Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Post Nationals Thoughts and Reflects.

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At what point is dress considered modest? One extreme says women must wear buttoned-up, collared shirts, and the other extreme says pasties are sufficient.

Another consideration is, "what is acceptable in art?" Few would argue that art sometimes crosses line about what is acceptable in real life. It's not hard to find R-rated, even X-rated, anime art and media. Not seeing the anime in question, I'm sure someone felt it was R-rated (or higher) and was not appropriate for ANY Pokemon event where young kids are close by.

Naked (or mostly naked) art might be appropriate in the museum, but not at Pokemon tournaments.

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."


sportmanship has nothing to do with how you dress.
SOTG also has nothing to do with it.

Morals is something from inside and has nothing to do with outside. (or should I call it "insight")
And even the definition of moral is different from person to person.

There's still cross-cultural universals that you are overlooking.
 
I really hope people who want more "modesty" at Pokemon tournaments, never go to any European beach.
They would get a heart attack right away.
 
sportmanship has nothing to do with how you dress.
SOTG also has nothing to do with it.

Morals is something from inside and has nothing to do with outside. (or should I call it "insight")
And even the definition of moral is different from person to person.

I said Sportsmanship/SOTG promote a family oriented environment, so it should also include modest clothing.

Exposing yourself can imply bad morals for what it's promoting. I also think immodest dress is a bit selfish; you may not care, but you don't speak for other people. Your definition seems to agree with those terms, it varies from person to person, as you say. Not everyone is comfortable with what you're wearing. And believe me when I say it can be distracting when playing a game, I don't feel like repeating myself several times because my opponent's mind is elsewhere.

---------- Post added 06/28/2010 at 07:43 PM ----------

I really hope people who want more "modesty" at Pokemon tournaments, never go to any European beach.
They would get a heart attack right away.

If we want to go to a European beach, we will. We're there to play Pokemon, not to go to a beach.
 
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
Yeah, you gotta love that quote. But, Justice Stewart was specifically refering to pornography. Be careful when you throw that quote at someone, because by doing so, you've accused them of the P-word.
 
Yeah, you gotta love that quote. But, Justice Stewart was specifically refering to pornography. Be careful when you throw that quote at someone, because by doing so, you've accused them of the P-word.

Slow your roll, home skillet. Stewart was referring to hardcore pornography. I wasn't accusing anyone of being pornographic, I was just comparing the difficulty of defining "modest dress" with defining "pornography" or many other individual-dependent "societal" norms.
 
Heres the thing gang, at least from where I am sitting. I have traveled to many other countries, as several of you have as well. What you do in your country and what is acceptable verses questionable can vary from place to place. One example for me was when I went to Spain. We were told by our travel coordinator that shorts were considered taboo in certain areas, unless you were at the pool, beach, etc.

Bottom line is if it is considered unacceptable where you are going to be, like it or not, it is usually best to follow what the locals do. To me its kind of a respect thing. I dont think anyone would want outsiders coming to their area and doing things that they find unacceptable. Its like a slap in the face to some. Imagine folks that eat beef on a regular basis going to a country like India, where the cow is sacred, and chewing on a big old t-bone steak out in the middle of the crowded market. The person has the right to eat whatever they want, but its a complete lack of respect to do it right in front of them in their own country.

Back on topic. As far as the clevage thing goes, I think the bigger point has been missed by some. While I completely agree that there is no purpose to having excessive clevage, etc showing at events; and believe me there are some that have too much; I dont think it is anyone elses place to step in and tell someone else to cover up. I do think there is a line, and it needs to not be crossed. Where that line is can vary from person to person, but in general, if it can be on regular tv, and not need be on HBO or whatever, I am ok with it. I may not like it but it is every persons right to wear what they want.

Where the problem lies, at least from what I have read in Bigginzzz report is the fact that one person got reprimanded for this type of thing and not another. If the laws or governing body or whatever says that a certain thing isnt allowed, then like it or not it isnt allowed. So when the person with the playmat in question is told that this image isnt accepted, then they should either not use it or cover it up. Fine. Done. Its when this happens, and then real people attend the same function with as much or more "clevage" showing, and then nothing is said to them or nothing is done about it. If you are going to have these rules in place, then I think it is absolutely required to have them for everyone, not just a few or most. It needs to be consistent or not done at all.

