Rock the DRAGON!(DP-LA)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by B_B_C, Aug 9, 2008.

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  1. B_B_C

    B_B_C New Member

    x4 horsea
    x2 seadra
    x4 kingdra
    x2 baltoy
    x2 claydol
    x1 pachirisu (no call)
    x1 regice

    x4 plus power
    x4 rare candy
    x4 bucks training
    x2 night maintenance
    x2 warp point
    x4 celios/bebes search
    4 roseannes resarch
    x3 team galactics wager/cynsinthia

    x17 water energy

    Start with pachi or horsea. get setup and do quick damage. Claydol for....... well you know. Regi to discard cards and to get ride of Mr.MIME. Plus power and Buck's training to do a possible 80 damage.

    Alakazam is bad.
    Metagross is ok
    Ditto is as bad as ZAM
    chatot is just...... not for this deck
     
  2. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    Looks great. DEFINITELY go with Cynthia over Wager. I agree with Pachi as well, but I would personally run 2 or 3.
     
  3. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    With only 1 Pachirisu, you're almost never going to even have the option of starting with it. I'd drop it or add more so that your odds of opening with it are better. Also, you listed Celio's alongside Bebe's as if you weren't sure which to run, but you have no choice in DP-LA since Celio's is out of the format.

    I don't see how Alakazam is bad when it can aid Kingdra's 1st attack, lock Powers and make your 3 Wagers that much more powerful. The ability to basically seal a game once you've gotten the early advantage is a nice option to have IMO.
     
  4. sandy4123

    sandy4123 New Member

    kazam is good. stop other cosmic powers
     
  5. BloodDraek

    BloodDraek New Member

    dude you just posted the list Alex gave you

    and I think regice might be the best tech for kingdra. It drops your hand for claydol, gets energy in the discard, and gets rid of Mr. Mime.
     
  6. B_B_C

    B_B_C New Member

    No I changed alot.
     
  7. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    Alakazam really is bad. With Zam, you want to discard every turn to keep their powers locked, so that means you won't always discard energy. And you want to play it against every deck because they all run Claydol.

    Regice is much more versatile because you don't need it all the time, and it really helps when ppl try to send up Mime. It also lets you discard before your attack which can pump Kingdra's first attack the turn you want to use it.
     
  8. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    Zam is horrible in kingdra. I tested it and it just doesnt' work. It throws off consistency, it wastes a candy and there is always the chance that you won't have the energy. The only good thing about it that regice doesn't have is isn't that bad of a start because of 1 retreat.
     
  9. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    Regice is useful against little besides Mime though, and I seriously do not think that card is going to be played in excess.

    You don't have to discard every turn with Alakazam, just at key times such as after you win a Wager and have them on the ropes with Kingdra. Even 1 or 2 turns w/out them Cosmic Powering could net you the win, or put you far enough ahead that comeback for them would be exceedingly difficult. It's also a good comeback tool for the Kingdra player. You only need to hit a benched Claydol 4 times with Kingdra to take it out as well, so basically you could be Power Cancelling for just those 4 turns and then once it was gone you likely wouldn't need to anymore, or at least not as regularly. Being able to simulate the whole Plox trick to me (big damage + no powers + Wager) at any point in the game is a useful option.

    I think a 1-1 line wouldn't hurt just for that ability. I don't see how this deck could play Wager and resist the Alakazam temptation.
     
  10. BloodDraek

    BloodDraek New Member

    yo brian, no plus power. I am telling you Bux is fine
     
  11. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    I wasn't aware there were decks that run NO BASIC POKEMON. lolol

    It's situational like Dusknoir. If they try to sac a Basic, you Roseanne's for Regice, put it on the bench, discard 2 and put it on the bench where it belongs.
     
  12. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    Notice how I said "little else." Modified is a format dominated by evolutions and most of the time you can expect to be up against something other than a basic, especially past the first few turns of the game.

