Pulse Barrier and Unown G

[japple52]

I had a question about the ruling below.

Q. If Electivire Lv.X uses "Pulse Barrier" to discard tools against a Defending Pokemon with Unown-G's "GUARD" attached, does the Unown-G get discarded or does "GUARD" prevent that effect?
A. The Unown-G would prevent Pulse Barrier's effect of discarding tools, so it would stay attached. But Unown-G does not prevent any tools attached to other Pokemon from being discarded. (Mar 20, 2008 PUI Rules Team)

Before my question, let’s compare the following attacks:

Pulse Barrier
Discard all of your opponent's Pokemon Tool cards and Stadium cards in play. If you do, prevent all effects, including damage, done to Electivire during your opponent's next turn.

Psychic Lock
During your opponent's next turn, your opponent can't use any Poke-Powers on his or her Pokemon.

Now, Unown G doesn't prevent Psychic Lock's effect on the Pokemon it’s attached to because it's ruled that the effect is on the player (i.e. your opponent specified in the attack). Why does Pulse Barrier's effect, which also specifies the player with the same "your opponent's" text, be prevented by Unown G?

Both attacks specify a player, yet the ruling on the attacks differ. What is the logical behind the difference in rulings? To me, the rulings on these attacks should be the same.

Thanks,

 

[Rai]

Unown-G does not prevent any tools attached to other Pokemon from being discarded.
If there were any other tools or stadiums in play, Unown G wouldn't be able to block their discard, and thus card which Unown-G was attached to would be unable to damage Electivire.

As for why Unown itself can't be discarded... Though Pulse Barrier and Psychic Lock have similar wording, their effects work on different areas.
Psychic Lock stops the abstract concept of using any powers at all. The effect really can't be applied to any card in particular, and can't be removed during the next turn. Thus we say it's putting an effect on the opponent.
Pulse Barrier doesn't stop anything. You can still play tools after it's been used once. What it does, is destroy the tangible cards on the field. You apply the effect of Pulse Barrier to specific cards and discard them. Pulse Barrier does not constantly discard any tool or stadium the opponent plays during their next turn, thus it does not put an effect on the player.

That'd be my logic for that ruling, anyways.

 

[NoPoke]

It is a very good question.

Right now the best answer I could give would be that the difference is that it is your opponent who initiates the use of pokemon-POWERS for Psychic Lock so is a legitimate target for the effect. While for Pulse Barrier there are no tools attached to the opponent so the target for the effect is the pokemon on the field.

"your opponent" is used to signify that only one half of the arena is effected, and not to specify the target for the effect.

Come back Magby and the Sputter meta rule, all is forgiven LOL

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

NoPoke I'm not so sure that "your opponent" is used to signify which half of the field is affected.

 

[japple52]

I understand that the two attacks mentioned have different effects, but the wording as to who or what is being effected is the same.

Let's look at Unown G's Guard Poke-Power as it pretains to the conversation.

….As long as Unown G is attached to a Pokemon, prevent all effects of attacks, excluding damage, done to that Pokemon.

Pulse Barrier states its effect is on "the opponent," not the Pokemon. It does effect the Pokemon with Unown G attached, but I don't see how that's different than Psychic Lock.

Also, I don't think Psychic Lock's effect is abstract because if Psychic Lock read “the defending Pokemon can't use Poke-Powers during your next turn,” then surely, Unown G would prevent this, which makes the concept of using Poke Powers easy to qualify.

It just seems like a strange ruling.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

"your opponent" is used to signify that only one half of the arena is effected, and not to specify the target for the effect.

NoPoke - I see what you're saying, but the same statement can be applied to Psychic Lock too. Yes, a player initiates Poke-Powers, but those Poke-Powers are on Pokemon, as are the tools being discarded by Pulse Barrier.

Here's another issue I have with the ruling on Pulse Barrier:

Smash Shot doesn't discard Unown G. Given the wording on the attack, this makes sense. If Psychic Lock specified the active Pokemon, not the opponent, then Unown G would prevent this effect as well. In essence, the ruling on Pulse Barrier is adding or changing the effect of the attack by distinguishing the "active Pokemon" from "your opponent's," which overall weakens it.

 

[NoPoke]

japple, try to figure out how else the attacks could specify your opponents half of the arena (ownership then for VG ). Its difficult to avoid using the words your opponents. So the trap is laid for us and we have to resort to rullings from Japan for guidance.

The majority of effects target Pokémon, there was a time when ALL effects targeted Pokémon: Disconnect ruined that though. If Psychic Lock were to target the Pokémon it might say something like "Pokémon-POWERS on each of your opponents' Pokémon cannot be used until the end of your opponents' next turn. Benching or evolving any Pokémon does not remove this effect."

japple it may also help if you first try to decide which of the two rullings you think is correct.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

NoPoke ... I think that this is part of the problem. I think that some folks have decided what they thing is correct first. Reading the card it isn't so clear to me right off the bat. By the wording alone I tend to think that this is an effect on the opponent ... but I'm also wondering if translation issues might be a factor here.

 

[japple52]

japple, try to figure out how else the attacks could specify your opponents half of the arena. Its difficult to avoid using the words your opponents. So the trap is laid for us and we have to resort to rullings from Japan for guidance.

Yes, the wording "your opponent's" is needed to clearly clarify how the attack works. I could most likely come up with some convoluted and confusing text that doesn't use "your opponent's," but that wouldn't be helpful. The ruling on Pulse Barrier just doesn't fit the wording given, especially when compared with the ruling on Psychic Lock. If that's how it was ruled in Japan, then I guess that's what was intended, regardless of the wording.

I thoughts on the two attacks are such:

Both Psyhic Lock's and Pulse Barrier's effects are on the player, hence Unown G doesn't prevent them. Here's my logic:

Guard
….As long as Unown G is attached to a Pokemon, prevent all effects of attacks, excluding damage, done to that Pokemon.

Pulse Barrier
Discard all of your opponent's Pokemon Tool cards and Stadium cards in play....

Psychic Lock
During your opponent's next turn, your opponent can't use any Poke-Powers on his or her Pokemon.

Both Pulse Barrier and Psychic Lock effect the player (i.e. your opponent) and Guard protect's against effects to the Pokemon, hence shouldn't stop either attack's effect.

Oddly, Pulse Barrier's effect isn't even on the opponent's Pokemon, it's on the Pokemon Tool cards, which is even more of a reason that Unown G shouldn't prevent this effect. Psychic Lock reads ...on his or her Pokemon. Hm....

If Electivire Lv.X was played more, I'd think this ruling would be looked into more becuase it really doesn't make sense.

Thanks,