Potential Combo: Call To Darkness

[ArmoredMewtwo]

Well, with SV here and BR's on the way, I have started to toy with ideas of decks revolving around the Level X cards from the set. However, the combo I discovered seems to be a little more along the lines of league play.

Charizard G Level X's Call to Power (as most of you know) allows for a player to move energy from their Benched Pokemon to their Active Charizard G Level X. People commonly wish to combine this with cards such as Typhlosion, Electivire FB Level X, and Heatran. The last of the three is a good idea. The other two, however, are not. Typhlosion, in and of itself, is rather weak on its own. If it is forced active, it won't stand a chance at all. Electivire, meanwhile, can hold its own for a little while, but it tends to do poorly without another equally-sprayable power on the field to even it out. Heatran makes the grade simply because all Charizard needs to perform the attack are two Fire Energies and two energies of another variety (assuming a Gain is attached). With the great abundance of powers being used at the time, Power Spray has become a necessary addition to most SP Decks. Claydol and Uxie are the common faces of this Power Spike.

Which brings us to the point of this topic. Currently, I am experimenting with Charizard G and a rather unexpected partner: Tyranitar SF. I have a distinct feeling that this isn't going to be considered Tier 1, but it's not meant to be. As I said, it's simply a fun combo.

The decks I've tested out so far have two distinct paths they can follow, paths that you can switch off when necessary. You can either...

A.) Power up the Tyranitars quickly through discarding energies, moving them to Charizard when the opportunity arises.
or B.) Attack ala Godzilla.

The funny thing about this is what it can do to Luxape, when the right synergy is made. Luxray's power may call up one of your weaker Pokemon, but at least you'll get energies from the process. Same with Infernape.

I'm still testing this out, but I hope to try it sometime at League. The combo looks fun, but I doubt it'll make a splash competitively, especially given the concerns of many players' parts on the playability of Charizard.

Discuss, if you please. :3

 

[TheGeneral]

Don't smell the synergy what so ever. How many fire nrg? How many ttar? Wouldn't seem consistent.

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

Don't smell the synergy what so ever. How many fire nrg? How many ttar? Wouldn't seem consistent.

You only need two T-Tar and a Heatran out (normally) for this to work. It's essentially the same thing as using two Typhlosions, except you snatch Dark Energies and you aren't anywhere near as vulnerable. Seeing as you only really need four energy (unless you don't have space for the E-Gain), your opponent only needs to use one Power during their turn for you to get what you need, so long as you are capable of getting the Fire energies attached to Charizard quickly enough.

I believe the best way to run this would be simply to run it as you would Godzilla, with or without Weavile. The deck I'm currently testing with is without Weavile, which seems to have a few major disadvantages.

This is still in its test phases, so I'm working out bugs with the consistency. Once I'm able to give you a solid list, I'll explain things a little further.

Edit: I felt the need to find a solid list for Godzilla, since I couldn't construct one myself that seemed to work. As such, I made a variant of Austino's list from the article. Using this, I was able to create a much better variant. This allows me to answer your questions from earlier. (This also proves that Weavile does help, rather than wasting space. )

1. Only six fire energies are needed. Tyranitar can even make use of these via Grind, if need be.
2. Three seems sufficient. It would be ideal to have at least two on the Bench.

 

[FriedBlaziken]

idk id just run 3-2/4-2 drifblim and like electivire SW and rayquaza LA.
get early energys out with drifblim and after t2 you should have 4 energies in play.
electivire and rayquaza to get back energies. You can get back 1 energy from electivire and 0-x from rayquaza depending on flips. you should have some leftover energies anyway

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

idk id just run 3-2/4-2 drifblim and like electivire SW and rayquaza LA.
get early energys out with drifblim and after t2 you should have 4 energies in play.
electivire and rayquaza to get back energies. You can get back 1 energy from electivire and 0-x from rayquaza depending on flips. you should have some leftover energies anyway

Electivire doesn't really help. Unless you want to run the X, you're going to end up hurting in the long run. Even then, that opens up a whole plethora of problems.

