Official Ban Gardevoir for Worlds 2008 Discussion

[ShinySwampert]

The real problem is, there aren't enough powerful, fast, high HP Psychic-type Pokemon in the format. They gave Alakazam a 50 for 3 attack (I can understand 100HP, but 50 for 3? Zam is better than that...) Neither of Gengar's attacks can take advantage of weakness (though Life Drain is one of my favorite attacks). Dusknoir either, and he's actually part of the problem.

The highest base damage of any Psychic attack on any card in modified is 60. Check for yourself.

So, not only is Plox a great deck; you can't effectively use it's weakness against it. Only Mismagius and Banette have come close. If TPC had printed a 120-130 HP Psychic type that could do 80-100 damage, that would have gone a long way towards stopping Plox from dominating the way it now does. That, and they could have made some better Supporters. People relying on Claydol to help them win only makes Plox stronger, but with Wager/Absol/Mars around, they don't have much of a choice. TPC should try not to make cards that are so abuseable.

 

[master of puppets]

Actually, Nidoqueen from MT has a base attack of 90 for three.
If Dusknoir weren't part of the GG equation then that would still be a viable choice, I know I would still be playing it.

 

[ShinySwampert]

Actually, Nidoqueen from MT has a base attack of 90 for three.
If Dusknoir weren't part of the GG equation then that would still be a viable choice, I know I would still be playing it.

:\

Somehow missed that.

Nidoqueen then? Meh... you're right. Dusknoir ruins it's potential.

Might have a chance, though. Maybe with Dusknoir? 120 to Gallade is just a PP away from KO. It KO's Gardie and Gardie Lv.X even with DRE.

You never know... It could be in the a deck that wins Worlds.

 

[Banette EX]

Thanks Jay, I appriciate that. I also did win a States with Banette so I should know what can and can't beat Banette. :thumb::biggrin:

Drew

Ok then you wont go 2-5 or 3-4 like you were saying. I didnt doubt your skill,I was saying if you had success with it,then you will do well. You seem to be misunderstanding what Im saying and taking it for insults and not just a statement.

 

[master of puppets]

Straight Banette cannot do well. It looses to Empoleon too bad.

 

[Banette EX]

BUt Empoleon is like Magmortar earlier,you say it looses,but its not there to lose to it. Empoleon will reduce in being played because of the success of Gardilade during nationals,and I know we can agree on that fact.

 

[Lazorman55]

You cant depend on what you THINK will be played.
If you know a deck is being commonly played, even if another deck is superior there are those out there who think its being the superior deck.
Also, Banette does not have better than a 60/40 against gg.

 

[Broken Lizard]

The only reasonable solution that I can see is an errata to Psychic Lock that ends the effect when the defending pokémon is benched. Thus, Warp Point would give opponents a way out.

This would of course require a ruling from Japan, and I think that's almost 100% unlikely.

 

[Jaeger]

Combine that with the fact POP would not unload that kind of bomb shell on us 2 weeks before Worlds.

 

[Dr. Mason]

:\

Somehow missed that.

Nidoqueen then? Meh... you're right. Dusknoir ruins it's potential.

Might have a chance, though. Maybe with Dusknoir? 120 to Gallade is just a PP away from KO. It KO's Gardie and Gardie Lv.X even with DRE.

You never know... It could be in the a deck that wins Worlds.

Nidoqueen-Dusknoir-Alakazam anybody? You can stop them from using Dark Palm on you that way

 

[master of puppets]

Three stage 2's that require a Power to counter Plox?
Sorry, I just don't see that working well enough to set up before getting Plox'd.

 

[Dr. Mason]

Conside that Alakazam is not affected by PLOX, and that Nidoqueen can set up just as fast as Gardevoir.

