Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Rare Candy Question...

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I think I found a ruling that might help with the rare candy ruling.

Pokemon Chat Report - Thursday, November 30, 2000
by Ka-Lok Fung - Scrye Contributing Editor
Contributions by CHRISBO of Team Compendium

master_trainer_mike says, "Erika's Clefairy has an attack called Lunar Power, that has you flip a coin, If heads, search your deck for a card that evolves from 1 of your Benched Pokemon and put that card on that Pokemon. (This counts as evolving that Pokemon.) You CAN play this attack on the first turn and you can even choose a Pokemon on your Bench that you just played this turn. This attack (like Koga's Kakuna's Emerge Pokemon Power or TR Magikarp's Rapid Evolution attack) all break the standard "can't evolve turn 1 or the turn it was played" rule."

master_trainer_mike says, "To make it easier to understand, the standard evolution rules (Can't evolve turn 1 or the turn it was played) deal with the standard means of evolving; meaning taking the next Stage Pokemon from your hand and placing it on a Pokemon. Since these attacks and powers have you take a card from your deck and place it, they are NOT stopped by the standard evolution limits. This also falls under the term "played". Aerodactyl's Pokemon Power "Prehistoric Power" says No more Evolution cards can be played. The above attacks and powers would NOT be affected by this as those cards are not "played" (meaning played from your hand)."
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Hmmm, interesting.
 
How about this as a common rule:

Evolution Cards that are played from your hand must follow all rules of Evolution. Even if its through a trainer card or Pokemon Power/Attack.

Evolution Cards that are played from the deck do not follow the rules of evolution. Therefore they can be played on the first turn/when you just play the Pokemon.

Does that seem to cover most of the situations, both old and new?
 
Well, that makes it clear as mud. Let's see. The questions on Rare Candy's mechanic are as follows:
  • Can this break the standard evolution rules? Meaning, can this Trainer allow a player to Evolve a Pokemon on the first turn of the game/ first turn this card is in play?
  • Does this Trainer ignore game effects that would normally prohibit Evolving? For example, can this Trainer bypass Aerodactyl's Prehistoric Power?
  • Can you use this Trainer to skip a stage of evolution, or only to move to the one directly following?
OK. Now, what ruling supports each possible answer to these questions?
  • This Trainer does not say you can break the standard evolution rules, nor does it say you cannot. There is no precedent for assumption, since all Trainers that affected Evolution before (Pokemon Breeder, Giovanni) answered this question in their text.
  • Here, I believe it is safe to say that it does not. Why? Because you are still playing the Evolution card from your hand -- which means you are evolving with the standard method, which is affected by these effects.
  • As far as skipping a stage of evolution, a literal interpretation of the wording says no. However, if the answers to the first and second questions are both no, then the answer to this question must be yes, or the Trainer doesn't do anything. Since a card that literally does nothing under any circumstances would not be printed, and if it were, it would do it much more simply, this card must do something.
Still clear as mud, right? Well, basically, this means that, if my logic is correct, then one of the following is true.
  • You can evolve a Pokemon the first turn it is in play, but only by one stage. This effect, though powerful, is not necessarily unbalanced in and of itself. However, in combination with certain cards, it could become unbalanced.
  • You can skip a stage of evolution, either going from Baby Pokemon to Stage 1 or Basic Pokemon to Stage 2, provided you would otherwise be allowed to evolve the Pokemon. This version makes Rare Candy a very slightly more powerful version of Pokemon Breeder, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. This interpretation is the most balanced of these three.
  • You can evolve on the first turn the Pokemon is in play AND you can skip a stage of evolution. This interpretation I doubt, because it is extremely overpowered for any format.
 
Well, here's my theory-the card is badly worded. Of course, it makes perfect sense to the person who wrote it- he or she probably intended for it not to break the 1st turn rule and to allow basic to stage 2 direct evolution, and thought the card was adequately worded to that effect. Obviously not.
 
I think its obvious now that this card does NOT by-pass the rule on evolution on the first turn nor does it by-pass the no evolution on the turn you played the basic.

I don't know why but the only ruling left would have to be if it is basically the same as a breeder (I.E. Stage 2 onto Basic). Based on the card text its almost obvious that it can work just like a Breeder. If the card said "Take a Pokemon that DIRECTLY evolves from the Basic" then I can understand how it couldn't but it says a Stage 2 that Evolves from the Basic. It doesn't say directly evolves from the basic, just evolves from the basic. And all stage 2 Pokemon evolve from a Basic.
 
Kyogre: Yes it does cover all situations but it redefines 'played' in order to achieve that result. I suspect that would open up another can of worms ;) In particular it changes some of the existing rulings in the compendium. So though it IS an appealing rule its impact is wide reaching.

