Pokemon Core Sets

[kwisdumb]

Please excuse me if this has been brought up before, but I've been thinking and reading a lot about Magic: The Gathering lately, and thought this topic might spur some interesting discussion from the community...

What would you think of Pokemon doing a small (90 cards or so), "core" set, consisting of 50% new cards and 50% reprints of useful cards that new players would need. The idea, at it's core (heh) would be to allow new players to get their hands on things like Rare Candy, Switch, Warp Point, Super Scoop Up, Night Maintenance, etc. that are needed for most decks, as well as recent staple re-prints such as Poke Turn, Broken Time Space, etc. along with a few, recent, sorta-staple reprints like Crobat G, Sableye, Spiritomb, etc. while still keeping the set interesting enough for seasoned players to want to buy by including all new cards. Ideally a set like this would be released every one or two years.

Obviously this is unlikely to happen as it disrupts the distribution effort between PCL and TPCI, but I think it would be a fantastic idea and wanted to gauge interest among the community at large.

Thoughts?

 

[nnaann]

From a player's point of view, this would be a great idea - maybe the packs could replace league promos. Existing players can pick up more staples and be able to build multiple decks at once, while new/young players can quickly get a competitive deck.

From a business's point of view, this would probably affect their sales of the original boosters alot. Also their target market isn't competitive players but kids who probably don't know how to play and don't want cards that were printed before.

I'd love this idea, but I'd be suprised if they did it.

 

[prodigal_fanboy]

Sounds like league prizes without as much of a rotation factor.

Edit: Read more than the first sentence of your post.

Sounds like league prizes that actively devalue their merchandise reserves. If you mass print the chase rares, they no longer are chase rares (or chase uncommons, Skullclamp/Poketurn).

 

[M_Liesik]

The difference between MTG and Pokemon is customer base. MTG's customer base is firmly rooted in the hobby market, which is primarily players. The Pokemon customer base is firmly rooted in the mass market, which is primarily collectors and casual fans.

Core sets work for a customer base that is primarily players. They do not work for a customer base that is primarily collectors and casual fans. Those customers want new cards, not reprints of things they've already got, even with a 50/50 mix of reprint/new.

There's a reason that there was never a Base Set 3. :wink:

 

[kwisdumb]

Ahh, right, I kind of thought it would go without saying that a big part of the reason this probably won't happen is because Pokemon caters more to the casual fan than it does the hardcore players, not to mention most of the customer base is the former.

I just thought it was an interesting discussion, and that by comparing ourselves to other contemporary games we can see how we're better, worse, different, etc.

I agree that this idea wouldn't pan out really, I just thought it could spark some neat posts.

 

[AyameHikaru]

There's a reason that there was never a Base Set 3. :wink:

Two words: Legendary Collection. :wink:

I think it would be cool if they implemented this as a sort of replacement for POP packs. I mean, POP was mostly reprints with new artwork, so it's along similar lines, but adding in a few new cards to balance it out would garner more interest. I can't see it working as an actual retail set, but for something like player rewards stuff I think it'd be cool.

 

[M_Liesik]

And they tried some different things with LC to try to garner more interest from the collectors. Heck, they even tried to spice up the name to make the set sound cooler. I don't believe that set did too well sales-wise either.

Sure, there were "plans" for LC2, but remember that WotC was/is notorious for trying to shoehorn all of their TCG products into the MTG release model. In some way, it really makes sense. It's easier on pretty much every department, as all of the pieces are already in place. However, it doesn't work with every game and can have disastrous financial consequences.

 

[bullados]

I understand completely if this question cannot be answered, but IMO it's kinda the next logical question after hearing that it's not an option...

Has the discussion ever come up? If so, how often?

I know that many players teetering on the edge between competitive and casual play would like a kind of Core set that would help them more easily augment their competitive card collection and make the transition from casual to competitive much easier for them. Even if they don't know the terminology to make such a request.

 

[jeffrey123]

I wish they would reprint the base sets and gym leader heroes sets; but make them betetr.

EX: Hitmonchan Base set has 70 hp, did 20 for [F]. Instead. Hitmonchan Base set reprint 2010 could have 90 hp, and do 50 for [F]

 

[waynegg]

And they tried some different things with LC to try to garner more interest from the collectors. Heck, they even tried to spice up the name to make the set sound cooler. I don't believe that set did too well sales-wise either.

Sure, there were "plans" for LC2, but remember that WotC was/is notorious for trying to shoehorn all of their TCG products into the MTG release model. In some way, it really makes sense. It's easier on pretty much every department, as all of the pieces are already in place. However, it doesn't work with every game and can have disastrous financial consequences.

