Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Ontario Canada Provincial Championships

smacktack15 said:
.... BTW, here is the top 16 MA because I forgot that I took the standings home:p If you want me to take your name down please tell me//

MA:
1st Zach Lesage (11-0)
2nd Johnathon Richard-Perrin (8-3)
3rd Curtis Lyon (8-2)
4th Jordan Koch (8-2)
5th Sebastian Swierad (7-2)
6th Alaric McKenzie-Boone (7-2)
7th Matt Koo (6-3)
8th Rafael Estacio (6-3)
9th Alexandre Lefebvre (6-2)
10th Adam Arsenault (5-3)
11th Johnathon Ho (5-3)
12th Sean Robinson (5-3)
13th Dakota G (5-3)
14th Nik Denty (5-3)
15th Bryan Cresswell (5-3)
16th Coleman Fung (4-4)
Click to expand...
Umm, Zach, .... you say you don't want to give him up, yet you posted the standings which clearly show who it was. Tisk Tisk. However the info was not easy to surmise.

I'm sure those affected should have discussed this with the Tournament organizer of record before posting, right? I know in the past he has made an effort to compensate those adversely affected, so that should be considered. Rules state that standings should be posted after the 3rd round (if I remember correctly). Let me give everyone some advice. Players should be consistantly checking to see that the reports are correct. Any inconsistancies should be reported right away so they can be corrected before the next round. If they aren't reported until later - even one round, or when top cut is announced, it can be disasterous. As much as I hate to admit it, at that point, the players must hold some responsibility (however small) for the outcome as well. Certainly a tough call, and very unfortunate, but it does happen from time to time. A learning experience, I'm sure for both players and event staff.
 
Zach, I get that you're upset with this group, but it needs to be taken up privately with PTO's, Judges & POP if you feel that it needs to be done...

I know you've kept names out of your comments to try to keep it somewhat private as to who you're accusing of this, but you didn't do a good job of it. A large majority of the people at that tournament knows who was involved in the "4-3 and made the top cut" situation, and we all know who's in his group.

I have never been bribed for a match before (possibly because people know I'm too competitive to just give up a match) and I had never even heard of this happening until your post. By saying "How is it fair that a 4-3 made cut and two 5-2's didn't make it in? How is it fair that another person from his group bribes people for concession" most of us know who you're implying of this.

Keep these matters private. As I've said, I've never heard of this happening before, and now I come on 'Gym and see this accusation regarding someone I know. If you hear this happening during a tournament let the judges know right away. Hopefully other players will do the same, but until something is proven keep the matter private, and don't call someone out for doing it.
 
P_A said:
Umm, Zach, .... you say you don't want to give him up, yet you posted the standings which clearly show who it was. Tisk Tisk. However the info was not easy to surmise.

I'm sure those affected should have discussed this with the Tournament organizer of record before posting, right? I know in the past he has made an effort to compensate those adversely affected, so that should be considered. Rules state that standings should be posted after the 3rd round (if I remember correctly). Let me give everyone some advice. Players should be consistantly checking to see that the reports are correct. Any inconsistancies should be reported right away so they can be corrected before the next round. If they aren't reported until later - even one round, or when top cut is announced, it can be disasterous. As much as I hate to admit it, at that point, the players must hold some responsibility (however small) for the outcome as well. Certainly a tough call, and very unfortunate, but it does happen from time to time. A learning experience, I'm sure for both players and event staff.
Click to expand...

Neither Marcel, the guy whose win was posted as a loss, nor I were compensated. After the round that this occured, there were no standings posted, so there was no way of knowing until the following round was paired. The player whose win was posted as a loss had a correctly reported match slip (as per both him and his opponent), and it was handed in as such. Somehow 'Win' ended up being circled on both - how can the players hold responsibility for this outcome? If anything, it is the tournament software that is at fault, and of course the player that took advantage of the situation and decided to unrightfully take his place in the top 16.
 
I feel your pain Zach, but you aren't following correct proceedure. I am not the organizer of record for the event, nor can I "do" anything about it when that group doesn't attend my events. [email protected] is also your friend in this regard. With enough complaints they will investigate.

I see the bigger picture more than you know. And if it was reported before the next round, you especially need to take it up with the organizer, and his computer staff. If a top cut is absolutely knowingly wrong, a smart organizer always has the option of disregarding TOM programming and running the remainder of the event manually, then reporting the results later. However the organizer has to be aware of the situation, and willing to use the manual approach. Not all are. And unless you personally reported it to the organizer himself, you can't be positive that he knew and was able to have that option before it was too late to fix. Sometimes with larger events, organizers trust staff to fix problems as they happen and expect them to start the rounds in a timely manner. This may result in rounds being started by the staff before time is available for the organizer to realize there was a mistake made. I wasn't there, and I can't vouch for the actions taken there, but I know from personal experience that things do happen at events that catch people unaware. But we all share responsibility to make sure that the integrity of our events is kept intact. If you see a problem report it. That, as a player, is the best you can do. As for the morality of one person's actions, or one group's actions, I find it best not to answer. I may not believe in kharma, but I have faith that sooner or later what goes around comes around. Getting upset over the actions hurts you more than it hurts them. My best advice to you is to do your best in any event, and show your best spirit of the game conduct at the events and leave the rest to others to attend to. If you spot a problem - report it properly, and leave the results to take care of themselves in due time. That way you can be content you've done all you can do.

Congratulations on your 1st place win, Zach. Good job.