Rayquaza's alright, though he's not going to be in a good position if he's brought up to the Active position.

I really want to like Drifblim. However, I have to say no to this too. Delivery and Lifting are good, but a Stage 1 with 90 HP and no beneficial power isn't. Granted, its second attack mills through the deck faster than Weavile, but that isn't always a good thing...

Weavile, although 10 HP shy of Drifblim, can not only snatch two Dark Energies per turn, it can also turn Charizard into a dark type to hit for weakness (which is good for overkill or the few Psychics able to withstand its power).

Tyranitar has 140 HP, meaning it's going to stay on the field for a while when it gets out. Its ability to snatch energies from the discard when your opponent uses Powers forces your opponent to be careful about what they try. Unlike Typhlosion, Heatran, Electivire (FB or otherwise), and Rayquaza, however, his ability is a Body. Only Dialga G can stop it in the current format, whereas the others fall to the wrath of Power Spray, Alakazam, and Mespirit. Furthermore, Tyranitar is actually capable of defending itself, meaning that if it's forced up by Luxray or Infernape, it will probably survive the onslaught and strike back with a vengeance. Having him in the deck as a primary/second attacker tends to even out your odds of escaping a few KOs.

Having resistance to the stray Mewtwo Level X is a plus, too.

 

[emodicer]

I think it's a nice idea but as you said, it might have difficulty keeping up with the fast decks out there. At least, Charizard is resistant to Tyranitar's Weakness...

Maybe you could play Moonlight to take care of Charizard and Tyranitar's horrid retreat costs. The set up bugs me as you should have a full bench to make the whole thing work (Active Charizard, Benched Weavile or Heatran, 2 T-Tars, Claydol (or other draw) and a back-up Charizard), which does not provide you enough leeway to add in a tech against opposing Water types.

Is it just me or are people quick to point out how Malevolent Fire is not worth it? Despite the strategy of the deck focusing on Malevolent Fire, it does not mean that it can't use its other attacks. Heat Blast is somewhat decent to use until you fully set it up and unlike Rayquaza (which is also a pain to set-up), Heat Blast can be a form of a fail-safe in case the set-up does not work out.

Might be fun to play, though.

 

[Shen]

If only Dark Electrode were still around =/

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

I think it's a nice idea but as you said, it might have difficulty keeping up with the fast decks out there. At least, Charizard is resistant to Tyranitar's Weakness...

Maybe you could play Moonlight to take care of Charizard and Tyranitar's horrid retreat costs. The set up bugs me as you should have a full bench to make the whole thing work (Active Charizard, Benched Weavile or Heatran, 2 T-Tars, Claydol (or other draw) and a back-up Charizard), which does not provide you enough leeway to add in a tech against opposing Water types.

Is it just me or are people quick to point out how Malevolent Fire is not worth it? Despite the strategy of the deck focusing on Malevolent Fire, it does not mean that it can't use its other attacks. Heat Blast is somewhat decent to use until you fully set it up and unlike Rayquaza (which is also a pain to set-up), Heat Blast can be a form of a fail-safe in case the set-up does not work out.

Might be fun to play, though.

If you somehow manage to get Weavile and Tyranitar set up quickly (which is easy, seeing as this is more or less a Godzilla variant), then you should be fine. Moonlight is pretty necessary because, as you said, both of them have really high retreat costs.

If nothing else, this deck is hilarious. If you don't start with a lone Charizard or Heatran (which hasn't happened to me yet), you can really throw your opponent off by a sudden drop and Level Max. The expression on their face will be priceless.

 

[Shen]

So how did you do your energy line-up in this deck?

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

So how did you do your energy line-up in this deck?

The current line-up I'm using is 8 Darkness (basic), 6 Fire. Since the only way to recover the Special Darkness Energies is through Electivire (and I really don't want to use it in this deck, or Tyranitar would be pointless), and Charizard can hit for 150 anyway, I figured I might as well just forget about the Specials.