    I'm aware of what Regice can do. Your opponent sacing basics, while certainly not an uncommon occurrence especially given this deck's speed, is likely to happen less than your opponent desperately trying to recover from your quick Kingdra via Cosmic Power though, I'd say, which Alakazam shuts right down. Or they're going to be doing both together, sacing while they try to recover. I didn't say that Regice was bad or needed to be dropped. It has its uses. I'm just saying a 1-1 Alakazam line wouldn't hurt, especially in this build which runs Wager, although if you do want to directly compare Regice to it, it can be said that Power Cancel is the more versatile Power with a more crippling effect on average, especially since your opponent gets to choose what they switch out for with Regice. Someone playing more than 1 Mime might even anticipate the Regice trick and be sure to have two in play so you couldn't even escape its effect. You also already mentioned how horrible of a starter Regice is, on the off chance you open with it, and there are plenty of other cards that will punish you for having a three-retreating bench sitter.

    Really though I think both Regice and Alakazam are viable techs with their own unique points and drawbacks. My posts were more "pro-Alakazam" than anti-anything.
     
  13. BloodDraek

    BloodDraek New Member

    ^I have done testing with alakazam, it isn't good enough since you are dumping Rare Candies for kingdras
     
  14. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    I've seen "wasting a Rare Candy" as a reason for this card being bad twice in this thread and I seriously don't understand how that is a legit reason not to play Alakazam. What about something like Dusknoir in Plox? That deck had 3 Rare Candies and 2-3 Kirlia left to work with, just like Kingdra will have 3 Rare Candies and 2-3 Seadras left. The same point could be made for any other deck that has ever run a 1-0-1 tech line, from Blastoise d to Omastar to Sceptile ex d to everything in between. If the card you're using that Candy on has perfect synergy with your deck or provides some kind of useful ability, I don't consider that Candy to be a waste at all.
     
  15. Umbreon777

    Umbreon777 New Member

    Mr. Mime is active.

    opponent says- "I use Regi Move"

    I bring out... another one! :D

    Haha, you're right. If I only have one Mime, Regice can be quite the bother. Its a good tech. And if all else fails, it gets energies in the discard.
     
  16. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    Discarding before Kingdra's attack instead of after it is a HUGE plus.
     
  17. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    Because for alakazam to be effective you need to get it out very quickly. Dusknoir and other techs that work like that are used late game. Also don't forget that gardy is more consistent so it was very easy to get it when you needed it. This you have to draw into most of the cards.
     
  18. mud mud mudkip

    mud mud mudkip New Member

    play bebes search not ceoils.
     
  19. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    Now that I've seen the deck in action, it really doesn't need Zam or Regice. Retreating and attacking with Seadra or Kingdra is plenty discard, as you'll only realistically use the first attack once, MAYBE twice a game. I think if one really wants an extra discard outlet, something like Unown ? or Felicity's will do.
     
  20. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    From the testing I've done I agree that it doesn't NEED anything for support really (aside from the obvious Claydol), although I'm still trying to make Alakazam work as well as it theoretically could. I agree it is best when it comes out early, which won't be that often, but with Wager, it can act at any point in the game like Rocket's Admin. used to (if you win the Wager anyway). I know I keep comparing the Power Cancel + Wager to different things, first Plox and now Admin., and I think both are valid comparisons. The Plox angle would be if you somehow did get it out early, and the far more likely Admin.-type scenario would be used to help cut off a comeback attempt and/or seal the deal mid to late game. I think that ability would help here since although Kingdra is great in terms of speed and cost-for-damage ratios, it isn't able to OHKO anything with any consistency (like you said, the first attack is rarely used and to OHKO a lot of stuff it will require over 10 energy in the discard anyway) and thus it becomes vulnerable to big OHKO machines that might get built up if the opponent survives the early onslaught.

    Basically the way I'm trying to use Alakazam in my build is primarily only if I sense the need to curtail a comeback/recovery. In that case I would Bebe's/Roseanne's the line out and gladly use up a Rare Candy to keep the opponent in check as well as retain my lead.
     
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