One last thought. I have mixed feelings about the clevage thing. I think that everyone has the right to do what they want, wear what they want and present themselves how they want. I may not like it, or may find it offensive, but again if I dont like it, I dont need to look. I do think that blatent nudity in a setting such as a Pokemon event is out of place and just shouldnt be done. I did attend one event where a female at the event actually had a wardrobe malfunction, and didnt seem to care. And it wasnt an actual failure of the gaement, it was just a "bend over too far in a top that was cut down to there" kind of a failure. She bent way over a table to see what was going on and there was " fallout". I dont have a problem with it, but dont find that it needed to be there. What purpose does it serve to have a female body part flailing outside of the womans clothes during a Pokemon tournament? Going to a beach or other event like Lia is talking about is fine. Its accepted and expected for folks to have little or no clothing on at nude beaches. But i think that most if not all people would have a real problem with a nude Pokemon tournament; so comparing the 2 isnt exactly fair.
And yes I have been to the beaches in Europe.:lol::eek::biggrin:
 
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I said Sportsmanship/SOTG promote a family oriented environment, so it should also include modest clothing.

Exposing yourself can imply bad morals for what it's promoting. I also think immodest dress is a bit selfish; you may not care, but you don't speak for other people. Your definition seems to agree with those terms, it varies from person to person, as you say. Not everyone is comfortable with what you're wearing. And believe me when I say it can be distracting when playing a game, I don't feel like repeating myself several times because my opponent's mind is elsewhere.

---------- Post added 06/28/2010 at 07:43 PM ----------



If we want to go to a European beach, we will. We're there to play Pokemon, not to go to a beach.

While you might think somebody is exposing itself, that person might just feel comfortable wearing whatever he/she wears.

(not personal meant but)
If you think somebody is exposing something to you, perhaps it's your thoughts and not the persons way of dressing.
Is that person immoral? Or are you thoughts?

While I might not speak for other persons, I do think other persons should not demand my way of living because it's different.
Sorry but even if I dislike any way of dressing I would never ask for a rule/law/demand on it.
As far as I know there is a law (in my country) that you are not allowed to run around naked (beside in designated areas), that's enough for me.
It goes way to far to define what modest should be during XX event.


@ Troy

I certainly don't want tournaments with nudes, please don't
I am trying to explain that some people have problems with much less as exposed on some beaches.
 
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We as mothers need to teach our daughters & their friends not only act in a positive manner, but also to dress properly. Showing our "goods" to the world is disrepectful to our all and can be embarassing. I see it first hand at these events, Mother's dressing not appropriate with having her cleavage hanging out. In one case I know it's for attention. The only attention she gets is from the boys 14-20 ish. This mother hits on these boys to get better decks for her kids. This mother doesnt seem to get it. Then these boys hang around her young daugter who dresses like her. The mother then puts re -straining order on the boy who becomes in love with her daughter. So do we as players have to deal with her "goods" and have it flaunted around when all we want to do is have fun and play the game?
 
Completely understandable Lia. I kinda thought the thread was going towards the importance of dress and what is good verses not good. My take on it was supposed to be more towards the fact that the guy with the playmat was reprimanded for his picture having clevage and then ladies walking around with most of it hanging out. Its the double standard thing that really bugs me. If the ladies want to and are allowed to "let the girls breathe", then why did this other person get told to cover up the stuff on his mat?

Do onto all or do onto none.:thumb:
 
We as mothers need to teach our daughters & their friends not only act in a positive manner, but also to dress properly. Showing our "goods" to the world is disrepectful to our all and can be embarassing. I see it first hand at these events, Mother's dressing not appropriate with having her cleavage hanging out. In one case I know it's for attention. The only attention she gets is from the boys 14-20 ish. This mother hits on these boys to get better decks for her kids. This mother doesnt seem to get it. Then these boys hang around her young daugter who dresses like her. The mother then puts re -straining order on the boy who becomes in love with her daughter. So do we as players have to deal with her "goods" and have it flaunted around when all we want to do is have fun and play the game?


