Printed cards illegal?

[SD PokeMom]

http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/tournaments/docs/2008-2009/Tournament_Rules.pdf

section 14, 'materials allowed':

14.1.7. Fake Cards
Only genuine Pokémon TCG cards may be used in Pokémon Organized Play events. Any fake, reproduced, or counterfeited cards must be removed from all players’ decks before the start of the event. Those that are not will be subject to confiscation by the Tournament Organizer.

14.1.14. Proxies
Player-made proxies are considered to be fake cards and should be treated as such in all ways. Players should ensure that the cards in their decks are in good condition before attending an event so as not to create a marked card situation. See section 15.4 for further information on marked cards.
If a card becomes damaged during an event in such a way that results in the card becoming marked, a judge is allowed to create a proxy of that card to act as the damaged card in all ways for the remainder of the event. The damaged card must be retained to use as a reference when the proxy card is played. Alternately, if the player has another copy of that card is available for use the player can simply replace the damaged card with an undamaged copy.
In some cases a card is damaged due to a production error. Players should do their best to avoid playing with these cards, though sometimes that is not possible. If the judge feels that this creates a marked card situation, the judge may create a proxy card to act as the damaged card in all ways for the remainder of the event. The damaged card must be retained to use as a reference when the proxy card is played

if you're new to tourneys, it would be a good idea to look over the rules and resources page here: http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/tournaments/rulesandresources.html prior to your first tourney, to get an idea of what to expect.

hope this helps.
'mom

 

[Gowk]

Sorry for the junk post earilier.

But just to restate what has already been said;

League is cool for proxies, while every thing else (Besides home play) is a no no. It would be nice, but Pokemon would lose a lot of money or lose the ability to make money.

Plus the costs of printers would go up!

 

[Skeith]

I think if you look back you will see that the vast majority of the responses that you have gotten have been either neutral or helpful.
There are only one or two "poking fun", and even those very lightly.
People are very willing to help and are helping.

I was just really mad that now I spend some time finding these cards and spend a little bit more money than I expected. No Job = No Money

We aren't ridiculing you, heck, we won't do that. Believe me, I've seen many others who really does not know the rules.

However, to dedicate yourself into the game requires you to spend money to buy booster packs and cards - it'll be nice if you can get for free.:lol:

Short to say: YES, proxies are not legal in any tournaments - they are only good for friendly games. If you're looking for some cards to build a deck with, may I suggest you look it up at our Trading Post if you have cards for trade or Auction or Buyers House if you have the money to spend?

As a high school student without a job because I'm too young, and parents forbidding me from buying or trading with online people because "I don't know them" but I don't have problem with it lol

PEOPLE .. remember that YOUNG KIDS and people who have never played in organized tournaments POST HERE TOO!!!

So, just answer the question in the spirit of EDUCATING.
Avoid the "what? you don't KNOW??" approach guys. It really kills the SOTG environment.

Skeith.

League Play (and non-competitive games)

The confusion is that Proxies are allowed at league play because you're TESTING deck IDEAS. So, nobody really cares WHAT your cards look like.

Organized Tournaments:

In an organized tournament, you HAVE to have ONLY REAL CARDS because it's, pretty much, MY cards vs. YOUR cards. It's what I could find in my collection vs. what you can find in yours. It goes back to the ol' "my card collection is better than yours" mentality.

Retail Sale of Cards

Pokemon is a BUSINESS. The game drives the card sales. Pokemon wants to make money.

If you NEED to catch a card, you need to buy more packs to find it. That's more money for them.
If they REQUIRE you to have the REAL cards, then you need to buy MORE packs to catch that card.

Now, the commercial implication is that THE MORE YOU WANNA PLAY, the MORE CARDS YOU'LL NEED TO BUY. So, there's the REAL reason why proxies are not allowed. We buy cards. Nintendo can afford to offer organized play events. We buy. We play

TRADING

The good news is that you can TRADE to get the cards you need. It is a trading card game and Nintendo encourages trading. So, you can save alot of money swapping out cards w/ others (visit the TRADING POST section of this site).

I've spend an INSANE amount of money acquiring complete sets of all the diamond and pearl collections.
I have SO MANY cards. And, still, not enough of what I use (like.. Claydols!!). I, definately, feel your pain.
Only recently have I discovered the miracle that is the Trading Post!

So, look there for your solution.

Hope that helps.

Hopefully someone pulls something at league or I can trade for some. How long does sending the card take? Battle Roads for me is in 2 weeks.

 

[Zephyr]

I ordered a card and it got to me in 3 days. I'd plan for a week, though.

Do you have any friends that play the game competitively? If so, you should ask them if they have any cards you can borrow for the tourney. I have a lot of friends that play, and we basically have a giant pool of cards that we can all pull from. It's very convenient for getting everyone what they need, not to mention that it creates a much more relaxed environment.