 

[Regis_Neo]

The main flaw I see is the reliance on t-tar, which is just as bad (if not worse) than using Electivire or Typhlosion. If I see you gathering up Energy on your bench and you have a Zard G out, it's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, so I'd just stop using Poke-Powers then, which would then deny you t-tar's Body as well. I mean, it's not uber hard to stop if you want to...then again, I've always thought t-tar sucked, but that' my opinion.

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

The main flaw I see is the reliance on t-tar, which is just as bad (if not worse) than using Electivire or Typhlosion.

In some cases, it could be better, in some it could be worse. If you're forced to bring one of them up, for example, Tyranitar has more of a chance of protecting itself than Typhlosion. Then there's the whole 'Powers Getting Canceled Easily' thing that seems to have been a phobia of many players since PL-on (which, to me, just seems like a load of bullocks).

If I see you gathering up Energy on your bench and you have a Zard G out, it's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, so I'd just stop using Poke-Powers then, which would then deny you t-tar's Body as well. I mean, it's not uber hard to stop if you want to...

Heh. If it weren't for the fact that a good majority of the decks in the format rely on powers in one way or another (ala Claydol, Uxie, Unown G, Luxray, Blaziken PL... The list goes on.), then I would be more than happy to agree with you. However, it's not so simple to just pick and choose when you're going to stop using powers in this format... Not anymore, anyway.

Another aspect of this you're forgetting is that you can freely drop that Charizard later on in the game. This is what I typically do; if I get a Sneasel and/or a Larvitar on the opening hand, I'm more likely to play those down and leave my opponent in the dark for a while. Technically, you can do the same thing with Heatran (thanks to Level Max).

then again, I've always thought t-tar sucked, but that' my opinion.

Replies in bold. :3

I have to disagree with you on this one, Regis; Tyranitar has been playable for a while, and Godzilla has won a few tournaments. Now, with decks that are totally power-reliant (such as Luxray GL variants, particularly BlazeRay, Speedrill, and any deck that uses Claydol), Tyranitar has more of a chance to build up its energy flow. They can't just simply stop; their strategy would completely flop!

 

[tehmoe]

i dont see the point in playing it with T-tar, if your gonna do that you might as well play straight up T-tar since he'll be set up before charizard anyway or pretty much set up same time. his damage output vs attack consistency is better than charizards too. i'd rather be able to do 60-100 damage t3 every turn than 150 damage t3 not every turn. i mean i like the idea, dont get me wrong. it's definatly outside the box if anything i would make this straight up T-tar with like a 2-1 charizard g tech line or something for when things just arent goin your way and you wanna just shoot up w/e is blockin you.

 

[Austino]

Why not run charizard g with togekiss, ttar, heatran, and rotom!

That's only 5 spots right there and they totally power up charizard quickly!

Wait, it's inconsistent and doesn't actually go together, that's why it isn't done. Nothing personal, but I've seen ArmoredMewtwo post so many "ideas" like this it's ridiculous. RA posted a thread about NOT posting this stuff anymore. Posting illegitimate deck strategies just for discussion when they aren't even close to viable is borderline spamming.

Charizard G doesn't even run on dark energy and TTar ONLY gets dark energy out of the discard. That's like putting Sceptile SF into a Charizard G deck because it moves grass energy...it doesn't make sense and shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[emodicer]

Charizard G doesn't even run on dark energy and TTar ONLY gets dark energy out of the discard. That's like putting Sceptile SF into a Charizard G deck because it moves grass energy...it doesn't make sense and shouldn't even be a discussion.

Charizard only needs 2 Fire energies and 3 other Energies of any type to use Malevolent Fire. With Energy Gain attached to Charizard, Heatran and at least 1 Tyranitar on the bench (with enough Dark in the discard), you are almost guaranteed to be able to use Malevolent Fire every turn, regardless of the flip (almost, because of the ever useful Power Spray). In addition, he did not say that this will be a Tier 1 deck, anyway.

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

Why not run charizard g with togekiss, ttar, heatran, and rotom!

That's only 5 spots right there and they totally power up charizard quickly!