 

[master of puppets]

How do you plan on Dusknoiring though? They can easily keep the same bench as you while ploxing.
I've played Duskqueen since MT, got 4th at Idaho States, 5th at Utah States, and 8th at Colorado Regionals, I know the deck. Probably better than anyone.
While it actually has a pretty good match up with Plox, better than most, while still being able to keep up with all of the other decks, in the long run it just loses to Plox.
Now if we only had to worry about Gallade, then it would win easy peasy.
Or if we only had to worry about Gardevoir, then it would win.
Or if it only had to worry about Dusknoir, then it would win.
Or even a combo of only two of them, then it would win.
But when the three of them are put together, you loose...
Generally the deck doesn't have enough resources to use Kazam every turn. Maybe if you centered the deck around that, but after all is said and done, it would still loose.

 

[Banette EX]

You cant depend on what you THINK will be played.
If you know a deck is being commonly played, even if another deck is superior there are those out there who think its being the superior deck.
Also, Banette does not have better than a 60/40 against gg.

You cant THINK on whats played,yea then why do people tech for certain matchups?? because they THINK something is played and be ready to counter.

60/40?? Even with Dusknoir the matchup is better than that in Banettes favor and Im pretty sure of that.

 

[Ancient Pokemon Trainer]

Lol nope there's no way it could be more htan 60-40 at MAX.

 

[Banette EX]

Ure right,the matchup is only 50/50 at best,it depend if Gardilade/PLOX gets setup.

 

[Time for Pain]

How do you plan on Dusknoiring though? They can easily keep the same bench as you while ploxing.
I've played Duskqueen since MT, got 4th at Idaho States, 5th at Utah States, and 8th at Colorado Regionals, I know the deck. Probably better than anyone.
While it actually has a pretty good match up with Plox, better than most, while still being able to keep up with all of the other decks, in the long run it just loses to Plox.
Now if we only had to worry about Gallade, then it would win easy peasy.
Or if we only had to worry about Gardevoir, then it would win.
Or if it only had to worry about Dusknoir, then it would win.
Or even a combo of only two of them, then it would win.
But when the three of them are put together, you loose...
Generally the deck doesn't have enough resources to use Kazam every turn. Maybe if you centered the deck around that, but after all is said and done, it would still loose.

also people will probably play breloom now w/ moonlight stadium and that OHKO's a nidoqueen/dusknoir/ most psychics

 

[yoyofsho16]

also people will probably play breloom now w/ moonlight stadium and that OHKO's a nidoqueen/dusknoir/ most psychics

Yeah, but if they saw you could OHKO them, why would they bring out their Dusknoir?!?!

It would get killed first.

 

[Lazorman55]

You cant THINK on whats played,yea then why do people tech for certain matchups?? because they THINK something is played and be ready to counter.

60/40?? Even with Dusknoir the matchup is better than that in Banettes favor and Im pretty sure of that.

WRONG.
They tech for stuff that WILL be played.
Empoleon WILL be played.
LOL.
NO matchup is worse than 50/50 for gg at this point.
Dusknoir DESTROYS banette.
Banette doesnt 1shot you while you take em down to 3 bench and 1shot any of their pokemon.(unless its banbliss)
Even then, Dusknoir has resistence to blissey.

This is IMO.

 

[SteveP]

How do you plan on Dusknoiring though? They can easily keep the same bench as you while ploxing.
I've played Duskqueen since MT, got 4th at Idaho States, 5th at Utah States, and 8th at Colorado Regionals, I know the deck. Probably better than anyone.
While it actually has a pretty good match up with Plox, better than most, while still being able to keep up with all of the other decks, in the long run it just loses to Plox.
Now if we only had to worry about Gallade, then it would win easy peasy.
Or if we only had to worry about Gardevoir, then it would win.
Or if it only had to worry about Dusknoir, then it would win.
Or even a combo of only two of them, then it would win.
But when the three of them are put together, you loose...
Generally the deck doesn't have enough resources to use Kazam every turn. Maybe if you centered the deck around that, but after all is said and done, it would still loose.

Agree.

My kid won CO States with Speed/Banette before the Dusknior/GG combo. He probably would've won UT States with the same deck had he not conceded to his friend.

Dusknoir lets GG win the late-game (as well as the unbalanced use of Dusknior's PP throughout the game).