Though, given your stated circumstances, if you don't have friends that play Pokemon, I'd say that your best chance of getting the cards you need is at league.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

If your parents do not want you to trade online with strangers, you have some choices.
(none is to do the trade without your parents consent... by the way...)

AS A PARENT... here's what I suggest you do.

Use this straight-up and honest approach:

You need to get your parents involved. Give them some involvement in your hunt for cards and HIDE NOTHING when it comes to info. One little 'left-out' detail, and you've lost their support.

1. You need an IN HAND LIST of the cards you need. That's the first question we ask "what EXACTLY do you need." We're talking an actual PIECE OF PAPER (handwritten) of set, number, and card name.
This shows them that you're actually putting forth an effort and you care about doing this.

Now.... you go the easiest route and work down from there ...

1. eBay - Ask your parents if they will order the cards from you on ebay. Tell them that you were hoping everyone can sit at the computer together and find the best price for the cards you need.
They will see how RIDICULOUSLY PRICED these cards that you need are (Claydol is up to $24)

2. Proposal - ask them if they'll buy you 10 packs of Great Encounters. If you can find the cards you need, then you're done. But... tell them if they're not in the packs, then the cheapest way to go is to take the cards that you've just cracked out of the packs and offer a trade for the claydols (i.e. "any 10 of these cards for a Claydol !! )

3. Online Trade - As with #1 eBay option above, ask your parents to sit with you and browse the TRADING POST forum on this site (the trades there are AMAZING). Make a Post "I NEED CLAYDOL AND SOME OTHERS PLEASE" or something like that. List what you have to offer and explain in your post that your parents will be overseeing your trades. DO NOT send to anyone that has NO REFS. REFS are names of people that have successfully traded with others and are concerned about you receiving your cards so they can add you to their own REFS list.

This reminds me that I need to update my OWN REFS list... lol


Hope this helps...

 

[NeoKay]

To the folks who've mentioned playing proxies at League--even that is forbidden around here. Why? Because then anyone could just churn a picture-perfect "Net Deck" out of their printer and wallop all the players who've painstakingly put together the best decks they could manage.

It can ruin the expected league environment pretty quickly...although if you've seen it work differently, I'd be interested to hear :tongue:

 

[Jason]

Here at my league, you cannot really use more than 3 different proxy cards for a deck.

 

[secretsof2113]

If you are looking to start trading, this is a great site for it. It you trade with people with high amounts of refs that are all positive, you'll end up getting the cards you need. If your parents don't trust someone, have them make a phone call to the person. I made a trade to a new user recently, and his mom didn't trust my refs and whatnot. I gave her my number, she called me, and we talked for a little while. Our trade was very smooth. A lot of us are willing to help out others.

 

[airconditioning]

To the folks who've mentioned playing proxies at League--even that is forbidden around here. Why? Because then anyone could just churn a picture-perfect "Net Deck" out of their printer and wallop all the players who've painstakingly put together the best decks they could manage.

It can ruin the expected league environment pretty quickly...although if you've seen it work differently, I'd be interested to hear :tongue:

Unless your league is comprised of new Juniors who can only build a deck with cards they've pulled from a few packs and a theme deck, that's just absurd. A good player who painstakingly makes the best deck he can manage is on at least equal footing as the player who proxies his cards- after all, the cards are the same, proxied or not. A bad player with an awesome netdeck won't get nearly as far as a skilled player with a good deck.

 

[Crosplat]

To the folks who've mentioned playing proxies at League--even that is forbidden around here. Why? Because then anyone could just churn a picture-perfect "Net Deck" out of their printer and wallop all the players who've painstakingly put together the best decks they could manage.

It can ruin the expected league environment pretty quickly...although if you've seen it work differently, I'd be interested to hear :tongue:

You know, most "Net Decks" really are not that incredible. Heck, I have tested against decks that people got from the Top Cut and beaten them. The fact of the matter is that a deck needs to be modified to fit your playing style first. Then, it takes a lot of time and practice

What your league does is stifle creativity by discriminating against those who do not have the means to invest in their deck ideas. I know I would definitely never try new decks if I had to own every card before I tried it.

There are people at my league that have shown up with a fully proxied deck from time to time because they cannot afford to try all their new concepts. Sometimes these concepts do well, and sometime they do not. While league is about having fun, it is about learning too. Learning what works and doesn't work is essential to becoming a good player. I personally like going to league and seeing a variety of "Net Decks" because it gives me practice for tournaments.

My personal experience with proxies is that they are very helpful. There is no way I invest money into a deck without being sure it works first. Proxies help me decide where to allocate my hard earned dollars.

Maybe those people could barely manage would be doing some walloping of their own if they were given the ability to experiment without limits.

