Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Report - German National Championship - First Place Masters

Lawman said:
The reason I asked about the deck being changed is simple. There is a penalty for having a Legal Deck, Legal Decklist 7.3.4. The penalty is a Warning at tier 1 and 2 events. (Nats being a 2). BUT, the deck must match the list turned in and if you cannot fix the deck to match the list, then that card is removed and replaced with a basic energy (player's choice as to energy). The penalty CAN be escalated, if the HJ determines a significant advantage was gained by the "mix up".

The player is ultimately responsible for their deck and list, irregardless if the deck made it through a deck check or not!

The penalty needed to be handed down and then it could be tracked for the day and even later. Hopefully the Judge gave you the warning the error required.

Keith

---------- Post added 06/01/2010 at 01:18 PM ----------

Here is the guideline section:

7.3.4. Legal Decklist, Legal Deck
Occasionally a player’s decklist and deck meet the format restrictions and the deck construction rules but do not match. As the contents of the decklist always take priority over the contents of the deck itself, the player must modify his or her deck so that it matches the decklist. If the player is unable to provide the cards listed on the decklist, missing cards should be replaced with basic Energy cards of the player’s choice, and the decklist should be updated to reflect these changes.
As with previous categories, the Head Judge should carefully consider what advantage, if any, was gained by this error. If the Head Judge feels that there was a significant advantage or the Pokémon Organized Play Penalty Guidelines
Rev: September 1, 2009
13
error cannot be easily fixed during the match, elevating the penalty to a Game Loss may be necessary.
Examples of Deck Problems: Legal Decklist, Legal Deck include:
•
A player’s deck contains 4 Darkness Energy cards, but the decklist contains 4 Dark Metal Energy cards.
•
A player’s deck contains 4 Shelgon cards (EX Delta Species 53/113), but the decklist contains 2 Shelgon cards (EX Delta Species 53/113) and 2 Shelgon cards (EX Delta Species 54/113).
•
A player’s deck contains 3 Battle Frontier cards and 2 Cursed Stone cards, but the decklist contains 2 Battle Frontier cards and 3 Cursed Stone cards.
•
In an Unlimited event, the decklist contains four copies of Torchic (EX Ruby & Sapphire 73/109), but the deck contains four copies of Torchic (EX Ruby & Sapphire 74/109).
•
Cards in the player’s deck have been marked on, though none of the markings appear to create a marked card situation.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Warning
Tier 2: Warning
Click to expand...

It is not that "exact" in Europe. At least in Finland, we won't even do deckchecks or sleevechecks usually (excluding nats).
 
At the risk of going off topic: @Welmu, current bad practice in Europe is not an excuse. Obviously I don't know the state of current practice in Germany but I expect that Germany will be one of the top countries in Europe for how OP is run.
 
Props to Yoshi for a stellar win and an equally stellar attitude. Glad to see Lawman's as careful and considerate as always. Not glad to see Evil Psyduck suggesting that something clearly accidental was "cheating."
 
Look, I never suggested Yoshi cheated. I simply asked a Q about the deck situation and got more than a satisfactory answer. I am GLAD he went to the HJ to address the situation. The HJ makes that call. Even though it was a ACCIDENT that he put the wrong grotle in the deck to start (or used an older list....either way, an error on the player), it was fixed early on and no issues arose.

Hopefully, people can see that without involving the HJ on a situation like this can make others to wonder "what is that player doing over there, after rd 1, changing out a part of his deck???"

@iamapwdna: The guidelines are there for a REASON. Did you not read the section of text on 7.3.4?? The rule addresses this issue SPOT ON! The deck MUST match the list. He was able to find the correct Grotle quickly and fixed his deck. It is a warning only. If you knew anything about the penalty guidelines, you would understand WHY these need to be tracked. The player in this case DID make an error. It is up to the JUDGE to fix that, not the player acting on his own. In this case, Yoshi/David did the RIGHT thing and went to the HJ to explain the situation and fix it. Props to him.

As I did earlier and will do so again. Congrats on winning with a new twist on an older deck idea.

Keith
 
Honestly, I would have switched the Grotles out myself.

If caught after R1 and the player even admits it on his report, I would cut him some slack. It is obvious in this case that he was not cheating and had nothing to gain by playing a different Grotle for his R1 matchup. Giving huge, tournament-deciding penalties for an obvious mistake for which the intent was clear is wrong IMO.
 
@Box of Fail: It isn't clear from your post that a tournament changing penalty WAS NOT GIVEN.

@Everyone saying judges are harsh: maybe there are some harsh judges ( ok there are :( ) but this was not the case here.
 
how is a warning (see the penalty guidelines quoted in posts above) a 'tournament-deciding' penalty?

and if players are going to take matters into their own hands, why do we even have judges at the events?

'mom
 
It would be really nice if someone with the power to do so would move all of these posts that are irrelevant to the German Nats into a separate thread...then you all can continue the debate there and maybe we could learn more about Yoshi's deck and play stylings. I would request that the Mods role model good behavior on this.

Thanks.

-Cory
 
Lol Yoshi just edit the part about swicthing grotle's out of the report so everyone who hasn't read this yet will give you props about your awesome tourney performance instead of hassling you about grotle's.