Wait, it's inconsistent and doesn't actually go together, that's why it isn't done. Nothing personal, but I've seen ArmoredMewtwo post so many "ideas" like this it's ridiculous. RA posted a thread about NOT posting this stuff anymore. Posting illegitimate deck strategies just for discussion when they aren't even close to viable is borderline spamming.

Charizard G doesn't even run on dark energy and TTar ONLY gets dark energy out of the discard. That's like putting Sceptile SF into a Charizard G deck because it moves grass energy...it doesn't make sense and shouldn't even be a discussion.

Austino, it really makes about as much sense as playing it with any of the other techs out there. Except this is actually capable of defending itself. On the note of your smarmy little comment about the techs..

1.) Togekiss could work alone with Charizard and Heatran.
2.) Anything with Rotom in the name is almost guaranteed to be terrible, even as a tech.

However, I am merely suggesting T-Tar with it. You're taking it way out of context.

The poster above me pretty much said what I was intending to say. Your comparison is insulting, and your very manner of going about this whole issue is out of line. If you have anything else to say about me or my threads, Austino, then you can message me. I'd rather not waste my time on such pointless arguments in public.

 

[Regis_Neo]

Replies in bold. :3

I have to disagree with you on this one, Regis; Tyranitar has been playable for a while, and Godzilla has won a few tournaments. Now, with decks that are totally power-reliant (such as Luxray GL variants, particularly BlazeRay, Speedrill, and any deck that uses Claydol), Tyranitar has more of a chance to build up its energy flow. They can't just simply stop; their strategy would completely flop!

Actually it's not too hard to not use Powers; you don't "have" to use Claydol continually for example, at least when I've faced t-tar decks in the past, denying yourself a Cosmic Power to deny your opponent free energy is perfectly feasible. Then again, I used Torterra to beat down t-tar decks, but that was me...now, I do agree that many decks rely on Poke-Powers, but a smart player will use them only if necessary, which isn't every turn, which in turns slows down t-tar. Also, pray tell what deck uses Blaziken PL, I've never seen any deck with it in it tbh...

And sure, T-tar may have won a few long ago, but it has been dead since what...after Cities at least? Even back then, I thought the deck was slow as heck if you carefully watched how you played your Powers...just my view though. Not saying this is a bad idea to pair with Zard G, just not that practical I think.

 

[ArmoredMewtwo]

Actually it's not too hard to not use Powers; you don't "have" to use Claydol continually for example, at least when I've faced t-tar decks in the past, denying yourself a Cosmic Power to deny your opponent free energy is perfectly feasible. Then again, I used Torterra to beat down t-tar decks, but that was me...now, I do agree that many decks rely on Poke-Powers, but a smart player will use them only if necessary, which isn't every turn, which in turns slows down t-tar. Also, pray tell what deck uses Blaziken PL, I've never seen any deck with it in it tbh...

And sure, T-tar may have won a few long ago, but it has been dead since what...after Cities at least? Even back then, I thought the deck was slow as heck if you carefully watched how you played your Powers...just my view though. Not saying this is a bad idea to pair with Zard G, just not that practical I think.

True enough.

The only deck I know of that currently uses Blaziken PL is BlazeTran.

As for T-Tar being dead, I do agree that it has been rather slow as of late. It's practically vanished from the tournament scene in many areas, which is what makes it brilliant, in a sense. LuxApe never really had to worry about anything other than the occasional Power Spray or Mespirit, but it could usually work around the two (namely because of the fact that SP Decks have low HP anyway and that they could outwait the Mespirit), whereas against Tyranitar they are commonly faced with the active (commonly T-Tar) simply sitting there and taking damage for as long as necessary , they give T-Tar energies (granted, they'll probably target a weakened Weavile or Claydol [unless a T-Tar's in KO range] and get a quick KO, but this could very likely lead to a revenge-KO next turn).

If nothing else, T-Tar is guaranteed to make a few return appearances in at least Juniors and Seniors, if not a rare showing in Masters, seeing as (like I said) there are definitely more powers used than before. Staraptor FB (which combos with Porygon, but meh), Charizard G, Absol G, Garchomp C, and Electivire FB are all shiny, new, and begging to be tested out by the younger groups.