 

[NeoKay]

Whoops, picked a bad example up there, in that it triggered a different topic than intended :redface:

I wasn't dissing Net Decks, or praising Net Decks, or anything. I was saying that people who don't own full playsets of stuff like Claydol and Leafeon Lv X tend to play with different decks based on what they do own. The fact that the game--as WotC and PUI sold it--has a monetary component as well as skill/luck components opens a whole can of philosophical worms...but it is how it is.

Testing a deck is one thing, especially just with friends, but it can devolve into not bothering to get the real cards. Besides, using proxies means when you finally pull that oh-so-rare card, it changes from a "Yay, I can build that deck I thought up!!" moment into a "Yawn, I can pitch one proxy" moment :lol:

Anyway, if anyone wants to PM me to debate, feel free ^_^ Don't want to divert the thread's intention here...

 

[Magic_Umbreon]

How is playing on Apprentice or RedShark any different to playing proxies at an unsanctioned unofficial league/tourney? If anything, using the proxies are better because you are still promoting the game and location that way. I think there is nothing wrong at all with proxies, however there is something wrong with breaking the rules or spirit of the game. So if you're not allowed to use proxies, as has been stated for standard tournaments, then that is the reason why.

I have a lot of respect for you for asking and keeping dignity. The "noobs" here are those that ask a question and then ask their thread to be closed when it doesn't take the direction they want. You haven't done that as some people may have done, you are not a noob.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

As a high school student without a job because I'm too young, and parents forbidding me from buying or trading with online people because "I don't know them" but I don't have problem with it lol

For this I would ask them the following. I need cards for my deck but a lot of people in my area don't have the cards I need. I really would appreciate if you would let me trade online. I know you don't want me to, but give me a trial run. If the first one or two go well wouldn't you consider letting me be able to trade online?

That is just what I would do, but I don't know if your parents will fly for that, but most will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you the shot if you ask in a mature manner and give them a reason to be able to feel that you won't get majorly ripped off.

Hope that helps,
Drew

 

[Rogue Archetype]

If you are looking to start trading, this is a great site for it. It you trade with people with high amounts of refs that are all positive, you'll end up getting the cards you need. If your parents don't trust someone, have them make a phone call to the person. I made a trade to a new user recently, and his mom didn't trust my refs and whatnot. I gave her my number, she called me, and we talked for a little while. Our trade was very smooth. A lot of us are willing to help out others.

Good tip. :thumb:

 

[Skeith]

I did exactly as you said rogue and everyone else who gave me tips. I soon as I said online, the word "NO" blurted out before I was finished. I don't see why I asked because I knew they were going to say. I either find at league this weekend or I won't be able to play at Battle Roads next week.

 

[Crosplat]

Tell your parents to read what people posted, and maybe have them contact some of the big traders. I have met a lot of people on this site in real life, and for the most part they are good people. Tell your parents that you will only trade with people who have numerous good refs. If I were you, I would show them the website first.

If all this does not work, try getting your parents to forward you some money. Say that you will pay them back with interest at a later date, just like how real banks do it.

 

[DukeFireBird]

Well you could play the guilt card...

Say that your preventing me from enjoying my hobby by not allowing me to get the cards I need.

If your mom/dad have any questions referring to the way online trading works, please HAVE THEM ASK US!!!

A few things to show them would be the trading ref thread (especially the ones of the people who are your friends IRL)
Worst case, you could do a mediator trade (getting a 3rd party involved, and they wait until both sides of the trade come in, and that person verifys it and sends the cards on to their respective destinations)
Your parents are just being protective of you and your stuff, and they dont want to see you scammed, or ripped.

check with the people online who have stuff you want/need, and try to arrange that they send first (this may be difficult because you will have 0 refs, and they most likely will.) and then after you receive, you send out your part, and guess what, you get a ref!!!. Do this a few times, and you will be acknowledged as a responsible trader.

The key thing is responsibility, and all parents want their children to be responsible.

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me, or ask em here, and we will be happy to help you out in the best way we can.

~Duke

 

[Rogue Archetype]

I did exactly as you said rogue and everyone else who gave me tips. I soon as I said online, the word "NO" blurted out before I was finished. I don't see why I asked because I knew they were going to say. I either find at league this weekend or I won't be able to play at Battle Roads next week.

OK. Then, they've hit the point where it's pretty much

"I ALREADY SAID NO!!! AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT !!"

NEXT option ..

GRIND FOR IT

It's time to Mow lawns, do odd jobs around the area, Paper Route, Grocery Store Bagger, Resturant dishwasher.

If your parents see you actally trying to EARN money to support your hobby, they may start to respect you desire to pursue success at Pokemon.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Here at my league, you cannot really use more than 3 different proxy cards for a deck.

Ours too, seems pretty popular.