*on topic*

So if I gathered my info correctly, you used four different Stage 2 lines (Dusknoir DP, Torterra, Flygon, Nidoquen) in a format full of disruption and SP? And you did it successfully!?

Bravo :lightning:
 
corypoke2 said:
It would be really nice if someone with the power to do so would move all of these posts that are irrelevant to the German Nats into a separate thread...then you all can continue the debate there and maybe we could learn more about Yoshi's deck and play stylings. I would request that the Mods role model good behavior on this.

Thanks.

-Cory
Click to expand...

My original Q about the changed card in the deck came straight from the OP's rd 1 summary! How is my Q not relevent to his "play style"??? It clearly is "on topic". We have congratulated the German champ also. Just asked some follow ups to HIS REPORT, not trying to hijack. No different than if someone asked him WHY torterra was used and how IMO.

Keith

---------- Post added 06/02/2010 at 10:44 AM ----------
Box of Fail said:
Honestly, I would have switched the Grotles out myself.

If caught after R1 and the player even admits it on his report, I would cut him some slack. It is obvious in this case that he was not cheating and had nothing to gain by playing a different Grotle for his R1 matchup. Giving huge, tournament-deciding penalties for an obvious mistake for which the intent was clear is wrong IMO.
Click to expand...

WOW! That tells us alot. Yoshi had the decency to go to the HJ, heck the CORRECT thing to do and you admit you would do the WRONG thing?? Did you not read 7.3.4??? It clearly states it is a WARNING when addressed between rds.

Keith
 
Keith, I think the key here, and you would agree, is that the HJ was informed about the issue, reccomended a correction, and the player complied.

I don't think your inquiry is directed at Yoshi- , as he did what a player is supposed to do in the situation. He informed the HJ, and complied with their direction.

Your inquiry appears to be directed at the HJ, which Yoshi- cannot answer.

Yoshi- Congrats on an elite win with a great deck! I wonder if you talked with Swanton1717 (Colin) about that deck?

Torterrific!!!

Vince
 
Sure, a warning. That's not really a big deal IMO. The problem would be the whole switch Grotles for Basic Energy thing, when it is so clear that there was no intent to cheat and that the wrong Grotle was written. That kind of stuff would make me simply switch the Grotles out, yes. Before everyone jumps on me, I suppose anyone suggesting this was deliberate foregoing of a penalty would be correct, but regardless, I would have done so.

All in all, I'd say Yoshi did a spectacular job of winning fair and square, and anyone suggesting otherwise due to a Grotle mixup is wrong. Kudos.
 
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BoF: the player gets to replace with the "correct" Grottle. Replacing incorrect cards with basic energies is a last resort when it is impossible to reconcile the deck and list.
 
@Vince: My initial inquiry was if Yoshi changed out the cards, since he traded for the correct Grotle. He answered that and explained what he did. You are correct in that part of my follow up suggested the HJ erred in not giving the recommended penalty, per the guidelines.

@BoF: I put that in my replies that the correct Grotle would be used 1st, only use the energy card to replace IF the correct card could not be located.

Keith
 
After reading the whole thread another time, I still fail to see where it is explicitly stated that no warning has been given. As I handled that situation I can tell you exactly what happened:

After round 1, the player came to me saying that he has just noticed that he has a wrong Grotle in his deck which is not the same as on his decklist and asked me what he would have to do about it. I said to him that he should exchange the Grotle with the right one from his decklist. He replied that he has no one and I answered that either he should find one until round 2 starts or we would have to exchange the wrong Grotle with a basic energy card and added that this is a Warning. He immediately stormed off in panic and I issued the deck check for the next round to his table just to make sure that everything works out the right way.

So, I do not see any issue here. Contrary, I think Yoshi appraoched this situation in the most appropriate way. I mean, he could have easily gone and corrected that without contacting the staff. But he wanted to make sure that he does not anything wrong.
 
Glumanda said:
After reading the whole thread another time, I still fail to see where it is explicitly stated that no warning has been given. As I handled that situation I can tell you exactly what happened:

After round 1, the player came to me saying that he has just noticed that he has a wrong Grotle in his deck which is not the same as on his decklist and asked me what he would have to do about it. I said to him that he should exchange the Grotle with the right one from his decklist. He replied that he has no one and I answered that either he should find one until round 2 starts or we would have to exchange the wrong Grotle with a basic energy card and added that this is a Warning. He immediately stormed off in panic and I issued the deck check for the next round to his table just to make sure that everything works out the right way.

So, I do not see any issue here. Contrary, I think Yoshi appraoched this situation in the most appropriate way. I mean, he could have easily gone and corrected that without contacting the staff. But he wanted to make sure that he does not anything wrong.
Click to expand...

Why didn't he say he got a warning when that was what almost all the post were about?
 
Seriously lay off the kid, he did more than what a majority of players would do by informing the head judge. @Lawman and Evil Psyduck, hindsight is 20-20 the head judge made a ruling, it was final, and it was followed, thats what we get told every year, that advice should not just be given but it should be followed.
 
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