:eek::eek: How is this promoting the game?? What is this teaching families? You wear low cut shirts,and the good decks with come to you? This doesn't sound family orientated? Kids game????
 
While you might think somebody is exposing itself, that person might just feel comfortable wearing whatever he/she wears.

Every point you make is fundamentally this, and I must once again say

What you think is acceptable might not be to others.

I'd rather be uncomfortable for the sake of others than have others feeling uncomfortable for my own sake. I don't know what you wear, but I'm sure when players are face to face with someone showing a bit much it may get awkward.
 
At what point is dress considered modest? One extreme says women must wear buttoned-up, collared shirts, and the other extreme says pasties are sufficient.
Pasties, eh? They were giving away those nifty Pokeball temporary tattoos..... :tongue:
 
bigginzzz - ironic because biggins was the name of a mens magazine that was featured in the popular eighties sitcom married with children.

Live and let live.

Would anyone would mind if I wore speedos and a tank top when I play at grinders in hawaii. It's hot there!
 
Slow your roll, home skillet. Stewart was referring to hardcore pornography. I wasn't accusing anyone of being pornographic, I was just comparing the difficulty of defining "modest dress" with defining "pornography" or many other individual-dependent "societal" norms.
No. You just posted the quote with no comparison whatsoever.

That phrase, "individual-dependent societal norms," is an oximoron.

Modesty involves a set of "acceptable dress codes and standards" established by civilized societies. If you claim to be part of that society, you either adhere to the codes, or you leave to join another society. It's difficult to define modesty only if you believe that anarchy (there are no rules) is the best solution for dress codes.

I Pokemon OP, we don't really have a codified dress standard. There are rules about respect and being appropriate. In fact, a judge can rule that card sleeve images are inappropriate. It's not much of a stretch to apply that same rule to playmat images. So, although it "can be" a tough call for a TO/HJ to rule about immodest dress, inappropriate images is an easy call.
 
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No. You just posted the quote with no comparison whatsoever.

That phrase, "individual-dependent societal norms," is an oximoron.

Modesty involves a set of "acceptable dress codes and standards" established by civilized societies. If you claim to be part of that society, you either adhere to the codes, or you leave to join another society. It's difficult to define modesty only if you believe that anarchy (there are no rules) is the best solution for dress codes.

I Pokemon OP, we don't really have a codified dress standard. There are rules about respect and being appropriate. In fact, a judge can rule that card sleeve images are inappropriate. It's not much of a stretch to apply that same rule to playmat images. So, although it "can be" a tough call for a TO/HJ to rule about immodest dress, inappropriate images is an easy call.

I posted the quote, attempting to infer the comparison. You inferred a pornography accusation.

The phrase is an oxymoron, which is why "societal" is in quotes. Individuals have their own code of standards based on preference, upbringing, mores, peer judgment, etc.

Modest dress can be defined, perhaps, as can immodest. The definition issue arises at the boundary. It's also context-dependent. Bikinis aren't immodest at a beach, but they are in the workplace. Where does Pokemon fall in that spectrum? Where do expectations change if you're a player? A parent? A staffer? A sibling dragged along? Furthermore, for non-participants in an OP, how does POP retain a license to kick people out of the event area for various reasons?

As I have been from the beginning, I'm speaking strictly to complaints about standards of dress, not the playmat issue.
 
I'm sure that if this were really a serious problem that most everyone would have heard about it through the usual gossip. When one guy notices something like this and complains then they just needs to relax.
 
:lol: this thread can't possibly be serious. :lol:


I *wear* really low-cut v-neck shirts all the time, sure hope they don't get banned from tourneys :fire:


On/Off-topic? I feel a that nationals displayed a strong mix of competitive decks thus indicating a healthy format.
 
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