At the moment the only outstanding issue is if the 'evolves from' text on the card limits the selection of the stage 1 or stage 2 as per the normal rules of evolution. On the one hand we are told that the card does not break normal evolution rules because it doesn't state that it does, and on the other hand we have the evolution chain example used by MTJimmer in his explanation that Pichu can't evolve into Electabuz Ex. I too would use a long chain in order to emphasize the point at which the chain breaks. But if you take MTJimmer's example as proof that the card breaks the normal evolution rules (like breeder) then his initial statement that the card doesn't break the normal evo rules is plainly incorrect.

Pokemon we were often told by MTM is a collection of rulings. I'm reasonably happy with that as long as we have rules and rulings that cover anticipated play situations. To my mind the 'evolves from' issue on Rare candy is not yet closed. I'm currently racking my ancient brain to see if I can think of a way of abusing/breaking the new interpretation of 'evolves from'.

As to your second post I did indicate 6 scenarios with possible YES NO answers against each. As I stated in that earlier post the only issue outstanding is can Rare Candy be used like breeder or is it another Lt surge's Secret plan
 
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How about this:
"Evolves From" Also known as "Matching Pokemon": A Pokemon that is either a Stage 1 or Stage 2 that has a common Basic counterpart. I.E. Charizard and Charmeleon are the "Evolved forms" of Charmander. Charmander is the "Matching Pokemon" for Charizard and Charmeleon.

Thats just my idea but is there an older ruling that explains what "Evolves From" in the Compendium that I haven't heard about?
 
Kyogre you are proposing NEW rules rather than interpreting/clarifying what we currently have. I can fix problems by introducing new rules too :D.

The compendium doesn't have much to say about the term 'evolves from' since it was never an issue before Rare Candy.

Why would Charizard for example say on the card that it 'evolves from Charmeleon' if it equally evolves from charmander. The simplest explanation is that Charizard doesn't evolve from Charmander.

Imagine a new player who you are coaching. They played Charmander last turn and this turn they play Charizard ontop of their Charmander. No you can't do that you explain. Why they ask? Because Charizard evolves from Charmeleon would be the reply! If rare Candy allows Charizard to evolve from Charmander then the explanation of what evolving entails just got that much harder.

remember that BAD CARDS exist: Rare Candy might be one of them despite its initial promise.

[I'm still hoping that it is a breeder in disguise. But it hasn't been confirmed yet ;) ]
 
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This IS confirmed. Mtjimmer has said it's a breeder. No 1st turn. Yes basic to stage 2. That is what it is until Mtjimmer changes it. Unless he does, the options of the card are just like Breeder.
 
Kyogre: I disagree about your statement that it is "obvious" that Rare Candy doesn't break the first turn evolution rule. We have a ruling but it is still being disputed and is in conflict with older rulings.
For now I'll follow MTJ's initial ruling, but I still want to go over this topic more thoroughly, especially comparing it to Wally's Training and the older "counts as evolving" cards.
I don't see how the card could not allow you to put a stage 2 right on the basic. It says right on the card to choose a basic pokemon and put onto it either a stage 1 or a stage 2.
 
Mr. Grass: Yeah I guess it isn't so obvious right now. I am just taking MTJimmer's ruling as the official one.

I just think that it is a breeder, nothing more.
 
Pidgeotto Trainer said:
This IS confirmed. Mtjimmer has said it's a breeder. No 1st turn. Yes basic to stage 2. That is what it is until Mtjimmer changes it. Unless he does, the options of the card are just like Breeder.
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WHERE????

I can't find any statement by MTJimmer that 'it is just like breeder'

So show me where MTJimmer says 'its just like breeder' and I can sleep happily ;)
 
Someone Email MTJimmer or somebody that knows whether or not this is a breeder...
 
It's on page 2 on this topic. He says it doesn't break the first-turn rule. Quite clearly putting a stage 2 on a basic as it says in the text means its like a breeder. This is already being confirmed by others. Big Daddy Snorlax said that as well today! The only thing that seems in question are all these baby matters.
 
Well then why are some people like NoPoke still wondering if it can work as a breeder?
 
I believe this text confirms it:

"You play Rare Candy on Wurmple. You have Dustox in your hand. How do you know it is the Stage 2? In your head, you think 1 of 2 ways...either up the chain, or down the chain.

Wumrple -> Cascoon -> Dustox; or,
Dustox from Cascoon from Wurmple.

The only place it defines what it evolves from his Dustox down, correct? That's how you've learned it from looking at the cards. (One of the differences of coming from *playing* the TCG or GBA.)"-MTJimmer
 
Well, its OBVIOUS it's just a new breeder, isn't it? If it says "Put a stage 1 or 2 on the BASIC Pokemon", what more do you need?
 
Android17a said:
Well, its OBVIOUS it's just a new breeder, isn't it? If it says "Put a stage 1 or 2 on the BASIC Pokemon", what more do you need?
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No offense, but if it's so obvious, then why are we now on page 6 of this thread?
 
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