Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Reinventing the Mulligan System

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Sabett said:
How does this address our current discussion? BTW, perfect? As in absolutely flawless? So you find no flaw in losing without anything to do about it, or that there's no decision making in it, where in other popular tcg, there are? Care to elaborate?
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Sabett, you don't have to respond to everyone's thoughts. Just because they don't agree with you, doesn't require you to respond in such an adverse way. We all have our "World According to <insert name here>" and we need to hear others opinions without challenging every decenting voice.

My suggestion is to allow someone to give their opinion, and don't challenge them in this way. Give your opinion. I haven't been a model pokegym member on this thread either, but we need to lighten up this debate, and respond in a manner that makes this enjoyable.

I can't remember such a nasty tone in a thread.
 
SLOW DECK said:
Sabett, you don't have to respond to everyone's thoughts. Just because they don't agree with you, doesn't require you to respond in such an adverse way. We all have our "World According to <insert name here>" and we need to hear others opinions without challenging every decenting voice.

My suggestion is to allow someone to give their opinion, and don't challenge them in this way. Give your opinion. I haven't been a model pokegym member on this thread either, but we need to lighten up this debate, and respond in a manner that makes this enjoyable.

I can't remember such a nasty tone in a thread.
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I just really don't like posts that people make without really reading the thread, or add to the current discussion. I didn't respond to him because they disagreed with me, although I typically censor my responses to dissenting posts, I responded because of his lack of elaboration and explanatory rational.

I'm all for people expressing themselves on this thread, it's the lack once tried, I find almost insulting.
 
PPM's post was absolutely fine! Succinct posts often annoy the long-winded. The Master was great at it some 2000 years ago.:thumb:

SLOW DECK pretty much elaborated on what PPM commented regarding over-use of tech/setup Pokemon. PPM just echoed that oppinion.

No one prefers to start with Uxie, Azelf, or UnownG, yet many decks include those Pokemon to help set up, to inspect/retrieve key prize cards, and to counter some attacks. For some decks and matchups, they are absolutely essential, yet they have their drawbacks (non-prefered starters).

Additionally, everyone knows that trainers/techs make winning decks. However, such decks require fewer basics and energy, which can be a drawback during start-up under the current mulligan system.

So, PPM and SD have pointed out these concepts -- one concisely, one elaborately. If the goal of the designers is to inspire deck builders to focus on good starters and fewer trainers/techs, then an optional mulligan might indeed be a detriment to that goal.

The game designers have had over 10 years to consider ways to improve the game. I'm almost sure that optional mulligans have crossed their minds at least once. If so, there must be a valid reason they've not added it to the game. Maybe, you think?
 
Muk Man said:
You can run a pokemon deck with no techs and a perfect 4-4-4 line of whatever pokemon you choose

You can pile shuffle, wizard shuffle, regualr shuffle, play "52 pick-up) then let your opponent cut your deck

And i will gaurentee that in a tournament you will start with a hand so bad it contradicts all laws of average


i'll never forget, i was playing a ninetails deck with 19 energy in it. plus 4 castaway which lets you search for energy, and 4 roseannes which lets you search for energy...thats equilivent to 27 energy cards plus the 4 turns i drew a card...

thats 31 cards out of a 60 card deck, and i never drew into a single energy and only 2 energy were prized.

No amount of skill can prevent Bad Starts ,Bad Hands, or Bad Luck...in fact i built a deck that was based on Causing Bad Hands (Stantler:thumb:)

So in extreme cases where you have a mespirit, baltoy, unown G, azelf, Regice, or worse...unown Q start with no play options, i'll take a 5-or 6 card optional mulligan EVERY time
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This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say, and I know just how you feel in that ninetails situation.

In a game I played in regs with Palkia lock, I had a similar situation happen.

In my deck I had

11 energy (all but 4 basic)
4 Roseanne
4 Cyrus
1 Cynthia

I play Cynthia after a KO (started with no energy) and draw for 8. No energy... Next turn I manage to uxie for 6 cards, and STILL don't get any energy. None of my energy were prized. Needless to say, I would have willingly taken the optional mulligan in that game, since my opening hand was horrible in just about every way possible.

Really, no amount of "skill" can bring you out of a situation like that. Stop saying it can, because it really can't. What? How the heck do I get out of that when I can't even attack?

I'm sick and tired of set up being so luck based. Please let us have the chance for it to be a little better with 1 optional mulligan.
 
