If you choose to use that option then POP needs to guarantee that it does not give one player an unfair advantage.

If notes were private (Or code, etc was allowed), how would that possibly give one player an unfair advantage? There would be nothing stopping the other player from taking their own notes (Or writing in their own code, etc)...

On another note (lol, note), can I write things not necessarily related to game-state in my notes, ie "Does John tech an Empoleon?," "Ask John where he got his sleeves," etc? If so, can I put John even if that's not my opponent's name?

 

[PokePop]

that's the point.
Notes are NOT private.

 

[G-Dog4377]

Ohh, I don't know about that. They can be private if you wanted them to be. You can make them public, but there is no all knowing truth that says notes have to be public.

 

[edwarpy]

Ok, maybe going a bit overboard here, but trying to make a point and understand....

Why are the results of Time Walk with my-own-note-taking-system such an outrageous advantage?

I dared to played Azelf, why shouldn't I gain, why MUST my opponent get my notes?
Are we just trying to hang on to the original note taking rule at all cost? Would it really be so
bad if I knew and my opponent didn't?

<sarcasm>
The contents of my hand are secret! This constitutes a crazy advantage! All games
therefore must be played hand-face-up, it would be unfair if your opponent did not know
what you were holding! It's cheating! Quit gaming the system.
</sarcasm>

I think this is what seems unreasonable to players. To those who say "What's the big
deal, show your notes.", I say, "What's the big deal, none ya business, *I* played Azelf",
why shouldn't that gain me an advantage?

In the spirit of rroaryh's original question, I'd appreciate logical discussions rather than
'cause-thats-how-it-is' sledgehammers.

Added: If, on the other hand, all we have is "that's how it is", that's ok with me too.

 

[Heatherdu]

In my opinion, the prizes are similar to your deck and not your hand. Yes, the content of none of the three (deck, hand, prizes) are common knowledge in the game. Unlike your hand, you do not get to look at the contents of your deck or prizes anytime that you want to. In some situations, for example Bebe's Search for your deck and Time Walk for your prizes, you do get to search through them and you can gather information that can help you in your current match. That's part of the game and it is smart playing practice. But you need to remember from game to game what you saw in your deck or in your prizes. Some players are very good at remembering all the details and know what is in their deck plus how many Empoleon the opponent has already played and many other things. Some players are not. For those players that are not good at remembering, there is the option of taking notes about the prizes when you play Time Walk. If you cannot remember them or the order then being able to write them down is an advantage because it is extra help for you. So, to me, at this point your notes become similar to your discard pile. If you cannot remember what is in there then you are allowed to look but so is your opponent.

Personally, I do not like the note taking about Time Walk. I think the intent of Time Walk was to give you the knowledge of your prizes but not your opponent or the 'game.' But, there are rules in place for note taking and therefore if you choose to write them down I agree that the rules state that your opponent can read them too.

 

[PokePop]

Ohh, I don't know about that. They can be private if you wanted them to be. You can make them public, but there is no all knowing truth that says notes have to be public.

Yes, there is an all-knowing truth that says they have to be public.
His name is Mike Liesik and he writes the POP floor rules.


No one is forcing anyone to take notes.

The rule for note taking is NOT there to help you remember things during the game.
Per Mike L, its sole purpose is to help people write up reports for sites like this.
That's it.
I suspect that if people have a problem with understanding that, POP may just decide to toss the darn rule and be done with it.
That's your "end-game" here folks.
Better start considering where things will go if you keep pushing it.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

PokePop

Please consider WHO the dead-horse beaters are... kids.
I would be remiss if you allowed the kids to get under your skin.
They are just driving the topic onward without reading previously posted discussion for the sake of entertainment and attention...

In OUR terms: They're talking just to be saying something, but not talking because they have something to say.

That's the downfall of a message board discussion; things go WAY BEYOND where they need to go.

Most of us Masters. . . get it.
There's a rule.
So... there's REALLY not a necessity for deep reasoning or profound rationale.

It's just... that's how it is and that's how it's gonna be. or.. don't play.

BUT... kids don't have the life experience to understand "that's how it is."
They're still in "BUT WHY??" mode.

PokePop. I'd suggest you not even return to this thread if it's getting on your nerves like that because the ones that WANTED the explanation(s) got it/them about 17 posts ago...
Your mission is accomplished here.

Now... on a side note... THIS WAS AN AWESOME (intelligently stated) response!!!

________ my favorite response _________

If you cannot remember them or the order then being able to write them down is an advantage because it is extra help for you. So, to me, at this point your notes become similar to your discard pile. If you cannot remember what is in there then you are allowed to look but so is your opponent.

Personally, I do not like the note taking about Time Walk. I think the intent of Time Walk was to give you the knowledge of your prizes but not your opponent or the 'game.' But, there are rules in place for note taking and therefore if you choose to write them down I agree that the rules state that your opponent can read them too.

If you don't get it NOW. You're simply NOT TRYING to get it... and are arguing for the sake of entertaining yourself in times of boredom.
.
.
.
feel me?

(also ... I suggest this topic be locked. I really don't want to lose the note-taking option... at all.)

 

[PokePop]

Rogue:

I'm not threatening to take the option away.
It's not mine to take away.
I'm warning that continuing to push the rule MAY cause those that do have the authority to take it away to do so.
I think it worthwhile that they realize that.
Sorry, but sometimes people need to hear things straight and clear.
I am not upset by it.
Personally, I don't take notes, so I wouldn't miss it.

Anyway, locking it since it's a dead horse.