You also need to take into account that it was a made up, 100% reprint set that cheesed off even the collectors (speaking as a collector who was collecting at that time). Most collectors considered it a non-set as it didn't correspond to any Japanese release. I bought exactly 2 packs of the rubbish (none with Base 2 for the exact same reason). I bought them on the secondary market much later just to fill the hole.

Right now, with how strong the gaming side of the market is, a reprint set would likely go over well.

 

[ShadowCard]

Rather than release a core set, I'd rather see a list of grandfathered cards that are always reprinted into the modified format be approved instead of continuously reprinting those cards. Cards like:
Potion
Switch
Poke Ball
Energy Search

An energy card would be preferable to getting one of those in a booster pack, especially now that energy cards are more creative.

And they tried some different things with LC to try to garner more interest from the collectors. Heck, they even tried to spice up the name to make the set sound cooler. I don't believe that set did too well sales-wise either.

I thought the strength of LC was that it was good for drafts. But that falls into the point of making a set targeting the players when the sales are in the mass market areas due to the collectors.

 

[sdp]

I really think TPCi should give core sets a second thought.

Base Set 2 was just a bad idea, first of all Base Set and Jungle were still available and offered nothing new. Me and all the other kids saw Base2 as a way for them to retire the old sets, so in turn instead of buying it we bought more Base Set and Jungle boosters since the stores still sold them and we thought they'd be worth more for not being Base2.

Now, with current sets theres tons of re-prints and cards that are always in the card pool. I mean do collectors really want another potion and switch set after set with the same art? Instead they should only be printed in a core set a long with other reprints with different artwork, add some Pokemon for beginner players, some interesting rares for collectors and you have a nice core set. It'd also help make expansions be smaller, IMO the expansions have too many cards nowadays, this definitely scares new collectors to start.

I also think this core set would benefit new players and encourage people who don't play to start playing the game. When I was 12 and curious about MTG and I knew exactly where to start, Remember how Wizards used to do the whole Starter/Advanced/Expert? That really worked well, I guess you can say the "expert" logo can scare kids but we have proof otherwise from the late 90s. I don't understand why that was done away with it really did help new players or people wanting to get into the game since they knew ere to start. But anyways at the time I was a kid MTG besides the core sets, they also had a "starter" expansion set. and it had reprints of cards that were easy enough for a beginner to understand and get to know the game. I wish Pokemon would do that. People would see the Pokemon starter expansion and know thats were they begin.

In fact I think all the theme decks should be called "starter" packs, its basically what they are and anyone would know exactly what they are if it had that in the front or in the name. They'd be a lot more approachable. The Trainer Kits are also done very poorly, they need emphasize more that they will teach you exactly how to play and they need to have better rule books than the one it includes. Why can't it be more like the original two player starter deck?

Anyways I'm going off topic now but yeah a core set IMO would make it friendlier for kids to get interested in playing. Its a big missed opportunity along with getting rid of the "Starter" logo. They proved successful in when the game was a hit, I don't know why TPCi shy's away from it.

 

[Barkjon]

This an awesome idea, but I really doubt they would do it.

I wish they would make a special "Deck-Building" Set, that made re-prints of good cards for decks (e.g. Rosy's, Bebe's, Warp Point, energies) other than just Pokemon.

 

[Sevus]

This an awesome idea, but I really doubt they would do it.

I wish they would make a special "Deck-Building" Set, that made re-prints of good cards for decks (e.g. Rosy's, Bebe's, Warp Point, energies) other than just Pokemon.

So a reprint expansion or something like the M:TG "Deck Builder's Toolkit" they recently released?

Basically, the toolkit came equipped with 100 basic lands (20 of each color), 125 semi-random cards, four boosters, and a deck building guide. Convert that to Pokémon cards, throw in a package of sleeves and a deck box (even a fold-up cardboard one, as long as it holds 60 sleeved cards) and you'd have a good jumping off point into league play, which as always can be advertised in the deck-building guide.

I think something like this would be useful, or even a "Core Set" that releases alongside a completely new set, so collectors still have new material to go after and players can get some of the staple cards.

 

[kwisdumb]

I know this doesn't really fit into Pokemon's demographic or anything and I realize it'll probably never get made and wouldn't sell with most of it's customers, but I've always wanted to see a "Premium Intro Kit" or something where it comes with a real playmat, a pack of all the legal sets, a real deckbox, 2 packs of sleeves, maybe 20 of each basic energy, the two newest precon decks, and then maybe 100-200 cards that are common in deckbuilding. It'd be expensive (maybe $100?), but I always thought it would be a cool idea.

Heck, I think an eBay seller with enough spare time could make something similar and market it as the same thing.