NO! They're not going to nearly auto-guarantee you to set up your SP deck on the first/second turn every game, a deck overloaded with trainers and techs.

As has been pointed out, bad starts happen for two main reasons -- bad luck and deck construction. One optional mulligan will help mitigate bad luck. Now, work a bit more on deck construction to see if you can lessen the number of bad starts even further. After each deck I make, I always playtest to see what kind of opening hands I get. If I get an unacceptable number of bad opening hands, I re-construct and re-test.
 
SteveP said:
NO! They're not going to nearly auto-guarantee you to set up your SP deck on the first/second turn every game, a deck overloaded with trainers and techs.

As has been pointed out, bad starts happen for two main reasons -- bad luck and deck construction. One optional mulligan will help mitigate bad luck. Now, work a bit more on deck construction to see if you can lessen the number of bad starts even further. After each deck I make, I always playtest to see what kind of opening hands I get. If I get an unacceptable number of bad opening hands, I re-construct and re-test.
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There was nothing wrong with my list. In fact, it was among the most consistent decks I've ever used. It was just 1 random weird hand. I would very much like to have the option to potentially get out of that dead hand that happens every so often.
 
Legos is a pretty inconsistent deck imo, if it gets oing its a pain for your opponent but it just urns so many stuff that can ruin your start...
 
Sorry DarthPika, I misread your post and thought you were advocating unlimited or multiple mulligans. I agree that 1 optional mulligan can help mitigate the bad-hand starts. Plus, I failed to see that with the few cards you listed, you had at least a 30% chance of getting energy within your first/second turn. IMO, 11 energy is still a bit low, but I refuse to build SP decks, so maybe that's an acceptable amount? Don't know. Personally, I hover around 14 energy for my decks. Before Roseanne's came out, it was higher.
 
I have looked at all of my lists that I have ran and won with. I have never won with a deck that played 11 energy, ( you do have 4 Rose's and 4 Cyrus... that isn't too bad in one sense,) but I haven't been able bring myself to run an SP deck at less than 12, and I am still ussually at 13, plus the 4/4 Rose/Cyrus.

I believe in consistent decks, MISSING energy drops is just KILLER in this game and ALWAYS will be.

I finished 13th in Grinder at Worlds for Bubble Boy with Flygon Queen, 14 energy+4 Roseannes+3/4 Claydoll
I won 4 cities last year with Regi-Mesprite lock deck, I had 13 energy.+Roseannes+4 uxie, massive speed engine.
I won a Regionals and Top 4 at US Nationals a few years ago with a Rayquazza delta EX sniper, 16 energy+4 Castaway.
I was the first to win a states with with Lunatone-Solrock, (how does that win folks said...) I ran 16 energy.
I am the creator Uxie Double Donk with only 2 energy cards in the deck.... I know how to create consistent deck, and such, and am not held to traditional 12 energy logic. This bad luck talk drives me crazy, because deck building brings it own luck. I think the only event where one should push there luck into potential inconsistency is at Worlds, where you know all the players are going to be top notch. Then you need the luck to avoid the inconsistency that a tight build will bring, but you need those techs to beat those solid builds and players.

I personally thought Palkai lock was too inconsistent for my liking, I could never build it to meet my consistency standards. You probably did a better job with your build than I did, but I have a high standard for consistency made me think it was too inconsistent to keep a lock going. In my grinder run, I beat a Palkai Lock that failed, and lost to a Palkai lock that worked, the other loss was a Sableye/Crobat turn1 without me having a turn.

I say all of this to point to how I am bent on playing this game, designing conssitent decks, and winning.

Anyhow.... I look at my SP builds, I am at 13 energy.. you are at 11.... I don't run 13 energy because I wouldn't have energy on most games... It is because I think the deck fails less if you run 13. Again, all of the pokegym members post decks with 10-12 energy... But I am more conservative on that aspect.
 
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i know that im gonna get torn down for this... but here i go anyway...

There are no GLARING problems with the current mulligan system. every tcg i have ever played, there have been bad losses due to a horrible start. and while i admit, it does completely suck to have an uxie start, its just a part of the game that EVERYONE has to deal with(Does that make it fair? maybe not. but its just something you have to deal with).

I also enjoy miniatures games(Hordes in particular) as i see them as almost purley skill and strategy, but there are times that luck has completly ruined my chances of winning(ie. needing a 4 on 3 dice and rolling all 1's).

