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Premier Ratings/Rankings changes!

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Cross-Age-Group Match Ratings Change

After much research and discussion, the POP rules team has determined that it is in the best interest of the program for Cross-Age-Group Matches to no longer be rated. Our findings show that a significant portion of players who play a match against an opponent in an age group above their own will lose that match. This means that even a highly rated Junior player is at a severe ratings risk and disadvantage when playing against a Senior player.

We believe that this change is imperative to the integrity of the Premier Ratings System and is a fair and balanced decision for those players affected. Therefore, this will be implemented retroactively to the beginning of the City Championships series. Players can expect to see changes in their ratings shortly after this change is implemented.

Thank you for your continued support.
Pokémon Organized Play Staff


Ratings and Rankings Display Update

With the introduction of Premier Rating Invites, it has become more important for players to know more accurately where they stand in the rankings as the season progresses. Because Pokémon Organized Play allows players to opt in and out of ratings and rankings at their discretion, POP believes it is important that players who remain opted in throughout the season know where they actually stand against players who may not opt in until the last moment.

Therefore, effective immediately, all players will appear in the rankings list. However, those players who have not opted in will be displayed as “Not Opted In.” This will allow players to see that there are other players potentially ranked higher who could opt in and earn an invite, pushing some players out of the top rankings by earning those invites.

POP will not announce the date of the final Rankings pull until it has been completed. It will, however, take place be on a date after the final Premier event in a given Ratings Zone. Players not opted in to the Rankings prior to this pull will not be eligible for a 2007 World Championships invite and Travel Award.

Thank you for your continued support.
Pokémon Organized Play Staff


Decimal Rating Display

Effective immediately, POP will be displaying player ratings down to two decimal points. This will allow POP to better separate the rankings, avoiding some tiebreakers later on. We hope this change will help our players better track their own ratings and those of others rated close to them as they strive to earn an invitation to the World Championships in 2007.

Thank you for your continued support.
Pokémon Organized Play Staff
 
I don't understand the first part fully.(at least I hope I understand it wrong)

My son played most matched against Seniors and even Masters.
So as it looks now all those matches will not count (negative of positive).

We simply don't have enough Juniors and TOM pairs Juniors against Seniors even if there are Juniors available.
So if you are in a area with little to no Juniors, you will have a hard time getting ratingpoints.


I do like the second message, good choise to display all (hidden?) rankings.
 
Lia, I feel your pain, my kids were undefeated playing up, even knocking off some top ranked Masters, but it seems the most fair to have the Juniors Division decided by Juniors only, Seniors decided by Seniors only and Masters decided by Masters only.

Especially with so much at stake!

Will punish those who are playing out of their age group, at smaller events.

It does not appear that any ratings have changed, just put 2 decimals at the end, but tomorrow, when the change occurs, I really anticipate hearing some discussion!

Vince
 
Vince, I would have less problems if the TOM software is going to be adjusted too in this matter.
The software should pair any junior or senior against somebody in is own division (even if the 2-0 faces the 0-2 player).

example
4 players in juniors and 3 rounds to play, than they should all play each other before playing up on record, that should only be done if the tournament has 4 or 5 rounds.

I hope I made clear what I mean.
I know that's more round Robin than Swiss, but to be honest for those 2 divisions it would be more fair to play RR than to play and not gain any point.

I think Arnoud (however he doesn't need the point) is going to loose over 50% of them because of this change.
And on second thoughts also the Seniors who played against Juniors are going to be hurt a lot.
Is there really no other sollution on this?

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I am getting more and more upset about this.
From the 14 CC's we attended only 2 had enough players in each division and were not age-crossed.

I have to reconsider if I let my boys even attend to any tournament with not enough players to secure separate divisions. Sorry but it's a waist of time and money to go, if TOM keeps on pairing players outside their division at the moment there are still players inside that division they didn't play against.
 
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There is so much more to these issues than I can possibly explain.

We've had numerous suggestions about how we should handle this from here on out, and I'm sorry, but none of them really address all of the issues involved.

If we have a tournament with 2 juniors, 2 seniors and 2 masters, I've heard suggestions that essentially state "Just play them off against each other (within division) and award the prizes.

Tell me, if you're PUI/POP, how does this really sit with you, when you've spent a considerable amount of time, money, and resources on the materials, prizes, etc to have this event? If you're the players, you want to play one game and leave? Why wouldn't you want to play more games, even though only one would be rated?

"If one person shows up in an age group, just give them first place, and find something fun for them to do."

1) These kids want to play games.
2) One person is NOT A TOURNAMENT. With the change in the ratings system, the kid now gets to play through a full tournament, and is STILL the winner in his age group. There would have been no ratings points to be had anyway.

Moving on, we ran numbers on EVERY MATCH in our database. EVERY SINGLE MATCH from the very first season, up until the report was pulled. We found overwhelmingly, the players who play up an age division are at a HUGE disadvantage. We're talking over 70% of cross age group matches being won by the older player, regardless of rating or win expectancy. Ratings are based upon win expectancy, calculated from your rating. However, if your win expectency is now skewed by the fact that you're playing up, you're a sitting duck for someone to snipe a lot of rating points from you. This is simply unfair in a system in which ratings matter

Ratings should be a zero sum closed system, in which the average of all ratings equals exactly 1600. With cross age group pairings, suddenly, this is not exactly true anymore. Some rating points are being poached from lower age groups, into the upper age groups, and occasionally, vice versa. EACH GROUP should be a closed system for this ratings system, and therefore, the cross group matches are out of the ratings.