Reed, not all players are responsible or held accountable, but in this case individual players are. Do you see my point? Those who take the match slips are also at fault if they don't read the result slips and notice an anomaly. The computer op also is responsible, and obviously the organizer is responsible. However had both players been diligent in making sure the result slip was filled properly the resulting chaos could have been avoided. And if you are aware as a player that standings (or match records in this case) are not being given, request them. You have the right. However, just remember that it is your record you are checking for accuracy. Getting upset over something that happens in someone else's domain doesn't help your concentration. Don't let that get to you. As for what I said about compensation - I said "in the past." I'm not his conscience, nor would I want to be. I just know he has done so in the past. And it is definitely not a given that the software is at fault, if human error resulted in the wrong result punched in. If you can prove that the right result was punched in, then I will grant that the software was in error, and that you must take up with [email protected] In any case, doing your best and showing your best spirit of the game will result in a good feeling for what you have accomplished. No one can take that from you.
 
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P_A said:
I feel your pain Zach, but you aren't following correct proceedure. I am not the organizer of record for the event, nor can I "do" anything about it when that group doesn't attend my events. [email protected] is also your friend in this regard. With enough complaints they will investigate.

I see the bigger picture more than you know. And if it was reported before the next round, you especially need to take it up with the organizer, and his computer staff. If a top cut is absolutely knowingly wrong, a smart organizer always has the option of disregarding TOM programming and running the remainder of the event manually, then reporting the results later. However the organizer has to be aware of the situation, and willing to use the manual approach. Not all are. And unless you personally reported it to the organizer himself, you can't be positive that he knew and was able to have that option before it was too late to fix. Sometimes with larger events, organizers trust staff to fix problems as they happen and expect them to start the rounds in a timely manner. This may result in rounds being started by the staff before time is available for the organizer to realize there was a mistake made. I wasn't there, and I can't vouch for the actions taken there, but I know from personal experience that things do happen at events that catch people unaware. But we all share responsibility to make sure that the integrity of our events is kept intact. If you see a problem report it. That, as a player, is the best you can do. As for the morality of one person's actions, or one group's actions, I find it best not to answer. I may not believe in kharma, but I have faith that sooner or later what goes around comes around. Getting upset over the actions hurts you more than it hurts them. My best advice to you is to do your best in any event, and show your best spirit of the game conduct at the events and leave the rest to others to attend to. If you spot a problem - report it properly, and leave the results to take care of themselves in due time. That way you can be content you've done all you can do.

Congratulations on your 1st place win, Zach. Good job.

Reed, not all players are responsible or held accountable, but in this case individual players are. Do you see my point? Those who take the match slips are also at fault if they don't read the result slips and notice an anomaly. The computer op also is responsible, and obviously the organizer is responsible. However had both players been diligent in making sure the result slip was filled properly the resulting chaos could have been avoided. And if you are aware as a player that standings (or match records in this case) are not being given, request them. You have the right. However, just remember that it is your record you are checking for accuracy. Getting upset over something that happens in someone else's domain doesn't help your concentration. Don't let that get to you. As for what I said about compensation - I said "in the past." I'm not his conscience, nor would I want to be. I just know he has done so in the past. And it is definitely not a given that the software is at fault, if human error resulted in the wrong result punched in. If you can prove that the right result was punched in, then I will grant that the software was in error, and that you must take up with [email protected] In any case, doing your best and showing your best spirit of the game will result in a good feeling for what you have accomplished. No one can take that from you.
Click to expand...

My biggest problem is that I email them and they say "catch it in the event and tell the HJ/PTO/" but, I was talking to the person in his group and he was telling me how he is going to ask his opponent for a concession so he might make cut. I told him it was wrong but, he still continued to ask for a concession (from what I am aware of) and I don't think he received a penalty (and if he did I am unaware of it which is a great job on the staff of the event).

Now I am not asking for what happened but, I am asking for the way that these actions can be stopped. I am trying to go for a rankings invite this year and I find it incredibly hard to attempt because that person is a clear 50 points ahead of me (well, was:biggrin:) and is taking points from the people who do it honestly.

Getting back on topic, I still have no grapes over the certain person who altered the top cut but, I don't think it was the way to go and I definitely would have conceded to my opponent and apologized to Reed and my dad.
 
Zach, I'm going to point this out to you. It's something you should know or have realized by now. But I'm not going to discuss it after this. If you have a problem at an event, no matter what event - even World's, you always have the option of walking up to the head judge, or at least asking for the head judge to discuss that situation privately. I know all of the head judges that have been used in Ontario personally, and I know that if you mentioned to them that a certain person was going to ask for a concession so they could go on, IN FACT I guarantee they would take that threat seriously. They would either watch the match, or investigate after the match. A person got DQ'd at Nat's last year for precisely this offence. Same crew? Possibly, but none of our business. If you acted like just about any other Canadian who wouldn't want to talk to the head judge for fear of getting someone else in trouble (silly Canadians - they're too polite), then you have to share in the outcome of of your actions. If POP told you to catch them at the event and tell the HJ/TO, then they were right. Learn from this Zach. You should have known this long ago. Each and every player has this responsibility. If it's not taken seriously, neither the HJ/TO, nor POP can be held responsible for the outcome.

As for any other situation, I'm sure TPCi would rather that they receive accurate results than tainted ones. There are always options - some less palatable than others, but you and I know there are, and you probably know what they are just as well as me. However my comments don't mean anything since I wasn't there. I can quote the rules and suggest stuff, and second guess people, but that won't change the result will it? Move on if you can - for your own sake, as well as others.
 
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