My point is, that the current mulligan system is largly the luck(IMO the same as a fainting spell flip, etc.) and its just something that people are going to have to live with.

-Lawso
 
Lawso42 said:
i know that im gonna get torn down for this... but here i go anyway...
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No one should tear you down for stating your opinion. In fact, history sides with your opinion about the current mulligan system being okay.

In another TCG I play (Lord or the Rings - LOTR), the 1-only optional mulligan rule was added just months after the game was initially released. For Pokemon, it's been over ten years since it's initial release and apparently, TPCi has not seen a major problem with the current mulligan system. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be an improvement, but as with any change, it's not always that simple and smooth to implement.

There are many ways to improve a game. I'm convinced this is one of them, but I'm not the one that needs convincing, nor are most (if not all) of the readers on this topic.
 
TPCi never sees any problems. :/

Seriously, when was the last time they actually asked the players what they thought needed some improvement?
 
When they brought back the 15+ division that WotC did away with?
It's been somewhere around four years since I've played a game of Pokemon, so I honestly don't know the most recent thing they have done, but that one will always stick with me as a pretty big one.

Honestly, if you seriously feel that there is simply no way that TPCI is going to listen to you, why are you shouting so loudly for change to people who have no more control over TPCI than you do?
 
Back when they instituted the new league promos, giving newer players cards that are extremely hard to get?

UXIE?

CLAYDOL?
 
DarthPika said:
TPCi never sees any problems. :/

Seriously, when was the last time they actually asked the players what they thought needed some improvement?
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Foreign cards?

15+?

League Promos?

Prize tournaments?

Yeah, they *really* don't like listening to the players :nonono:...
 
Foreign cards that were banned before they even asked us about it. Great... they let us keep some of them. It doesn't change the fact that the situation was very poorly handled. They didn't even ask the players about this.

Wasn't around for that. Good for them. They get a cookie.

I suppose that's pretty good... Wish there was actually a way to get them if you don't have a league.

Which have been having larger and larger attendances, yet the prizes remain the same. ( I don't have a huge problem with this, but just point it out)

Some more I would like to point out...

STILL no info on invite structure. If they come out with something cool and new, then I'm happy. If not, then I can't wait to see their excuse for why it's taken so long just to copy/paste old one into this season.

No info on nats location.

No say in where nats is...

No say on worlds location

Horrible promo for winning BR - Japan gets awesome stuff, there's no reason why we shouldn't get the same.

No regulations at all for CCs, even though they made States and Regs 2 and 1 day events.

The game is growing every year, yet the amount of invites stays the same.
 
Wow! Someone decided to turn this decent discussion into a rant. TPCi certainly won't listen to players who petition for improvements, when those players then bash them for whatever negative reasons they can derive.

TPCi listens. They might not often respond publically, but I know they aren't "sitting on their laurels" either.

@DP: Hopefully, you can recognize that TPCi has accomplished much to accomodate and improve OP for all involved -- players, organizers, judges, professors, and parents. Obviously, players are the most important part of OP, but they are not the only part. They must be doing something right if (in your own words) the game is growing -- don't you think?
 
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bullados said:
Foreign cards?

15+?

League Promos?

Prize tournaments?

Yeah, they *really* don't like listening to the players :nonono:...
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I LOLD HARD

Name one time where they LEGITIMATELY asked the playerbase and made the decision based on it. 15+ wasn't based on player input, it was based on common sense. Though it was a good thing they did it, it wasn't based on player input. League promos, to my knowledge, wern't based on player input, if they were, post a link to some info about it. I don't understand what prize tournaments means. If its the prize support, then I really hope thats not based on player input, because, as stated, the player base and sales keep going up but the prizes don't.
 
Is it really that much to ask for 1 stupid little optional mulligan allowed?

Really, I don't mean to rant, but they haven't really been up to par with player/company communication lately.
 
I like the idea of searching your deck for two cards and then drawing five more to start every game. That would be really cool.

But one optional mulligan would also be really nice. =\

I "enjoyed" losing to a Junior the other day with my Energy/Energy/Energy/BTS/Crobat G/Looker's Investigation/Poke-Turn start. With 12 energy in the deck (four of which are Call), my only draw card was my one Looker's. Really?

Yeah. Optional mulligans please.
 
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