Thank you,
Dave
 
Nobody comes to a tournament to play only 1 round, playing "only" 3 is already disappointing for most players.
Yes Kids wants to play, but with the current software they are playing outside their divisions more often than inside and that's in my opinion something what might be subject to a change too.

Therefor my question about the software.
 
Rainbowgym said:
Nobody comes to a tournament to play only 1 round, playing "only" 3 is already disappointing for most players.
Yes Kids wants to play, but with the current software they are playing outside their divisions more often than inside and that's in my opinion something what might be subject to a change too.

Therefor my question about the software.
Click to expand...

IF there are any software updates that will happen in regards to this, they will not be implemented until next season.

If you do not think our events are worth attending, unless there are rating points on the line for each and every match, that is a call only you can make.

Thank you,
Dave
 
Yay for this!

I can't imagine how guilty I would feel having to play a 10-. At least this way, if points don't matter and if I know I won't cut, I can give him or her a win.
 
This is unbelievably cheap for those who played in tourneys with 20+ people in Masters and still got paired down against Seniors...

At least implement this next season and not in the middle of a season. Do you realize how demorilizing it is to work so hard to get to top 10 in NA and be knocked out of the top 10 taking a HUGE DROP, about 50 POINTS because of something that is suddenly implemented in the middle of the season because tournaments here are run differently (alot of cross age groups)
We get penalized for having huge masters turnout but less Seniors and Juniors?

Also, my brother who is a Senior now has a 5-2 tourney blow up to become a 1-2 becuase he won 4 MATCHES against MASTERS.

This is an utter outrage.
 
Rainbowgym said:
Nobody comes to a tournament to play only 1 round, playing "only" 3 is already disappointing for most players.
Yes Kids wants to play, but with the current software they are playing outside their divisions more often than inside and that's in my opinion something what might be subject to a change too.

Therefor my question about the software.
Click to expand...



I don't think a change in the software is what we should be looking for. Increased attendance is what we should all be after. The only way for players to play in their own divisions is to have enough players to do it. PTOs of events where cross-age-group pairings are a common occurrence will begin to feel some pressure to increase attendance.....
 
So we should expect a change in our ratings tomorrow? Or has it already happened?
Edit: Looks like the extra players have been added. There's decimals but they are all .00 and no change to ratings yet.
 
hey i played some pretty high ranked masters (im in Seniors) and i won. I got alot of good points from that so i was wondering if those points are going to be taken away?, or just from now on when i face a masters or juniors they wont count?
 
Professor Dav said:
If you do not think our events are worth attending, unless there are rating points on the line for each and every match, that is a call only you can make.

Thank you,
Dave
Click to expand...


Dave, I only spoke out loud the words a lot of people will be thinking.

And I call it a waist of time, due to some more differences.
Attending a tournament does cost me over $100 most times (gas/entrancefee/food) and with almost no players in the lower agegroups, therefor a pricesupport of almost nothing (2-3 boosters) and now also no rating points it simply is less attractive.
 
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Chromecatz said:
hey i played some pretty high ranked masters (im in Seniors) and i won. I got alot of good points from that so i was wondering if those points are going to be taken away?, or just from now on when i face a masters or juniors they wont count?
Click to expand...

Any matches played outside your age division will not count in the rankings...sorry.
 
Team Cook Mom said:
I don't think a change in the software is what we should be looking for. Increased attendance is what we should all be after. The only way for players to play in their own divisions is to have enough players to do it. PTOs of events where cross-age-group pairings are a common occurrence will begin to feel some pressure to increase attendance.....
Click to expand...

I am very much aware of that.
But living in a region were the "LD system" killed the younger divisions it's difficult to make that happen.
-------------------------


Something very positive is the display of all "not opted in" players.
Finally we can really discuss how many unique players there really are in each region, food for thoughts.
6565 unique players this season (meaby some less if they have a double POP id)
1609 juniors, 2012 seniors, 2937 masters. (which is not 6565 but 6558, so some players get lost somewere)
 
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So if I gained points from beating a Junior 5 weeks ago, I lose them?

Hypothetical question:

I'm at 1600 and beat a high ranked junior.(I'm in masters btw). My rating goes up to 1620. I beat my next opponent who is in masters to go to 1630.

If those 20 points are now taken away, will I gain more points from the second match since I would have been a lower rating than originally believed?

Sorry, it's hard to clarify what I'm asking.
 
I think POP has made a good decision, however, I am concerned with the Junior players who played in Age-Modified tournaments. Some of them have lost (retroactively) a lot of opportunities to increase their rating. The number of matches in which they can increase their rating will drop, and since there is a limit to how many points a person can gain per match, this is not fair to the Juniors (I bring up the Juniors, because they are almost always the smallest age group, from my observation, this decision affects the smallest age group the most).


moza said:
If I played against masters and lost, does that mean I will gain the points back?
Click to expand...
All the matches involving two different age groups are now null. It's like they didn't even happen.
 
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