Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Potential rulings loophole with Sableye

G

GrandmaJoner

Active Member
Ok, so I think this situation can arise at any point when a player has a Sableye and another basic in their opening hand, but in order to accentuate my point I will describe an extreme circumstance.




Suppose I am going into my swiss round match playing an opponent I know is using Kingdra or Machamp or something that has severe t1 knockout potential.

At the beginning of the game I open with a hand that includes Sableye, Baltoy, and Special Darkness Energy.

Might be an obvious choice to put Sableye first, however knowing my opponents strong t1 potential I think twice about it.

NOW, here is the problem:

If he only puts down ONE basic, I would likely want to put up Sableye to get the chance of FTKOing him and winning the game.

If he puts down TWO basics, I might reconsider and put up Baltoy to start, hope to lose the roll and go second, essentially eliminating his potential for a turn 1 KO.


WHO PUTS DOWN THE BASICS FIRST?????



I don't see how it could be fair for anyone to put down basics first in this situation. The only solution I see here (if there isn't one already) is both players writing down somewhere how many basics they are going to put down and showing it to their opponent at the same time.

This is obviously a silly and extreme solution but I don't really see what else can be done. Complications could arise if players Mulligan, etc.



Now in this I explained the most obvious situation, but there might be other times if you open with Sableye and another basic that you would like to know how many basics your opponent is opening with.



Any help would be appreciated, and if there already is a rule in place please inform me of it. Please ask me if you would like me to clarify anything. Thanks!
 
Your opponent should only put down a single basic and wait for you to put your starter down. You both now have the time until the starting coin flip to put down additional basics.

This is good principle all the time since there is never any need in giving the opponent information on your number of basics earlier than you have to.
 
I don't know if this is the way it should be done but we put down our starters face down. The we turn them over together.
 
Grandmajoner,

You can switch your starter anytime you want before you draw mulligan (if any). After you draw mulligan ( if any) you cannot make any changes to the active face down pokemon.
 
speeder said:
Grandmajoner,

You can switch your starter anytime you want before you draw mulligan (if any). After you draw mulligan ( if any) you cannot make any changes to the active face down pokemon.
Click to expand...

Err no you can't. If I place down a starting pokemon and my opponent does similar I can't just swap mine around for an alternative. Many players are a bit lax on this as are many judges. ( myself included). But after I've placed my prizes my starting pokemon is locked in place.

I'm trying to find the post by Mile Liesik (I think) that had the starting procedure laid out in more detail than the rulebook, but haven't found it yet.

edit found the thread on the gym, now I just have to find it on the other forum

http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=398869&postcount=18

From memory
  1. shake hands ( or offer other friendly greeting )
  2. shuffle
  3. draw your opening hand
  4. check for a basic (show your opponent after he places a basic down if you have none)
  5. place your active pokemon face down (you can place bench pokemon now if you want)
  6. place prizes
  7. draw any cards for your opponent's mulligans
  8. place any additional basics on the bench face down (not just restricted to muligan draw)
  9. flip to see who starts.
nothing in there about altering the active face down basic once it has been selected.
NO CHANGING YOUR ACTIVE
 
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The steps you state are correct. And there is nothing about NOT being able to alter the active face down basic. But since there is rule about not being able to change the basic after you draw your mulligan, but nothing about it before you draw your mulligan, until told otherwise, I am of the opinion that you can change your basic. And certainly you can do it before you lay out your prize cards.

Why do you say that you can't when there are no rules that prevent such a thing.

I'm interested to see how this discussion turns out.
 
NoPoke said:
From memory
  1. shake hands ( or offer other friendly greeting )
  2. shuffle
  3. draw your opening hand
  4. check for a basic (show your opponent after he places a basic down if you have none)
  5. place your active pokemon face down
  6. place prizes
  7. draw any cards for your opponents mulligans
  8. place any additional basics on the bench face down
  9. flip to see who starts.
nothing in there about altering the active face down basic once it has been selected.
NO CHANGING YOUR ACTIVE
Click to expand...

According to my knowledge, I thought "Flip to see who starts" is instead put after "Draw any cards for your milligans." The player going first puts their basics down second, and then the other play puts his or hers down. That's just what I've always thought, I dunno for sure, but it seems like a logical reasoning.

You're right though, once your active is down... it's locked in.
 
^ No you're prolly right :) I wouldn't doubt its extremely old, I haven't heard anything on it in a long time haha. I was refering to the bench Pokemon, though.
 
PUI simplified the rules for this that WotC had in place.
NoPoke is correct about the active.
Once you place your active, that is what stays as your active, unless of course your opponent gives you permission to redo it, but that is outside the rules.
 
ok. I learn something about this game everyday. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Not to be too technical. Very often, players will put one down, pick it up, look at it again, look at his hand, and change it . . . before prize cards. Is this procedure allowed or not? Is it literally, once you let go of it, it's down?
 
speeder said:
ok. I learn something about this game everyday. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Not to be too technical. Very often, players will put one down, pick it up, look at it again, look at his hand, and change it . . . before prize cards. Is this procedure allowed or not? Is it literally, once you let go of it, it's down?
Click to expand...

How would you handle it if a player has played a Pokemon during a tournament game and then decides after a minute that they want to pick it up?
 
speeder said:
ok. I learn something about this game everyday. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Not to be too technical. Very often, players will put one down, pick it up, look at it again, look at his hand, and change it . . . before prize cards. Is this procedure allowed or not? Is it literally, once you let go of it, it's down?
Click to expand...
Wow I didn't know you had seen me play. (make that try to play)

As long as the change is not delaying setup and is obviously part of the player's decision process then I don't get too worried about it. Telling your opponent that you are not sure which to select helps. However if you set a basic face down in the active position you should not be surprised if a watching judge thinks that you have made a choice and recommends that you stick with it. Think, Say, Do.
 
well, if you are vs kingdra and/or machamp, and you have a Sableye and another basic pokemon, wouldn't you always want to start with Sableye anyways? cos if they donk you, you will get donkedno matter which one you start with, might as well try go first, set up, and maybe even donk them, right ? and ofc you will always have to see what other trainer or supporters you have in you opening hands right ?
 
This is random but what happens when both players mulligan for their first draw? Would each player draw 8 cards, or 7?
 
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