 

[Squidwina]

I've often thought that it would be really nice to have some sort of TSS-only kit that could be sold to newer players who want to quickly and easily upgrade their decks. Many of our people at league are interested in getting better trainers for their decks and it would be great to give them an easier way to get some. People are much more likely to buy something that's right in the store than to go online and order singles--or convince their parents to go online and order them for them. Of course they could trade for them, but that takes a certain amount of patience. Offering such a kit would result in sales that would directly profit TPCi and the retailer.

I'd guess that a price point of $15, or about the cost of a tin, would be best. Putting it in a cool package like a tin deck box would sweeten the deal considerably, as would including some small amount of basic energy.* Call it a "deck upgrade kit" or something.

I doubt it would sell well at mass-market retailers, but if it sold well enough in card stores, would it have to? Even if the product itself didn't prove to be particularly profitable for TPCi, if it was effective in helping to convert people to more serious play, then it would lead to profitability down the road.

Part of the reason why I think this idea might work is that when we recommend theme decks to new players, the trainer line is probably the most important consideration. It's the closest we can get to guaranteeing that they will get particular trainers and energy.

As far as what could be included in such a trainer kit--It should include a core set of basic trainers that have been in the format regularly and probably will remain so. If the set were printed with it's own symbol, then all the cards could stay in the format indefinitely. POP could just keep the set in format as long as they wanted while still retaining the option to rotate it out if they feel the need to do so in the future.

Making this kind of kit would require POP to make a sort of committment to keeping certain trainers in the format over a few years, but why not do that? Poke-ball, Switch, and Warp Point have been around forever, and cards like Pokedex Handy and Professor Oak's Visit have been printed in at least two series, and they're neither game-breaking nor particularly high value, so I don't see a down side to keeping them around. Whether such a kit could feasibly include Rare Candy would have to be determined.

I understand that this sort of thing may not be feasible, but I'd sure like to see it.


* Speaking of energy--people are always asking me why they can't just buy energy separately. Is it because the need for energy drives theme deck sales? I know plenty of people who would buy 10-packs of energy, especially if the price-point was good. Again, that would probably be a hobby-store only product, but it might provide some nice gravy for them.

 

[supertyranitar]

I honestly don't see how this is a bad idea. Legendary Collection was a pretty nice set to of had, it helped bring back some needed material while making it somewhat enjoyable on the collector's front via introducing reverse holos. Really, it seems to me that Core Sets, if they were ever printed in pokemon, would be like that of Power Keepers.

Power Keepers helped bring back some important cards, while introducing some new cards to the format. Sure, it didn't bring much of an impact, but, it was still nice to have things like Delcatty or Steven's Advice back in the format - both of which were pretty helpful in their own right. Delcatty was nice to have for things like Delcatty ex, as well as Infernape. (Delcatty was nice to have in Blissey before GG got big, and Steven's Advice...well, pretty self-explanatory). Plus, out of the new cards that we got from the set, such as Absol ex, or Jolteon *, helped give rise to one of the better decks of DX- on: Absolutions. The set was pretty nice, even if there wasn't a lot of useful material out of it, it still brought some potential reprints to the table (like Scott, Battle Frontier, etc.) and gave us some interesting cards as a whole that had never been seen before and/or might not have been seen in play (Absol ex, Skarmory ex, Jolteon*)

Given what MD-on is shaping up to be - a lack of Claydol, a dependence on Uxie, mass mayhem for stage 2 decks in regards to setting up, and dominance of SP's/luck (in regards to Machamp, even more so now) - I think a core set might be nice to have. Reprints of cards like Scramble, Claydol, Unown G, Call Energy, and any other potential cards from previous sets that might help the current state of the format, and/or, help new players jump into the format. Plus, there's a chance of printing cards that we might not get otherwise, thus making up the other half of the set. Core sets would help new players get started with little problem (it's always hard starting out, finding out what staples are needed, what cards in general are must have, etc.), and help players currently in the game get back potential beneficial reprints that are a must have.

Just my 5 cents (ihyinflation).

 

[SteveP]

Sealed Legendary Collection boosters and boxes are one of the more expensive old sets out there. Is it supply or is it demand that makes that so?

As a player, I love draft tournaments, but I'm in the minority. LC and BS2 were great draft packs. As a collector, a Core set isn't appealing to me.

League promos are the way to go for reprints. Personally, I didn't even like the reprints they tagged to the end of those D&P sets. The Shiny's in the Platinum sets were much better.

 

[Squidwina]

I like the league promos too. It's been a great way to get staple cards to people.

But what's the point of having league promos that rotate out within a couple of months?

 

[SteveP]

...But what's the point of having league promos that rotate out within a couple of months?

Good point. If the league promos this year were considered as a unique set, with their own set symbol (like the POP Series), then we'd be able to continue using them, perhaps. However, maybe that was POP's intention in the first place (let them rotation out with the set they were re-printed from). Who knows.